The training thread: How was yours? (today/yesterday/etc)

[g-boaf]

Might have a look if I get a chance on call.
Just droned along on some new routes yesterday doing pretend ks.
Still, there was no drivers to watch out for or pedestrians wandering aimlessly along blocking the entire path.
I am only at level 32 as I only do it when away at work. It seems to level up more quickly now though.
I went through 75% of a level in 60 something ks.

It’s easy to level up at lower levels traditionally, then gets harder after about 45 or used to.

Zwift also changed the algorithm because people at lower levels were whinging that it takes too long to reach level 60, now you increased maximum to 100, waaaah!

And all those people are already going near level
100, waaaah! They seem to forget a lot of those folk ride big distances on Zwift or are regular ride leaders so that’s while they have so many XP.

I didn’t agree with the algorithm changes, but they must keep paying customers happy.

I didn’t intend to ride Zwift much during the holidays but the weather is so unpredictable - just looks like rain at a moment’s notice.

[warthog1]

^^thanks for the explanation.
It has taken me 2 years to get to level 32 and I seriously couldn't give a rat's about levels.
I only ride it when I can't otherwise ride.
I just noticed yesterday how quickly that bar for the new level travelled.
Seemed a lot quicker than it had previously.

[vbplease]

Zwift also changed the algorithm because people at lower levels were whinging that it takes too long to reach level 60, now you increased maximum to 100, waaaah!

Really?? I know I shouldn't be surprised.. but really, its hard to fathom the childish (entitled?) minds of people out there, who are at adult age.. they can't accept a simple process of working through the levels, thinking they should be at the top? Not to mention all the other form of cheaters out there.

I hope they move the goal post to level 200.. they'll have to, otherwise all the people at 100 will get bored?

[g-boaf]

^^thanks for the explanation.
It has taken me 2 years to get to level 32 and I seriously couldn't give a rat's about levels.
I only ride it when I can't otherwise ride.
I just noticed yesterday how quickly that bar for the new level travelled.
Seemed a lot quicker than it had previously.

It was changed only recently when the Level 100 extensions were released.

I hope they move the goal post to level 200.. they'll have to, otherwise all the people at 100 will get bored?

Personally I hope they don't, I would prefer more meaningful things like more routes in Watopia, especially big HC climbs, but unfortunately the majority of "sprinter" types hate those and whinge loudly about anything that has hills. They like thundering along at the end of a Zwift race with a big sprint and get very upset when they cannot do that because some light riders got away on hills. You have no idea how much some of them whine and whinge. Heck, the pace dynamics had to be changed because they didn't like that a pack works together and can shut down solo breakaways, so the pace dynamics was modified to make groups of riders slower.

If you are in a group and managed to attain say 44km/h, watch as you go through the pack, you will get braked to the speed of the people ahead in the pack.

[jasonc]

If you are in a group and managed to attain say 44km/h, watch as you go through the pack, you will get braked to the speed of the people ahead in the pack.

yeah this is stupid

[g-boaf]

If you are in a group and managed to attain say 44km/h, watch as you go through the pack, you will get braked to the speed of the people ahead in the pack.

yeah this is stupid

It messes up the experience for lighter riders as they are stuck at the back of a group and then it becomes a series of sprints for them. While in real life it’s totally different.

All so the racers can win with a solo breakaway easier. but the racers have a loud voice and a lot of influence so they get what they want.

They also rather rudely criticise the non racers who dare to complain about this.

[jasonc]

If you are in a group and managed to attain say 44km/h, watch as you go through the pack, you will get braked to the speed of the people ahead in the pack.

yeah this is stupid

It messes up the experience for lighter riders as they are stuck at the back of a group and then it becomes a series of sprints for them. While in real life it’s totally different.

All so the racers can win with a solo breakaway easier. but the racers have a loud voice and a lot of influence so they get what they want.

They also rather rudely criticise the non racers who dare to complain about this.

i just keep remembering it's a computer game, and people cheat, and I'm only on there for my fitness. everything else is BS

[vbplease]

It messes up the experience for lighter riders as they are stuck at the back of a group and then it becomes a series of sprints for them. While in real life it’s totally different.

All so the racers can win with a solo breakaway easier. but the racers have a loud voice and a lot of influence so they get what they want.

