Will Cycling help with lower back strength?

[brumby33]

G'day everyone, I've been rather quiet lately due to work requirements driving buses, too many hours which has me really considering my life's options once again.

I can spend up to 10-11 hours per day in the driver's seat of a bus and It's really killing my back. I get muscle spasms on my lower right and at times center towards the bottom of my spine. It's obviously nerve problems and weak lower back muscles.

So will cycling help with strengthening my lower back? Will some kind of back brace/belt support help?

Will the act of cycling help make the lower back stronger or is walking much better for lower backs?

I was going to put this question into my old & decrepit thread but I think it's more than just feeling old and slow and it's more about quality of life due to back pain so I thought I'd begin a new thread so others may read and learn from everyone's input.

I believe much of my back issues are from many years of sitting in one position driving heavy vehicles, mostly buses and in the past trucks and now that I'm heading for 64 in a few Months from now and I really want to be able to work on my core strength, my lower back strength.

It's hard to straighten up after a few hours in the bus with the pain like an electrical voltage in my right lower back, sometimes that bad to send tears running down my face.

I have had this issue for about 15 years in total but I'd have a bout of it for a week or two then disappear for 6 to 12 Months or more but always comes back to haunt me but now it feels like it's coming back more frequently. I'm getting rather concerned and sick of feeling like a 85 yr old.

Do you think I should consult a Chiropractor or another practitioner?

I've had doctors in the past tell me that it's due to posture and/or Osteo Arthritis in that region. They tell me it's not sciatica because it's on the wrong side.

Cheers

brumby33

[warthog1]

I would see a GP and get some decent medical imaging done, if you haven't already.
Determine what the cause of the pain is and then work out how to treat/manage it.

[Tim]

The best thing I have ever done for lower back pain was getting myself a young and energetic dog.
Two shortish 20-30 minute walks a day. Rain, hail or shine, he won't take no for an answer. No pathetic excuses.
While cycling is my main form of activity it's never done anything to help with a sore back. While excellent for general health and well-being, it can sometimes aggravate my back troubles.
A simple twice daily walk. After cycling and after (physical) work, it has been the best pain remedy I've ever found. I wish I had known this decades earlier having tried everything from drugs to stretching, physios, chiros, "targeted" exercises and rest. You name it, I've tried it.
Walking has worked genuine wonders. It treats the pain and also prevents further flare-ups.

There's a whole new body of research, trials and evidence finding that conventional remedies just don't work. Much of the traditional method/s are little more than myth and quackerry, lacking in evidence and ineffective. This includes chiropractics, surgery, opioid pain relief, core strength, "good" posture, stretching and sitting posture. An awful lot of it is pure bunkum.
https://neura.edu.au/news-media/media-r ... ous-system

[warthog1]

Some of it works. I prolapsed L5/S1 intervertebral disc over 20 years ago.
The disc material was pressing on the nerve root.
Microdiscectomy = instant relief and resolution.

[brumby33]

The best thing I have ever done for lower back pain was getting myself a young and energetic dog.
Two shortish 20-30 minute walks a day. Rain, hail or shine, he won't take no for an answer. No pathetic excuses.
While cycling is my main form of activity it's never done anything to help with a sore back. While excellent for general health and well-being, it can sometimes aggravate my back troubles.
A simple twice daily walk. After cycling and after (physical) work, it has been the best pain remedy I've ever found. I wish I had known this decades earlier having tried everything from drugs to stretching, physios, chiros, "targeted" exercises and rest. You name it, I've tried it.
Walking has worked genuine wonders. It treats the pain and also prevents further flare-ups.

There's a whole new body of research, trials and evidence finding that conventional remedies just don't work. Much of the traditional method/s are little more than myth and quackerry, lacking in evidence and ineffective. This includes chiropractics, surgery, opioid pain relief, core strength, "good" posture, stretching and sitting posture. An awful lot of it is pure bunkum.
https://neura.edu.au/news-media/media-r ... ous-system

Thanks Tim, I intend to have a read of that over the next couple of days, I also watch Dr John Bergman, a US Chiropractor who's more into holistic solutions against medication which he is very much against.

Microdiscectomy

who does these Warty? A chiropractor?

[Mr Purple]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say a few things:
- Imaging won't really help unless you're considering surgery or you have persistent sciatic type pain. Even then most of the impingement will resolve as muscle spasm and inflammation do.
- I'd start with a decent physio. If they're worried they'll send you to someone else - usually a GP.
- Sciatica can be anywhere in your leg - including the front. It depends on which nerve root is being pinched.
- Chiropractors are for the main part witchcraft. A good one is still sometimes helpful, a bad one will try to kill you.

