Plant Based Diet Thread

[Nobody]

I'm sure I've posted about this before, so it may look like I'm just repeating myself. But it may be an important detail worth trying for those who have tumours (like me) or recurring infection problems etc. I will however say that the scientist that Brian is referring to as an expert about fruit sugar also believes that low carb/keto is beneficial. Which is these days considered a dead end path for general health in itself and would detract from Brian's point if he had mentioned that. There are also some who have reversed cancer growth using an all fruit diet. An all fruit diet is not something I would try from the results I've got so far.




So deleting fruit may be worth a try for some period of time and then you can make up your own mind as to veracity of this claim. IMO a good test on yourself is more valid to you than high quality study results. Study results or repeated anecdotes can be a good indicator if something is worth a try. Benefit or not to you indicated by blood tests, other tests/scans or how you feel is likely going to be more important though.

[Nobody]

This is what keeps me entertained in the plant world. All the highly educated experts that disagree, all with their valid points. Not to do specifically with cancer, so my previous post doesn't need editing yet. But the next video is surely a rebuttle on the above in reference to blood glucose and diabetes.

[Nobody]

I'm not a fan of what "The Real Truth About Health" are doing lately in the way they are editing long lectures. Earlier they had two videos of lectures by Dr Cousins on how high blood cholesterol is good for brain health and that high carb diets are bad for you, with no responses. The response video is now below probably weeks later. Those videos could have easily deceived the inexperienced.

Yes I typically post videos that I may not agree with in part. But that was over the top deceptive from what I know of the body of nutritional science and so I didn't post it. I've found that whenever people use broad macronutrient terms to make health statements, they have often been deceived by the modern deceptive industry science.

People need to get back to speaking specifically about whether individual foods are better or worse than other foods and in what respects they are better or worse. In the end each food can be seen to be on various scales in comparison to other foods in regard to various aspects of health or harm. Yes, also very confusing. But at least less deceptive.

The following video is a response to to Dr Cousins video and so addresses the deception somewhat. Although I'm usually guarded about accepting everything that Dr Fuhrman says since he sells long chain omega-3 supplements. He has also been called out in the past by others for being deceptive himself in the way he presents arguments. Dr Kahn is trying to strike more of a balance between brain health versus arterial health. We need both and they are related too which makes it a very confusing topic. Differing genetic susceptibility doesn't help either. Ask 10 plant based experts and you'll probably get 10 different answers.

My father is currently in a old age home primarily due to dementia. His is caused by arterial problems as he has suffered mini-strokes since I was a child. I'm now 56 y.o. More high fat foods weren't going to help him IMO.



I'll also add that there is no strong scientific evidence that omega-3 index is strongly correlated with brain shrinkage or dementia. At least so far in the credible literature. The industry would have us believe we need an omega-3 index of 5 or more to avoid demetia, while one of the biggest blood testing bodies in the U.S (IIRC) says 3 is adequate. See the video below if you want to see another point of view from someone who is credible. Also T Colin Campbell calls DHA supplements a scam.

[Nobody]

I'm posting the video below because I think she got this wrong - possibly inadvertently - by encouraguig people to consume salt or sodium supplements. To me it sounds like she is encouraging people to add iodised salt to their diet with the goal to get people to consume more iodine.




Yes, iodine is important and can be scarce on a plant based diet. I know that my TSH had tested higher (bad) in the past and I estimated at the time that I was only getting about a quarter of the daily minimum of iodine. That is also assuming the foods actually had that amount, which may not be the case with modern farming practices. I also encourage people to take an iodine supplement if their TSH is a bit high as I believe that is better than the unknown of eating seaweed in which you won't know how much iodine you're getting. You can easily get too much iodine with seaweed, which is also a problem.

Anyway my point is that I disagree that people should be taking sodium supplements or salt. That should only be done if their blood test for sodium is low. My intake has been less than 500 mg per day long term (474 mg today) with no added salt and yet I've never tested low for sodium. In the video she says that people have been using alternative salts that don't have iodine added and therefore people are testing low with iodine. I agree that cruciferous vegetables are known to reduce absorption of iodine. Best to take your iodine separate from food for best absorption anyway.

Sodium is a vasal restrictor. It's considered to be both a short term and long term contributor to hypertension. It needs to be balanced with potassium intake with at least 5 times more potassium. That is usually only possible if sodium intake is less than 500mg/d, as in with no added salt at all. My potassium to sodium ratio today was 16:1 and my BP is typically 93/63 mm Hg. As per video below, lower sodium levels are not typically a health problem. Although some interests have tried to spread the J curve misinformation to say it is.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/sodium ... lt-debate/

On the subject of salt. Other than alternate salts that have potassium in them, alternate/"natural" salts are still just sodium cloride with other minerals in them (like iron) which give them their colour. They are no healthier and can be worse for those who like me should be avoiding iron.