I haven't done a race in a while, but when I did I noticed there were quite a few mountain style races in there.. isn't this the case anymore?

I think my peak 20min power still stands from a mountain style race I did quite a few years ago.. nothing pushes me like a zwift race.

They also rather rudely criticise the non racers who dare to complain about this.

Is this on the zwift forum?

[g-boaf]

It messes up the experience for lighter riders as they are stuck at the back of a group and then it becomes a series of sprints for them. While in real life it’s totally different.

All so the racers can win with a solo breakaway easier. but the racers have a loud voice and a lot of influence so they get what they want.

I haven't done a race in a while, but when I did I noticed there were quite a few mountain style races in there.. isn't this the case anymore?

I think my peak 20min power still stands from a mountain style race I did quite a few years ago.. nothing pushes me like a zwift race.

They also rather rudely criticise the non racers who dare to complain about this.

Is this on the zwift forum?

Mostly short and flat races because everyone likes flat courses and sprinting. Hilly courses aren’t popular with the majority crowd.

Also a big problem with sandbagging in categories too. Folks cruise along then unleash a big sprint to get a win but are mindful to not do too high power to get bumped into next category.

[Mr Purple]

Ah, Zwift Racing. I'm technically A+ now so am tempted to give it a try again at some stage to see if they've fixed it.

Several problems with it:
- Categories are based on W/kg over 20 minutes with is exactly the sort of metric that doesn't determine how well you'll do in a race.
- Almost inevitably pan flat. So won by the heaviest rider who fits in your W/kg category.
- 20 minute power is inevitable because it takes next to no power to stay in the pack, and the race is won by who has the best sprint over the last 15 seconds.
- A break is impossible. The one race I won was on the London course that includes the 2km odd 'Box Hill' not far before the finish. Pretty much the only time I ever succeeded with a solo breakaway.
- Everyone sandbags. And everyone that doesn't sandbag is lying about their weight.

I quit because I found it a very toxic environment. And I was was in A grade so there was no sandbagging. It'd be heartbreaking in B or C grade.

[g-boaf]

Ah, Zwift Racing. I'm technically A+ now so am tempted to give it a try again at some stage to see if they've fixed it.

Several problems with it:
- Categories are based on W/kg over 20 minutes with is exactly the sort of metric that doesn't determine how well you'll do in a race.
- Almost inevitably pan flat. So won by the heaviest rider who fits in your W/kg category.
- 20 minute power is inevitable because it takes next to no power to stay in the pack, and the race is won by who has the best sprint over the last 15 seconds.
- A break is impossible. The one race I won was on the London course that includes the 2km odd 'Box Hill' not far before the finish. Pretty much the only time I ever succeeded with a solo breakaway.
- Everyone sandbags. And everyone that doesn't sandbag is lying about their weight.

I quit because I found it a very toxic environment. And I was was in A grade so there was no sandbagging. It'd be heartbreaking in B or C grade.

Adding to that, the race is also won by whoever has the most favourable power meter and trainer combination. Oh, and who can do microbursting the best. The Sisu lot asked me ages ago if I wanted to race in their team. I politely declined. Zwift for me is about riding when I want and supplementing real world riding when that's not possible. I don't want the toxic racing environment.

Just make yourself 45kg and 150cm tall and you'll be set, like the guy yesterday who was doing climb portal efforts at 6.5w/kg. I was later told by one of my racing buddies he got excluded from an A-grade race. This guy I calculated at 45kg. Australian as well. I won't name him but have screenshots from Zwift and Zwiftpower.

if they want me in a race, it had better have three HC climbs on it and be 110km long. That will never happen, too much pancake flat "Tiny Races". The races are won by a massive 5 minute flat out blast from the start then hang on then whichever 90kg rider can smash the most watts for the sprint.

Look at what C and B grade 5 minute power is... That's dodgy as heck.

[Mr Purple]

Their sprint was always the giveaway. So you’re 52kg and have a 1500W 15 second sprint? I’m fairly sure that’s not the case.

The lack of rotation or variation in events also killed me. I have a limited window to ride in - and the events in that window never changed from week to week.

[Mr Purple]

A friendly reminder to recalibrate your power meter pedals occasionally, particularly if you just crashed last weekend.