[warthog1]

I'm going to go against the grain here and say a few things:
- Imaging won't really help unless you're considering surgery or you have persistent sciatic type pain. Even then most of the impingement will resolve as muscle spasm and inflammation do.
- I'd start with a decent physio. If they're worried they'll send you to someone else - usually a GP.
- Sciatica can be anywhere in your leg - including the front. It depends on which nerve root is being pinched.

You are a Dr so trump me well and truly.
I did have persistent sciatic pain, like a cramp in my leg as did my wife.
Imaging clearly showed my ruptured disc. My wife also has back problems and was having grief from her employer who refused to believe she had a back injury.
The imaging she had done was amazing. Clearly showed 2 bulging discs which promptly put her employer back in their box.
Was amazing to look at you could see the discs and vertebrae like they were out of the body. I was impressed anyway.

Chiropractors are for the main part witchcraft. A good one is still sometimes helpful, a bad one will try to kill you.

I have heard they aren't too well regarded by medical practitioners.
That seems a succinct summary

[warthog1]

Microdiscectomy

who does these Warty? A chiropractor?

Mine was done by a neurosurgeon in Adelaide.
The problem was evident on the imaging and he was very clear about the required treatment.
I had a great GP in Alice who got me on the right path quickly.
As Mr P says it depends on the symptoms I guess and there are many different causes of back pain.
I am guessing however and just going off my own experience.
Mr P will know a sh itload more, but it is his paid vocation so he can probably think of better things to be doing outside of work.

[Mr Purple]

Bulging discs are pretty common - it’s where they permanently compress the nerve and cause persistent sciatica (as in your case) that they need surgery.

If you can unpinch the nerve by releasing the muscle spasm it doesn’t matter that the disc is bulging, which is why you don’t always want to know.

I have a back surgeon I’ve probably referred a hundred patients to. He’s operated on two (and immediately). That’s the sort of surgeon you want!

[brumby33]

Microdiscectomy

who does these Warty? A chiropractor?

Mine was done by a neurosurgeon in Adelaide.
The problem was evident on the imaging and he was very clear about the required treatment.
I had a great GP in Alice who got me on the right path quickly.
As Mr P says it depends on the symptoms I guess and there are many different causes of back pain.
I am guessing however and just going off my own experience.
Mr P will know a sh itload more, but it is his paid vocation so he can probably think of better things to be doing outside of work.

Apparently, the cartilage between the discs should be rejuvenated and lubricated by synovial fluid if constantly moved around, which I often do even in a bus driver's seat because of the constant twisting and moving going around roundabouts and sharp corners just by steering the bus around them but after 35 years of constantly sitting in those seats day in and day out have definitely taken it's toll.
This pain will go then come back in 6 Months but the frequency is now becoming regular with longer recovery.

Theres just so much I want to do in the last 20 yrs of life (guestimate) but am afraid I've let it go on for too long, I'm not sure now that this pain can be reversed now. The last thing I want for the remainder of my life is to be restricted to a bloody zimmer frame or a disabled scooter. If I have to cut my working life short, I will.....I have no mortgage anymore but still have over 3 yrs before I can get a pension.

[warthog1]

Bulging discs are pretty common - it’s where they permanently compress the nerve and cause persistent sciatica (as in your case) that they need surgery.

If you can unpinch the nerve by releasing the muscle spasm it doesn’t matter that the disc is bulging, which is why you don’t always want to know.

I have a back surgeon I’ve probably referred a hundred patients to. He’s operated on two (and immediately). That’s the sort of surgeon you want!

Mine was ruptured. My wife's are bulging. Still give her grief occasionally but much better than they were.

Thanks for your input

[warthog1]

Apparently, the cartilage between the discs should be rejuvenated and lubricated by synovial fluid if constantly moved around, which I often do even in a bus driver's seat because of the constant twisting and moving going around roundabouts and sharp corners just by steering the bus around them but after 35 years of constantly sitting in those seats day in and day out have definitely taken it's toll.
This pain will go then come back in 6 Months but the frequency is now becoming regular with longer recovery.

Theres just so much I want to do in the last 20 yrs of life (guestimate) but am afraid I've let it go on for too long, I'm not sure now that this pain can be reversed now. The last thing I want for the remainder of my life is to be restricted to a bloody zimmer frame or a disabled scooter. If I have to cut my working life short, I will.....I have no mortgage anymore but still have over 3 yrs before I can get a pension.

It sounds like work isn't helping.
I have no clue what the problem is sorry.
I have no training on back injury. Just how to hopefully avoid it during manual handling. Wish I did that earlier
I hope you get it sorted.