The below video explains her previous video above. She recommends 3L of water a day saying that most people are dehydrated. Because of that she also recommends some sodium intake to balance all that extra hydration, otherwise the kidney will just dump it. It appears it works for her program when treating auto-immune conditions. Also it should be agreeable for most people since they are used to taking in a lot of sodium. I can't say she is wrong in light of the video below. But there is plenty of literature out there on sodium being a vasal restricter and should be avoided for those who want the lowest blood pressure, both short and long term. Those who do choose to increase their sodium may benefit from increasing their potassium intake as well since the ideal ratio is considered to be at least 5 times more potassium (which is a vasal dilator). That ratio can be difficult to achieve as the sodium increases.




ABSTRACT NOTE:
In the recent posts I've been addressing the most contentious issues in plant based nutrition, which are sodium intake and fat intake. So if you don't agree with some or all of the information in my recent posts, I totally understand. If I go back some years I would probably find I didn't agree with my position on them either. With more research what is considered optimum now for the typical person might also change.

[Nobody]

I came across the video below on beta-glucans (yeast based) which I'd never heard of before. So I looked it up in NutritionFacts to find a similar video on nutritional yeast. Something else for me to try.




Same link on NutritionFacts for the cited references if you prefer.
Benefits of nutritional yeast for cancer

Apparently according to the following study, oats doesn't really do it.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25267240/

[Nobody]

Dr Garth Davis often impresses by how much he knows about scientific methodology. He talks about some of the finer details of the Adventist and Epic Oxford studies.



He talks about 47g/d of fibre as being the expected amount a vegan should be eating a day as in the Adventist study. But the average vegan in the Epic Oxford study was only getting 28g/d. I find both to be low as I've averaged over 100g/d for years. Sometimes getting over 120g/d (like today with 125g). Legumes, whole grains and root vegetables generally have the most fibre.

People should be chasing fibre as it has hormone-like effects when processed by one's microbiome to improve satiety. In the book "How Not to Diet" on page 134 there is a diagram which I've copied below. Here Greger shows how the fibre we eat is transformed to short chain fatty acids (SCFAs) by the microbiome (gut bacteria). These SCFAs act like hormones to regulate our hunger in a cycle. When you don't eat fibre you effectively only get half the cycle, the increase food intake half. Steps 2 to 7 are missing. So try eating 100g+ of fibre a day for months and then tell me you're still overweight and getting heavier. I suppose it's possible, but hard to do IMO.

[Nobody]

In our society where the average fat intake is 32% by energy intake - the US is 40% - and the ideal is considered to be somewhere in the less than 10% range. You can see why most of our health problems are related to excesses rather than deficiencies.



I'm not sure I agree with him on everything he says about the plant sourced polyunsaturated omega-3 fats to be totally avoided because we get enough through other foods anyway. But he could turn out to be correct.

[Nobody]

Nice to see another study on the effects of artificial sweeteners. The message of we really we need to avoid these products needs to be repeated. When the subject comes up I inform people they'd probably be better off with sugar than them. However as she says, ditch all of it and eventually your taste will adjust. I drink teas and eat all my food without any form of sweetening. If you can eat raw cruciferous veg without any form of flavouring and still taste something, then your taste is well adjusted IMO.

[brumby33]

Yeah, I'm one of those who switched from sugar to stevia (bloody expensive too) but only in my coffee as I love my coffee strong.
Ok i must admit....I'm a user of what is known as bogan dust "Instant Coffee" and so i need a sweetener for that stuff......however, I can drink a Latte or flat white without sweetener at all. Sometimes it's hit n miss at a coffee shop depending on who's making it....then last but not least, Japanese green tea, absolutely love the subtle taste without any additives, just pure matcha tea, and all the other Asian teas too like Oolong and Jasmin teas but when it comes to English tea....it's bloody awful without milk or sweetener.
I'm trying, but it's a slow work in progress but I know I must can the sweetener, sugar and or honey very soon.

I'm trying to slow down on dairy, gotta have milk in Coffee, what's your opinion on these alternative milks such as rice milk, almond milks, soy milk and oat milk, I mean they really shouldn't use the word Milk as they are not, but in many cases many of the brands have only a small percentage of the host ingredient like under 15% and the rest is probably water.....I do like the taste of the rice milk and the original soy milk but many of them like oat milks have a very woody or cardboard like taste.

cheers

brumby33

[Nobody]

PCRM fact sheet - Artificial sweeteners.