Have been a little bit down on power since coming back from a week of gravel riding, but low sided last weekend including a minor scratch to the Garmin power meter pedals.

Got about 3km into the usual Friday 'Cootha Back' and looked down and saw I was averaging 100W where it would normally be about 160W at that point (the first bit's downhill). Stopped and recalibrated and sure enough they were off by -7 (Nm I think was the unit).

Suddenly all the missing power came back. Where I was previously struggling to exceed 300W, 800-900W was again on the menu. Crazy how much of a difference it made, particularly with the spikes!

Still not a fantastic Cootha Back but that was probably down to the conditions. Still an extra 30W up on last week though and five seconds faster, only 15-20W off my usual.

Phew. Thought I was going to have to buy a steel frame and grow a beard there for a while.

[warthog1]

My Garmin head unit prompts me to recalibrate them every ride.
If I don't it can give L<>R balance that is way off.
Compared to you I prob do need an old heavy bike and a beard.
Unfortunately I can only grow a goatee and have a more than passing resemblance to Catweasel if I do so.
Particularly after a night shift.

[g-boaf]

Today because weather is rubbish - 42km with the A grade group on Zwift (not too bad because only 10 people), then later this afternoon the B grade CycleNation 100km death march.

It was advertised 3.2-4.0w/kg but got pretty spicy for the first 50km then settled down when all the flyers quit half way, then it dropped to 3.2-3.5w/kg where the pace remained. Everyone stayed together very well.

Bloody dead now!

[jasonc]

physio said i'm allowed to start running again. heart rate is getting better on the bike. now just need to drop the kgs, and up the power. running will help with both

[vbplease]

I was contemplating doing a climbing Zwift race tonight.. yes I finally found a hilly one
But Zwift seems to enforced me to category b.. what the heck?
I’ve no idea how this has happened?
A) I haven’t done a race in forever..
B) all my rides lately have been very low power endurance rides.. except for one go at Alpert du Zwift
C) my watts/kg aren’t that great at the moment anyway.. maybe an ftp of 250@70kg

So now I can only race cat b, which I know I’m definitely not, while the sandbagging cheats get around it?? I think I’m done with Zwift

[warthog1]

I can't see why you'd bother racing on it sorry.
People with dodgy weights on there are rife. It bears no relationship to an actual race as a measure of cycling ability.
It is make believe.
Just there for when you cant otherwise ride and nothing more imo.
You can probably do some structured training on it if you are interested but competing would be an exercise in frustration due to the cheating.

[vbplease]

I can't see why you'd bother racing on it sorry.
People with dodgy weights on there are rife. It bears no relationship to an actual race as a measure of cycling ability.
It is make believe.
Just there for when you cant otherwise ride and nothing more imo.
You can probably do some structured training on it if you are interested but competing would be an exercise in frustration due to the cheating.

The only reason I’d like to race on Zwift is to be pushed by others of a similar ability.. I find it motivating to have others just ahead to catch up to or break away from others behind.. just like in real life.

I honestly don’t care about winning a race. I probably wouldn’t even look at the placing.. I’d just assess my own power

I just find it really bizarre that Zwift has now excluded me from the only races I’m interested in.. there’s other platforms (fulgaz, roovy etc) I can use.. but Zwift has just killed the only feature which makes it unique I.e. interaction during a race

[warthog1]

I can't see why you'd bother racing on it sorry.
People with dodgy weights on there are rife. It bears no relationship to an actual race as a measure of cycling ability.
It is make believe.
Just there for when you cant otherwise ride and nothing more imo.
You can probably do some structured training on it if you are interested but competing would be an exercise in frustration due to the cheating.

The only reason I’d like to race on Zwift is to be pushed by others of a similar ability.. I find it motivating to have others just ahead to catch up to or break away from others behind.. just like in real life.

I honestly don’t care about winning a race. I probably wouldn’t even look at the placing.. I’d just assess my own power

I just find it really bizarre that Zwift has now excluded me from the only races I’m interested in.. there’s other platforms (fulgaz, roovy etc) I can use.. but Zwift has just killed the only feature which makes it unique I.e. interaction during a race

Fair enough.
You can do that on some of the pace partner rides. A few will attack up a hill and then try to stay away.
Any of the longer climbs will have someone going a similar speed or a bit faster as a pacing tool.
Yeah haven't tried any racing.

