climbing

[zebee]

Bet I'm not the only one who views uphills with distaste. Alas as we all know, what goes down has to have gone up!

https://rothrockcyrcle.wordpress.com/20 ... nt-part-i/. is an interesting set of pages about 'bent climbing and worth a read of both parts (part 3 not there alas)

I've noticed that if I can feel my glutes working I do have more power up hills. I have tried the "scraping your shoes" style of pedalling and it sorta works so I tried the "drop your leg".

I couldn't really feel how to do that, but if I concentrated on my glutes and even lifted them off the seat a bit, it did feel like I was getting more power.

My problem tends to be running out of puff rather than running out of power mind you!

[TrikeTragic]

Hi:
Where I am in outer north east Melbourne where riding is all hills, little ones, big ones, bigger ones...... My ride is a 20-26 TW Bents / Flying Furniture recumbent trike I've had since 2006, triple front cogs and 9 speed rear derailleur, giving me a speed range on pedal power from roughly 4 - 55 kph. The bio power unit is now in his seventh decade, I am 187 cm and 105 kg, the loaded trike with a pannier of spare tubes, wet weather gear, tools etc is about 18 kg!

Before my trike I rode MTBs and road bikes, a well as a folder as a commuter while I owned the trike. I've taken the trike on multiple Great Vic rides and 4 around the bays. So I can say I've compared my trike's (and my own) long ride speeds with equivalent riders on bikes in the same variable terrain.

I don't hate hills (otherwise I wouldn't ride around here!). Compared to the writer of the article, who's clearly writing about recumbent bikes, I'm not worried about low speed handling on a trike, and as far as I can tell, there's minimal frame flex. Not sure why he doesn't like mesh seats from a power loss point of view - I would have thought mesh correctly tensioned would have minimal power loss as you push out on the power stroke.

In my opinion, I'm slower climbing compared to uprights due to two things: weight differential, and the nature of power delivery on a trike from seated position prevents the gains the upright rider gets from the ability to rotate their hips and upper thighs either side of the seat. I figure even a 70 kg weight weenie power rider would be slower uphill on a bent when the trike weighs 18 kg and their bike is maybe 8 kg. Even on a bike, I was taught you develop more consistent power if you focus on the "pull stroke", so that's my approach to climbing too.

So...hills. I enjoy the view climbing, because I have that extra time on the ascent and I'm not staring at my front wheel or worrying about low speed wobbles. And the payoff is the downhill on the other side. I describe the sensation to others as "hey, it's a three wheeled go-kart...."

Cheers

[zebee]

after a bit more experimentation on bike and trike I think it is about foot angle.

The bike is AB (bottom bracket above bum) and the trike is BB (bottom bracket below bum)

If trying to scrape on the bike the foot angle changes and it's a bit awkward. The hamstrings are involved but they are a much smaller muscle than the glutes. But if I think about dropping the foot down - not letting it drop but thinking about forcing it down - the glutes do seem to activate. And my foot doesn't change angle.

but on the trike I can scrape and it is natural and not awkward. Yes it is hamstrings but it is smooth and doesn't force the ankle. Thinking about dropping just doesn't work on the trike.

[zebee]

After more experimentation....

Took the trike for a longer ride yesterday, with more gentle climbing than usual. (usual is mostly flat with 2 short steep climbs that the motor does the work on)

I noticed it is a lot more quad use than I use on the same run on the two wheeler! The 2 wheeler is way more glute.

With the bottom bracket low, the scrape of the foot after the crank push is done is instinctive. THe foot angle is exactly right for that idea and motion as it's close to parallel to the crank. With the bottom bracket high the foot is much closer to 90deg to the crank and forcing the heel down makes more sense than pulling it back.

Your Leg Angle May Vary.

Zebee

[skyblot]

The author of the Rothrockcyrcle articles also posts regularly on BROL, under the name “Steamer”. Like his web pages, his posts are well worth considering carefully. His writings come from the experience and aims of long distance cycling (200, 300 km and more) and don’t tend to concentrate on pure speed.

He also put his money where his mouth is, and designed and had built a special high racer with the aim of minimising or eliminating some very annoying highracer traits. By all reports it has met or exceeded his expectations. He has an interesting write up of that experience too.

I think the biggest takeaway is that there is no “one right way” of setting up and pedalling a recumbent. And it will all differ between riders individual physiology.

It’s been my experience and observation that the seat can be the biggest absorber of rider’s power, with tensioned mesh (with or without a foam cushion) being the worst offender. It’s no coincidence that the fastest bikes and trikes have hardshell seats very firmly attached to the frame, and with minimal padding.

Pedalling style is another broad church if you like. Lots of stories and anecdotes, but precious little actual study and controlled trials. Some years ago a group of very fast riders in Florida (I think) developed a special seat called a railgun seat, it had a specific contour that worked very well with a specific pedalling technique that took time to master. Yet neither the seat, nor the pedalling technique were a performance breakthrough on their own.

I guess what I’m saying is to research with an open mind and try for yourself, and use what works for you. And when someone says “Yer doin it wrong”, nod politely and do it your way!