[Andy01]

As someone who suffered from sciatica for years and had two L4/L5 disc surgeries, I would agree with what your previous doctors told you - mostly. Sciatica is not a wrong side / correct side thing - it can happen of either left or right side, but usually radiates down through your bum, down the outer/back side of your leg and into you foot & toes if it is bad enough.

Nerve pain up you back is probably not sciatica, but something else.

I would strongly recommend a good sports injury physio rather than a chiropractor - in my experience, chiropractors can be very helpful, but some can do more damage than good. A good physio will give you a regime of exercises to strengthen your lower back and core muscles and a strong core is a great step towards protecting your back. I still do about 30 minutes of these exercises every morning (more than 10 years after I saw the physio). I have found that cycling certainly does help with the core strength as well, and keeps some excess weight off around the middle.

If you are getting muscle spasms then a good acupuncture person may be helpful as well.

I would suggest caution with using a brace as generally they tend to assist with weakening the muscles rather than strengthening them, which may worsen things long term.

After my surgery (lumbar discectomy) I was told to walk, walk and walk some more as walking is good for lower backs but that is possibly more of a recovery thing, rather than a proper strengthening thing. I think that cycling is higher "intensity".

[foo on patrol]

Cycling itself won't strengthen your back but targeted exercise does.

I have suffered from chronic sciatica pain since I was 18 and there has been only one physio that has come close to helping and he incorporated acupuncture into the the treatment and got my pain levels from 8-9 most days and up to 14 painkillers a day to a 4 on the pain level and not needing painkillers but since I had a slip whilst cleaning a pool, fracturing my tailbone and wrist, I'm back up to the 8-9 level of pain and taking both prescription and over the counter painkillers, with walking being a constant flow of pain. I can however, ride my bike and not be in severe pain.

Foo

[brumby33]

Cycling itself won't strengthen your back but targeted exercise does.

I have suffered from chronic sciatica pain since I was 18 and there has been only one physio that has come close to helping and he incorporated acupuncture into the the treatment and got my pain levels from 8-9 most days and up to 14 painkillers a day to a 4 on the pain level and not needing painkillers but since I had a slip whilst cleaning a pool, fracturing my tailbone and wrist, I'm back up to the 8-9 level of pain and taking both prescription and over the counter painkillers, with walking being a constant flow of pain. I can however, ride my bike and not be in severe pain.

Foo

Yeah Foo, many people like yourself have spent most their entire life with chronic back pain, Luckily for me it wasn't so but in the past 15 years it has raised its ugly head.
I think it's a nerve getting pinched somewhere on my lower right side, I've never had the sciatica nerve give me any grief.
I haven't ridden the bike for a few Months now but i will to see if that gives me any grief

Others have mentioned acupuncture.....Could be worth a try.

What about massage, what type of Massage could address lower back pain?

Cheers

brumby33

[g-boaf]

Physio is the most important first step, along with other exercise they recommend.

I have a great physio in sydney who is helping get me back to normal.

[foo on patrol]

Cycling itself won't strengthen your back but targeted exercise does.

I have suffered from chronic sciatica pain since I was 18 and there has been only one physio that has come close to helping and he incorporated acupuncture into the the treatment and got my pain levels from 8-9 most days and up to 14 painkillers a day to a 4 on the pain level and not needing painkillers but since I had a slip whilst cleaning a pool, fracturing my tailbone and wrist, I'm back up to the 8-9 level of pain and taking both prescription and over the counter painkillers, with walking being a constant flow of pain. I can however, ride my bike and not be in severe pain.

Foo

Yeah Foo, many people like yourself have spent most their entire life with chronic back pain, Luckily for me it wasn't so but in the past 15 years it has raised its ugly head.
I think it's a nerve getting pinched somewhere on my lower right side, I've never had the sciatica nerve give me any grief.
I haven't ridden the bike for a few Months now but i will to see if that gives me any grief

Others have mentioned acupuncture.....Could be worth a try.

What about massage, what type of Massage could address lower back pain?

Cheers

brumby33

Mine can be so bad that it will dump me on the ground. The only way that I can get even the slightest relief is by laying down or sitting upright with both legs out straight and grabbing my right foot with my left hand and the front of my leg at the knee and drawing my foot up to my groin and my knee up to my chest and then pushing the knee back down so that it is nearly flat or horizontal to ground and hold it for 10-20sec. Also do the same thing but instead of pushing down with my hand, lean forward and us the chest for the same movement but this is what I found works for me.

Massage can work by releasing tension in the muscle groups around the effected area but it won't last for much more than a couple of days, it's the pinch point of the nerve that is the root cause of the problem and sadly for me, no amount of probing and prodding by anyone has given me total relief.

