Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

Hi All,

Looking to get my first carbon fibre bike and wanting thoughts on versatility.

I’m drawn to something like a Trek Emonda, Scott foil or Giant TCR but I’m hoping what I get can do some off-road (lilydale Warburton trail, darebin creek trail off-road part type of riding) on it too.

Do people think the 32 mm tyres that can be crammed in would be enough for that? Or should I be going something like the Trek Domane/Giant Defy with clearance for something larger?

Upgrading/consolidating from a CAAD8 and a Norco Search XR A1. Goal is to improve speed.

Thanks in advance for taking some time to share your knowledge.

I did a gravel tour on 32mm tyres. The lack of edge grip meant continuous concentration to avoid the front wheel washing out. I wouldn't recommend it.

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Norco Search XR A1. Goal is to improve speed.

If you like the way this fits, just get a C version and a set of Hunt aero road wheels.

Unless you get a full on aero or TT bike, nothing is really going to improve your speed that much just by changing to a carbon bike. Pedal faster, or, when you do more gravel stuff because you're sick of cars and the same roads, think about smiles per hour instead of miles per hour.

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Goal is to improve speed.

Better tyres (and properly adjusted wheel bearings). At least 32mm wide (See Mr Heine's writings). More aero body position if you're on your own.

If you're doing as Mr Merckx recommends, the lighter bike will go up grades faster.

Thoglette wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 12:25 pm

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Goal is to improve speed.

Better tyres (and properly adjusted wheel bearings). At least 32mm wide (See Mr Heine's writings). More aero body position if you're on your own.

If you're doing as Mr Merckx recommends, the lighter bike will go up grades faster.

If the goal is to improve speed it would be wise to take Mr Heine's writings with a pinch of salt imo.
He sells tyres too, and that appears to be where his advice is pointed toward.
The fastest road racers and tt riders on the planet are not running tyres >32mm. If they were faster there would be significant motivation to use them.

32 mm wide minimum on dirt yes, not on road.
Aerodynamics become far more important as speed increases.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/prod ... ics-324578
Get some aero wheels for the bike you have and set them up with tyres that are narrower than the widest part of the rim.
See how that goes before buying a new bike with the aim of going faster.
The wheels will make a significant difference and if you still want a new bike keep the wheels for the new goer.

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:12 pm

The fastest road racers and tt riders on the planet are not running tyres >32mm. If they were faster there would be significant motivation to use them.

The pro-peleton has a pile of considerations beyond solo speed. Sprinting, getting a spare from the neutral service vehicle, having the UCI ban your bike, what the team boss believes is fast, what your sponsor wants you to ride.

Look how long it's taken to get from 21mm to 25mm. Heck, most "pro" bikes couldn't fit a 32mm tyre a few years back - after all no-one (i.e. dugast & FMB) made tubulars that big so what was the point? The 28mm tyres would come out with the "wide tyre" frames for Paris Roubaix.

But enough of that. As you say, aero is definitely a thing so I have to agree with you on this bit. Especially if GenericAlex is already soloing at a decent pace on the road.

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 1:12 pm

Get some aero wheels for the bike you have and set them up with tyres that are narrower than the widest part of the rim.
See how that goes before buying a new bike with the aim of going faster.
The wheels will make a significant difference and if you still want a new bike keep the wheels for the new goer.

Not what the OP had in mind but if GenericAlex wants speed....

gsxrboy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:13 am

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Norco Search XR A1. Goal is to improve speed.

Unless you get a full on aero or TT bike, nothing is really going to improve your speed that much just by changing to a carbon bike.

Thanks for the advice. Not expecting a huge boost more incremental gains in the same way wearing bike gear increases the average by ~2 kph.

warthog1 wrote:
Get some aero wheels for the bike you have and set them up with tyres that are narrower than the widest part of the rim.
See how that goes before buying a new bike with the aim of going faster.
The wheels will make a significant difference and if you still want a new bike keep the wheels for the new goer.

I’ve looked at some hunt wheels. But don’t want to invest the $$ that would go in the next bike knowing it will be disc brake instead of rim.

Soloing in the high 20s to low 30s Kph; FTP of ~220, so not a gun by any measure.

Sounds like the advice is speed gains come from going aero frame and getting good wheels and that the tyre sizes to do that rule out the off road elements?
Thanks everyone. Will let you know where I end up after testing some frames.

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:53 pm

I’ve looked at some hunt wheels. But don’t want to invest the $$ that would go in the next bike knowing it will be disc brake instead of rim.

Soloing in the high 20s to low 30s Kph; FTP of ~220, so not a gun by any measure.

Fair enough. Is the Norco not disc?
Anyway the CAAD 8 with these in it will not give much away, in terms of speed, to anything.
https://www.this link is broken.au/prime-rr-50-v ... ess-bundle

I have them on my TCR and rate them better than the firecrest 404s I have on the S5.