[g-boaf]

The robopacer rides are not the same as a race where people really push.

The idea of a robopacer ride is to stay with the group and people get annoyed at folks pushing the pace at the front, particularly the people who are struggling to stay at the back of the group.

Even the fast guys in the Constance group (who I know in real life are properly fast) are good at sticking to the group pace.

I was contemplating doing a climbing Zwift race tonight.. yes I finally found a hilly one
But Zwift seems to enforced me to category b.. what the heck?
I’ve no idea how this has happened?
A) I haven’t done a race in forever..
B) all my rides lately have been very low power endurance rides.. except for one go at Alpert du Zwift
C) my watts/kg aren’t that great at the moment anyway.. maybe an ftp of 250@70kg

So now I can only race cat b, which I know I’m definitely not, while the sandbagging cheats get around it?? I think I’m done with Zwift

You need to look at category enforcement- compare your power versus the category limits. And not just 20 minute power. This was brought in to stop sandbagging. But it will be improved with results based system as well. It’s badly needed.

At the moment it still isn’t well tuned for riders with light weight and higher watts/kg.

Zwift used to enforce me into A grade races only, but I didn’t bother because they all amount to a 5 minute flat out blast off the start, then cruise around for rest of race and final 5 minute blast and sprint at the end. IE, they are all set up for the big sized sprinters.

Let’s see your power figures from the pause screen. At the moment, 250/70kg is B category power as they’ve told you.

Edit: I see you have posted the same on Zwift forum.

[warthog1]

The robopacer rides are not the same as a race where people really push.

The idea of a robopacer ride is to stay with the group and people get annoyed at folks pushing the pace at the front, particularly the people who are struggling to stay at the back of the group.

Even the fast guys in the Constance group (who I know in real life are properly fast) are good at sticking to the group pace.

Yeah sure it probably is. Regardless, multiple times on the B group pacer ride people have ridden away up a hill and stayed away for a period of time.
If you are after an effort that is one place you can sometimes find one imo.
As a 55 yo neverwas the b grade pace group is a steady effort but if there is a group who rides away up a climb and stays at over 4w/kg it is harder.
Faster riders like yourself and Mr P would need something else.

[g-boaf]

The best group ride used to be the old Anquetil robopacer group at 4.2w/kg steady with the robopacer at 65kg weight.

This group used to always do Epic KOM and sometimes radio tower climb, but unfortunately the key people in charge of the robopacer decided that this was too hard so they made the A grade robot 78kg and gave it 315-345w power and always on the flattest routes to cater for the favoured customers of Zwift (ie, not the light weight folk).

[warthog1]

The best group ride used to be the old Anquetil robopacer group at 4.2w/kg steady with the robopacer at 65kg weight.

This group used to always do Epic KOM and sometimes radio tower climb, but unfortunately the keep people in charge of the robopacer decided that this was too hard so they made the A grade robot 78kg and gave it 315-345w power and always on the flattest routes to cater for the favoured customers of Zwift (ie, not the light weight folk).

I did about 50k with an A grade one about 18 months ago. Needed the draft assistance that was there back then. No huge climbs on it either.

Bit too hard for me and I am definitely getting slower not faster. Seeing the speed drop away over the last few years.
Oh well, still enjoy getting out on the real bike, just different goals than I had. Have to let the speed be what it is or isn't.

[g-boaf]

The best group ride used to be the old Anquetil robopacer group at 4.2w/kg steady with the robopacer at 65kg weight.

This group used to always do Epic KOM and sometimes radio tower climb, but unfortunately the keep people in charge of the robopacer decided that this was too hard so they made the A grade robot 78kg and gave it 315-345w power and always on the flattest routes to cater for the favoured customers of Zwift (ie, not the light weight folk).

I did about 50k with an A grade one about 18 months ago. Needed the draft assistance that was there back then. No huge climbs on it either.

Bit too hard for me and I am definitely getting slower not faster. Seeing the speed drop away over the last few years.
Oh well, still enjoy getting out on the real bike, just different goals than I had. Have to let the speed be what it is or isn't.

Yep, that’s getting older! I feel slow as heck some days - others I’m good. Don’t recover so quickly any more.

Nowadays I seek out the hilly rides no matter what. Always at least a certain elevation percentage for each ride.