Foo

[Andy01]

Foo, when my sciatica got so bad that my knees gave out a few times and dropped me to all 4s on a footpath (and it got so bad that a 200Mg Tramal did absolutely nothing - I had to take 3 within 6 hours to feel any benefit - I had to sit down to take a pee, couldn't stand), the only way forward was surgery. I was only 39 at the time.

The surgery was mostly very successful with fairly instant relief, but 20 years later I still have slight numbness in the middle 3 toes on my left foot. The surgeon said that I left it a little too late (I had absolutely zero sensation along the bottom of my left foot - the whole foot, when I went to see him - he tested with a spiked wheel) and that there was a small amount of permanent nerve damage.

[foo on patrol]

Foo, when my sciatica got so bad that my knees gave out a few times and dropped me to all 4s on a footpath (and it got so bad that a 200Mg Tramal did absolutely nothing - I had to take 3 within 6 hours to feel any benefit - I had to sit down to take a pee, couldn't stand), the only way forward was surgery. I was only 39 at the time.

The surgery was mostly very successful with fairly instant relief, but 20 years later I still have slight numbness in the middle 3 toes on my left foot. The surgeon said that I left it a little too late (I had absolutely zero sensation along the bottom of my left foot - the whole foot, when I went to see him - he tested with a spiked wheel) and that there was a small amount of permanent nerve damage.

Yeah it's a real nasty thing that most people can't even come close to understanding how painful it is or how it drags you down on an emotional level. Drs spoke to me about surgery but on a few occasions but if they stuff it up, the end result can be worse than dealing with the chronic and debilitating pain that you're going through.

Since the fall, when I cleaning the pool, I get tingling and numbness down the left leg at times but not into my feet.

This sciatica problem was another reason why I couldn't do serious Road Races over 100klms, because it would start taking my legs out and that meant no power. As a Junior rider (16-18yrs) I could power along really well and was in the QLD State Team for Perth as a reserve rider. Two punctures in the final race for selection and coming in 8th place only 5mins behind the winners wasn't good enough for the selectors but that was the limit of my distance on the road, without any real problems with the back. If I do too many sprint efforts and standing starts, it will give me plenty of grief but I will be able to work around that a bit with more muscle strengthening of the lower back and abdominal area once I retire at the end of the year.


Foo

[Andy01]

While there is always a risk with any surgery, and that includes spinal surgery, if it is due to a bulged/blown/herniated disc, it is a fairly simple procedure. I have had two surgeries, both L4/L5 (the first one wasn't a great success) and both provided instant relief. I think that if you go with a reputable surgeon the risks should be very low. My second one was with Paul Lecina at Brisbane Private, and he discharged me 60 minutes after I woke up - I didn't even spend the night in hospital.

If, of course, the sciatica is caused by something else (like degeneration) and more invasive surgery (like a spinal fusion) is required then obviously it is a more complex procedure with different risks.

[foo on patrol]

While there is always a risk with any surgery, and that includes spinal surgery, if it is due to a bulged/blown/herniated disc, it is a fairly simple procedure. I have had two surgeries, both L4/L5 (the first one wasn't a great success) and both provided instant relief. I think that if you go with a reputable surgeon the risks should be very low. My second one was with Paul Lecina at Brisbane Private, and he discharged me 60 minutes after I woke up - I didn't even spend the night in hospital.

If, of course, the sciatica is caused by something else (like degeneration) and more invasive surgery (like a spinal fusion) is required then obviously it is a more complex procedure with different risks.

Foo

[brumby33]

Foo, I'd suggest you look into surgery for your sciatic issue, it may be a godsend for you.

Many years ago, back in the early to mid 80's my father did some injury to his back when checking the brakes on a locomotive on the railway, it really got bad for him to the point it almost put him in a wheelchair, poor bugger was in agony, he eventually got down to Newcastle to the John Hunter Hospital to have an operation. It was his sciatic nerve being pinched by a crushed disc......in those days, back operations were mostly unheard of but the doctor that operated on Dad's back gave a 60% chance that he could fix it, Dad took that 60% chance and they went to work on him, it was a fairly long recovery but it was very successful and Dad ended up having a normal life of work and retirement, later having 3 knee surgeries, one had to be redone as it didn't sit properly and movement was restricted......so Dad's back op was 40 years ago now....it was the best thing he has ever done he reckoned.....

[warthog1]

I'd suggest anecdotes on a cycling forum are a poor choice for determining what course of action to take with respect to managing a back injury.
Find a good GP take their advice for investigations and further treatment or referral to specialists.

[find_bruce]

Yep - I have 30 years experience looking after my back & know what works for me, but no idea if that’s what best for you

Any exercise that doesn’t aggravate my back always helps, whether that’s cycling swimming, walking or whatever

[am50em]

Walking, pilates and an excellent physiotherapist helped my back issues (including sciatica).