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 4:53 pm

gsxrboy wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 27, 2022 10:13 am

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Norco Search XR A1. Goal is to improve speed.

Unless you get a full on aero or TT bike, nothing is really going to improve your speed that much just by changing to a carbon bike.

Thanks for the advice. Not expecting a huge boost more incremental gains in the same way wearing bike gear increases the average by ~2 kph.

warthog1 wrote:
Get some aero wheels for the bike you have and set them up with tyres that are narrower than the widest part of the rim.
See how that goes before buying a new bike with the aim of going faster.
The wheels will make a significant difference and if you still want a new bike keep the wheels for the new goer.

I’ve looked at some hunt wheels. But don’t want to invest the $$ that would go in the next bike knowing it will be disc brake instead of rim.

Soloing in the high 20s to low 30s Kph; FTP of ~220, so not a gun by any measure.

Sounds like the advice is speed gains come from going aero frame and getting good wheels and that the tyre sizes to do that rule out the off road elements?
Thanks everyone. Will let you know where I end up after testing some frames.

More speed comes from training to get that FTP up and also working on the watts/kg. It takes time but will serve you better in the long run. Cheaper than buying things

Are you saying you solo average 30km/h for the whole ride? If so that’s not bad at all.

Bigger tyres might be useful for poor quality surfaces or dirt.

Most modern road bikes will take fairly decent size tyres. I think my S5 can probably squeeze in 28mm, the Canyon Ultimate also same.

genericalex wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:38 pm

Hi All,

Looking to get my first carbon fibre bike and wanting thoughts on versatility.

I’m drawn to something like a Trek Emonda, Scott foil or Giant TCR but I’m hoping what I get can do some off-road (lilydale Warburton trail, darebin creek trail off-road part type of riding) on it too.

Do people think the 32 mm tyres that can be crammed in would be enough for that? Or should I be going something like the Trek Domane/Giant Defy with clearance for something larger?

Upgrading/consolidating from a CAAD8 and a Norco Search XR A1. Goal is to improve speed.

Thanks in advance for taking some time to share your knowledge.

The two bits of dirt you've mentioned are not going to cause a problem. I've ridden them on my (1990) race bike which was designed for 20mm tyres and 23's are the limit of what can be squeezed in. Whatever you get will be quite happy on those paths. However since I am no longer at the peak of my abilities, race performance is now lower on my priority list. If I had to get a new bike I'd probably trend more towards the endurance road bike. I'd still race crits on it though and add it to the list of reasons why I didn't win the sprint in D grade.

Cheers,

Cameron

Domane may be still be avail in similar frame options. Could be an option if setup to best suit:- https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocross-g ... build.html

Some friends have just done some gravel racing. Their recommendation for rubber is a minimum of 38mm wide, run tubeless with sealant. For grip, a slick centre is fine but you need shoulder knobs.

I would not recommend drop bars and a rigid frame for anything that would be classed a mountain bike trail. A mate of mine recently joined us on an out-and-back ride on some management (fire) trails in Ru Ring Gai Chase NP. He had a rigid fatbike set up for touring. He struggled, especially on the downs.

Your current bikes actually sound pretty decent. Is the Norco Search disc? If it is I'd use that for gravel and forget about consolidating - just buy a decent carbon disc road bike.

Somehow, the word GRAVEL comes to mind. Look at a Trek Checkpoint, in carbon, and depending on the tyre choice, you are losing nothing on the gravel, and minimal on the road, or vice-versa. It is a very versatile bike. Some people here are getting too much caught up on specs. Just buy the bike as is, and at the end of the tyre's life, you will have determined the bikes tyre attributes and deficiencies, and you can buy the next set of tyres suitable to your riding terrain. Have fun.

Thanks for all the responses.

Mr Purple wrote: Your current bikes actually sound pretty decent. Is the Norco Search disc? If it is I'd use that for gravel and forget about consolidating - just buy a decent carbon disc road bike.

The Norco was disc but a touch heavy and I had some frustrations with it that just meant it lost its lustre and I wanted to move it on even if it is working now (Hence sold it).

Having gotten to some bike shops now I’ve also been recommended a cervelo Caledonia, Caledonia 5 over the Domane due to weight or even the Aspero 5 with road wheel set up.

Keen to know if anyone has any opinions on these or other similar options in the vein of comfortable but could hold its own in a lower grade race if ever I went that way. Gravel is a nice to have but not critical as I can put 40 mm tyres on my guilty secret, an eScultara if it really came to it.

The Caledonia is appealing as it fits (or is certainly marketed that way) that bill. They are a bit of a stretch in budget though

edit: also, definitely agree FTP and training is the best way and am working on that end too up 30 watts in 2 months. Soloing average moving speed for whole ride is more like 25 kph depending on route was basing the range on cruising speed (I.e. moving, no traffic lights trying to hold high upper end of sustainable power zone segments)