I'm trying to slow down on dairy, gotta have milk in Coffee, what's your opinion on these alternative milks such as rice milk, almond milks, soy milk and oat milk, I mean they really shouldn't use the word Milk as they are not, but in many cases many of the brands have only a small percentage of the host ingredient like under 15% and the rest is probably water.....I do like the taste of the rice milk and the original soy milk but many of them like oat milks have a very woody or cardboard like taste.

Any of the substitute milks are better than dairy. I used to buy rice milk as it was the lowest in fat. Keep in mind that calcium fortification isn't an advantage as studies have shown that calcium suppliments tend to induce more heart attacks. The need for extra calcium is a dairy marketing gimick. If you want stronger bones, exercise more.

Ultimately, it's better to eventually migrate away from all milks - including plant milks - as they are all processed foods and of no meaningful nutritional value IMO. I haven't comsumed them for about 5 years. If people want better health, it's more benficial to remove harmful foods, than to chase more nutrients.

PCRM fact sheet - Health concerns about dairy.

[brumby33]

PCRM fact sheet - Artificial sweeteners.

I'm trying to slow down on dairy, gotta have milk in Coffee, what's your opinion on these alternative milks such as rice milk, almond milks, soy milk and oat milk, I mean they really shouldn't use the word Milk as they are not, but in many cases many of the brands have only a small percentage of the host ingredient like under 15% and the rest is probably water.....I do like the taste of the rice milk and the original soy milk but many of them like oat milks have a very woody or cardboard like taste.

Any of the substitute milks are better than dairy. I used to buy rice milk as it was the lowest in fat. Keep in mind that calcium fortification isn't an advantage as studies have shown that calcium suppliments tend to induce more heart attacks. The need for extra calcium is a dairy marketing gimick. If you want stronger bones, exercise more.

Ultimately, it's better to eventually migrate away from all milks - including plant milks - as they are all processed foods and of no meaningful nutritional value IMO. I haven't comsumed them for about 5 years. If people want better health, it's more benficial to remove harmful foods, than to chase more nutrients.

PCRM fact sheet - Health concerns about dairy.

Fair enough but i wasn't drinking milk for the calcium intake, it was more to do with the flavour and texture or maybe i should say thickness due to the fat content.
The so called lite milk is higher in sugar and skim higher again.
But skim is like putting white water in my coffee.

[Nobody]

With contentious issues in the plant centric world, I like posting both sides of the story. That way everyone knows that I'm not posting to my own confirmation biased leanings. As usual, I don't necessarily agree with everything I post either.

[Nobody]

I'm not a fan of what "The Real Truth About Health" are doing lately in the way they are editing long lectures. Earlier they had two videos of lectures by Dr Cousins on how high blood cholesterol is good for brain health and that high carb diets are bad for you, with no responses.

Another video to rebuke the Dr Cousins video that I didn't post because it was too deceptive.

[warthog1]

Yeah, I'm one of those who switched from sugar to stevia (bloody expensive too) but only in my coffee as I love my coffee strong.
Ok i must admit....I'm a user of what is known as bogan dust "Instant Coffee" and so i need a sweetener for that stuff.....

No wonder you need sugar, bogan dust just aint coffee. Yuk! Sugar as well- double yuk!!

Do yourself a favour, get a grinder and a coffee machine. Start drinking coffee instead.

[Nobody]

Do yourself a favour, get a grinder and a coffee machine. Start drinking coffee instead.

People should consider the same for flax/linseeds as well. Polyunsaturated omega 3 and 6 fats are considered to be unstable molecules. One of the reasons that oils go rancid. Or why you shouldn't cook with linseed oil. Yet we found preground linseeds sitting on the supermarket shelf, unrefrigerated. Who knows how long they've been ground for.

So I bought a spice and nut grinder and buy my linseeds whole. I only grind enough for a week or so and keep it in the fridge.

[warthog1]

Do yourself a favour, get a grinder and a coffee machine. Start drinking coffee instead.

People should consider the same for flax/linseeds as well. Polyunsaturated omega 3 and 6 fats are considered to be unstable molecules. One of the reasons that oils go rancid. Or why you shouldn't cook with linseed oil. Yet we found preground linseeds sitting on the supermarket shelf, unrefrigerated. Who knows how long they've been ground for.

So I bought a spice and nut grinder and buy my linseeds whole. I only grind enough for a week or so and keep it in the fridge.

Fair point.
I have jave been using ground linseed on my morning oats with dates and soy milk for years now. Get it from Coles as their branded product. Doesn't smell or taste off but I have never tried freshly ground.
It is is in a snaplock bag which may help keep it fresher.

