pedalling technique and leg muscles

[the dang]

Hi Guys

I have been commuting to work a few times a week for a few months now. I noticed that the main muscle which is sore/tight after riding is in my thighs (quads) but there is hardly any noticable ache or tightness in the hamstrings. Is this normal for cycling or is my pedalling technique possibly not correct causing the quads to work most (I am assuming my quads are working harder hence the more noticable ache).

If it is normal for the quads to work hardest, then should I do other hamstring exercises to balance out the muscles? Because I have noticed some development in the quads but no change really in the hammies since cycling.

Also, are there any tips or links to resources on what is and how to develop good pedalling technique.

Cheers

The Dang

[brendancg]

I am having trouble with my hamstrings at the moment due to lack of stretching after a ride. Cycling tends to shorten hamstrings. If you have cleats or lock your feet into the pedals by some method you may find some tiredness in the quads as you pull up on the pedals. I would suggest stretching both hamstrings and quads as well as hip flexors and lower back before and after each ride.

[JV911]

pedalling technique? you're opening a can of worms asking a question like that a quick google will give a million results but as they say, opinions are like a***holes...eveyone has one

is your seat high enough? </opens another can of worms>

check out some of the online calculators for a rough guide. if the consensus is that it is too low, maybe start by increasing your seat height by no more than 5mm at a time

[toolonglegs]

You pedal how you pedal...what do you think is wrng with your technique?...sounds like a bike fit problem to me.

[the dang]

Hi guys

Thanks for the replies...regarding seat height, I set it using the heel on the pedal technique so that when the ball of my foot is on the pedal at the bottom of the stroke, my knee is slightly bent.

I guess the main question I was trying to ask is..."is the main muscle recruited, the quads?" - if the answer is yes, then that is probably why my quads burn the most when cycling, and if the answer is no, then maybe something is not right with me or my bike causing my ache specifically in my quads and less elsewhere.

and then also, if it is normal for quads to work hardest, should I balance out the development with say calf and ham string specific exercises.

Also just to note, its not like my quads hurt like they are injured, rather its like the pain you get after training any muscle. But to reiterate why I posted, my quads seem to feel this post training muscle soreness noticably more than any other leg muscle.

Anyway thanks for replying and I will try and read some google stuff....

[casual_cyclist]

Not saying this is right, but my calves are the most sore after riding.

[heliage]

Got same sort of thing as well, quads always seem to go out before anything else...

I guess it could just be that your quads are not as fit as your calves, in relation to the amount of work their doing. You can easily check if their still doing something by just putting your hand to your calf, if its hot, then its working hard.

And no expert here, but just adding muscle mass to a muscle that isnt working hard enough at the moment, will just hurt your power to weight ratio? When it is stressed when you ride more then your used to it'll naturally adapt and develop.

[eucryphia]

My theory is it moves around over time. The quads are the biggest muscle so they're the ones that hurt now. Eventually they will adapt and get stronger, when they do, some other muscle will become the limiting factor, it might not even be in the legs, perhaps an hip muscle or arm.

When my quads fully adapted I had trouble with my upper back/shoulder, I had to remember to keep my back straight. Then I went through a period when my hip would 'click' when trying to maintain a high cadence (front crank rpm). In between my quads would get sore again for a time.

At the moment I get sore leg and hip joints, where the tendons join my bones, my wife (takes x-rays for a living) says in old-farts like me, the tendons take longer to adapt and get stronger than muscles.

I find I need to take a week off riding occasionally or I begin a slow decline.

So ride until you puke, taking the odd week off should keep you good and sore all over, at least you'll know you're alive

[heliage]

could it also depend on if your clipped into your pedals or not? It feels like most of my downstroke is coming from my quads and cause I don't clip in nothings used on the upstroke at all.

[tallywhacker]

one thing I read a while ago is that it is the hamstring that does most of the work when pedaling.
Two things I have found to help with leg strength
1. when brushing my teeth in the morning before I ride is I do single leg squats 4 sets of 20 on each leg (most probably brush my teeth too long)
2. when going up a hill I stay in the saddle

maybe right, maybe wrong but it seems to work for me

[the dang]

again, thanks for all your input.

Yeah I do ride with toe clips and straps but sometimes they are on fairly loose (when I am stop starting or in heavy traffic). Also I noticed even with the straps I still focus mainly pushing on the down stroke. I read about people saying with some form of pedal retention you are able to also pull up on the up stroke but I found when I tried this I don't put nearly as much effort in the down stroke. Its kinda like I go from one extreme to the other....maybe thats an area of pedalling technique I can improve upon.

But anyway I guess what doesnt kill my quads will make them stronger.

Tallywhacker, that is quite interesting to me, and the reason I asked the question in the first place. In my very limited knowledge of cycling and the how cycling relates to the body, I always thought quads cos its like a pushing action which I thought recruited the quads. But then I was just thinking recently, I always thought my quads were the strongest muscle in my legs and my weakeness was calves and hammies, so why do my quads seem to ache most.

Anyways I guess whatever it is, I'll just keep riding...

[Nobody]

I suppose if you just get enough experiences here you may be able to form an opinion, so here goes...

To start with, if you use the heel on pedal technique you're likely got your saddle too low. Personally, my inseam is 82. According to the 109% method I should have a saddle height of 89.4cm, but am currently using 90.6cm. See:
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/techni ... ight-14608
Trial and error is likely going to be the way that works for most.