[Nobody]

IMO fresh ground doesn't taste much different. In my case a bit coarser. Price is about the same or cheaper. I used to use Coles ground as well.

Commercially processed veg oils according to the video in the post below are bad for you because of oxidised elements. But you can't usually taste it in them either. So maybe taste and smell aren't good tests for the integrity of polyunsaturated fats. I'm just trying to be safe because I can't afford to make any more mistakes.

https://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/view ... 5#p1604503

Got some blood taken today for tests, so should have more results in a couple of weeks. Not expecting good results, but I may be surprised.

[baabaa]

Laxaþjóð | A Salmon Nation | Patagonia Films

[Nobody]

Baabaa, you could probably post that in the environmental thread if you haven't done it already. My family eat farmed salmon about every week. They wouldn't watch that video and can't be told of what a con farmed salmon is. Confirmation bias, mild addiction and wanting to avoid cognitive dissonance IMO.

Anyway, the important message about the below video is addiction.

[Nobody]

Below video is mainly to do with fasting and hypertension. Surprisingly this isn't by Goldhamer. He correctly states that anything above 110/70 mm Hg is increased risk. He states fasting cures hypertension while fasting, so makes the obvious link that it must be what the hypertension susceptible people are eating that is causing the problem.



For those who don't want to fast, but want to be sure it's their diet. I suggest you eat nothing but sweet potatoes with nothing added and drink only water for a week. Check your BP before starting, then after the week.

[Nobody]

OK, this is why I'm perpetually confused when it comes to whole plant fat intake. If you watch the two videos below you'll see what I mean. The first one only needs to be watched from 02:15 to 10:00. The second one probably best to watch the whole thing. They both make some big claims and claim to have evidence to show that they are correct. They also agree with each other. But they obviously disagree with the low fat plant based people who have cardiac improvement evidence on their side. It must vary with people because when I tried high flax/chia seeds, my cholesterol went up a lot and I felt more lethargic. However my blood pressure never went up, which is a claim made by Udo. But I'm willing to somewhat try again with at least enough flaxseed/linseed to get my omega-6 to omega-3 more balanced than it currently is. I do get dry skin on my forearms.





If you try more omega-3 dominant plant fats - because they all still have other types of fat in them too, including saturated - it's probably a good idea to monitor your weight and get a blood test after some time to see how you're going.

[Nobody]

One in three Australians have high blood pressure. Here’s how to reduce it - SMH


Articles like the above still interests me as I want to see if they got it right. Not a bad article, but IMO they could have been more accurate in two areas.

The Heart Foundation defines normal blood pressure as below 120/80 mm Hg.

But normal doesn't mean low risk. To reduce risk ratio to 1 - no added risk - it needs to be 110/70 or lower. Maybe they thought telling people the truth may be too confronting or disagree with too many other popular sources.
My reference is in this post by Jeff Novick.

What leads to high blood pressure?
All arteries stiffen over time, leading blood pressure to climb steadily as people age.

Only generally true in countries where poor diets are the norm. This video explains that that isn't true if the diet is optimal. As they got older, their blood pressure went down. My case is the same since my systolic and diastolic have both slowly dropped by at least 20 mm Hg over the last decade. Other than the first few weeks, it appears to be a long, slow process to lower BP more. But then it took a long time to get higher too.

[Nobody]

The part on sodium may interest some. Especially those like me who generally avoid added salt of any kind.

[Nobody]

The below video is about carb to fat balance, but at the end it is also about - one of my favourite subjects - omega 6 to 3 balance and how individual that can be.




Optimal diet is about balance and dosing to suit an individual. That requires learning and then correct application. Often using trial and error. Easier said than done.

The above is why most people's health is a mess by 50+. They usually haven't got close to getting the balance right.

[Nobody]

Omega 3 & DHA - VegSource

I've probably posted some of VegSource's videos in the past on DHA supplements. This article is a bit more detailed than them and has some info I haven't seen before.

I tried some DHA supplements some years ago and also found I had prostate issues while taking them. Since then I've never recommended them.

Some of the other articles on VegSource under "Plant-Based-Diet" may also be of interest. I thought the "Super Foods" article was interesting and funny. But I didn't agree with it entirely. While I agree that the "Super Foods" label is stupid, misleading and pushed by suppliers/industry, I've found that those with health issues still may benefit more from some plant foods than others. As I've seen some stark differences in my blood test results depending on what I've eaten in the weeks beforehand.

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T. Colin Campbell taking on why the medical system is not getting the results it should be.