Then there is the for/aft position. Some people use the KOPS (knee on pedal spindle) method to determine this. I like to play with this variable so have had my saddle as far back as 30mm behind KOPS which seemed to produce peak power well but didn't seem good for my knees. Currently it is 10mm behind KOPS and I think I may move it forward further. I've read moving the saddle back engages the hamstring more. Below are some links to Steve Hogg's bike fit articles. You may be able to glean something from it.
http://www.cyclefitcentre.com/further%20reading.htm
http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness.php? ... e_position

As for pedaling technique itself, here is a general article:
http://www.topbike.com.au/pdfs/colson-b ... ug2002.pdf

My quads also hurt the most while pedaling hard. I hardly notice anything else. I suppose you could compare it a bit to stair climbing just with less force. Most people would expect their quads to get sore first if stair climbing.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

I would suggest that if a rider is consistently having problems with one particular muscle/muscle group becoming sore, or fatigued well before others, then it's a good sign that bike fit is not right.

[PeterG]

Try moving your seat back a cm or so. I had the same problem before I started experimenting.
Knee over pedal axle just doesnt work for me.

[casual_cyclist]

I would suggest that if a rider is consistently having problems with one particular muscle/muscle group becoming sore, or fatigued well before others, then it's a good sign that bike fit is not right.

+1

[USM TOM]

my quads are always the 1st muscles to get sore
i dont any soreness in my calves at all

[Andrew69]

Not saying this is right, but my calves are the most sore after riding.

Try moving your cleat towards the rear of the shoe slightly.
Dont forget to drop your seat height slightly as well to compensate.

[casual_cyclist]

Not saying this is right, but my calves are the most sore after riding.

Try moving your cleat towards the rear of the shoe slightly.
Dont forget to drop your seat height slightly as well to compensate.

err... yeah... about that... I am not actually using clipless pedals. I am still old school and am riding an 18 year old bike with clips and straps. I was told a number of times of the 200km ride that I 'need' to get 'proper' shoes. However, I finished the ride comfortably, so that is obviously not true. Would 'proper' shoes and clipless pedals be more comfortable? Dunno. I have never used them. I am looking at them atm and will report back with the results. Also, when I say the most sore, my calves are not sore as in pain, but more that out of all my muscles they are the ones I can feel the most. You ride 200km and you are going to feel it somewhere

[Nobody]

err... yeah... about that... I am not actually using clipless pedals.

Oh the shame of not wearing clipless. Yes, I too aspire to wearing clipless pedal/shoes and therefore becoming a "real" cyclist.

[casual_cyclist]

err... yeah... about that... I am not actually using clipless pedals.

Oh the shame of not wearing clipless. Yes, I too aspire to wearing clipless pedal/shoes and therefore becoming a "real" cyclist.

sigh! I know. I really don't see what the big deal is. I didn't experience much discomfort from my regular shoes and clips/straps pedals on my 200km ride. I am of the "if it aint broke, don't fix it" school of thought. That said, I will try on some 'real' shoes and see how they feel.

[lemmiwinks]

That said, I will try on some 'real' shoes and see how they feel.

I only wear regular shoes for most of my riding, however the big advantage of clipless IME is hills. No flex in the soles = more power to the wheel. I could really feel it on the hills the first time I used them.

[Nobody]

That said, I will try on some 'real' shoes and see how they feel.

I only wear regular shoes for most of my riding, however the big advantage of clipless IME is hills. No flex in the soles = more power to the wheel. I could really feel it on the hills the first time I used them.

There should be something to this but it would be great if people could put a real figure on it, like stiff shoes give me X and clipless shoes/pedals give me Y over using Z while doing A.

As I've been saying I'm going to try to measure the benefit in the future.

So far the plan is to use a fluid trainer to:
One ride start with flat pedals and swap half way through the ride to SPDs.
The next ride start on SPDs then swap to flats half way though.

If I keep repeating this process and averaging the figures I should eliminate variances between good and bad days as well differences between different parts of the ride. When I've done enough rides to satisfy myself of the consistency of the recorded data I'll likely post it.

[Missy24]

Good Pedalling Technique, check out www.roadbikerider.com

It has 29 Pro Cycling Secrets for Roadies

As a newbie to cycling I found it interesting and it gave me further information to ask more question, so check it out... oh and you need to sign up for the news letter to down load it!

I loved learning how to use cleats... especially the falling off part!

[waynohh]

First order of business is upgrade to pedal system that you can apply power on the full crank rotation or as near as possible, not just the down stroke. Without the proper equipment it will be impossible to develop proper technique. If you can't power on the up stroke using your calves, hamstrings and glutes you're using less than half your leg and that's why your quads hurt.

The last thing you and we want is you doing yourself injury.

You can get reasonably priced pedals and stiff soled shoes that you can walk in for about $200 and your knees and everything else will thank you later.

Example:
PD-520 - 380g with cleats - $51
OR
PD-M520 - 430g with cleats - $40
AND
SJ-M122 - 653g - $125
Plus about $35 shipping
Total $200. Of course you'd want to know your size before ordering shoes online though, or buy them from Anaconda or somewhere like that instead.


Personally, only my rear leg muscle groups ever twinge - calves, hamstring and glutes. I never climb standing up to save my knees.

[Ant.]

First order of business is upgrade to pedal system that you can apply power on the full crank rotation or as near as possible, not just the down stroke. Without the proper equipment it will be impossible to develop proper technique. If you can't power on the up stroke using your calves, hamstrings and glutes you're using less than half your leg and that's why your quads hurt.

Oh dear.