Complete newbie needing help

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:19 am

Hi everyone,

I haven’t ridden a bike for about 15 years but I’d like to check out the fire trails/bike paths in the national park, and some paved bike paths along the creek etc. I am seriously unfit so I’m not planning on doing anything super strenuous (I will be avoiding big hills as much as possible for now). Improving my fitness would be a nice bonus but my main goal is to see some wildlife and nature.

So I went to the local bike shop today and they suggested a hybrid bike would be good. I tried out these two and they seemed nice:

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/x ... 2021-black

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/h ... e-charcoal

So my first question - are either of these any good? If not, can you recommend something better? I see a lot of talk on the forums about the crappiness of suspension forks for lower end bikes, but generally the alternatives people recommend are called “City this” and “City that” which doesn’t sound right for what I’ll be doing.

The next thing - I’m not keen on spending ~$1k because I’m really not sure yet if I’ll enjoy riding, or if my bike will just end up sitting in the shed for years. On the other hand, if I get something cheap that’s absolutely horrible to ride, then that might turn me off riding… which will also end up with the bike in the shed doing nothing. I don’t know what do do about this crazy dilemma but I’m thinking second hand might be the way to go - what do you guys think is a reasonable spend to get a happy medium second hand?

Cheers :)

brumby33
Posts: 2121
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:52 pm
Location: Albury NSW on the mighty Murray River

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby brumby33 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:36 am

Any of the two you showed will be ok, but out of the two would be the first one with Hydro disc brakes and 27 speed gears just to make it easier on the hills.

Yeah in regards to suspension, these will be ok, it's not as if you're going to be doing any stump jumping any time soon, they are just to dampen the shocks to your hands for road irregularities.

If you live near the bike shop, I'd advise you to buy there so if anything should need fixing, it's easier to get to and hopefully the bike shop will look after you if you buy from them...I know it doesn't give you variety but for your first bike, I'd advise strongly. If you think you might enjoy a better bike down the track, then you can splash out more but you seem to be approaching it from a sensible point of view.

As for used bikes, it's ok to buy used but sizing is fairly important, not much point buying something too big or small for you, bike could be a stolen one, or you just have to trust the info the seller is telling you and of there's something wrong with it...he ain't gonna tell you that in most cases, once he has your money, it's your problem now whereas if you bought from a reputable bicycle shop, you're protected by consumer law but in most cases, they'll look after you. If you have a mate that knows a bit about bikes, maybe he can help with a used one.

Good luck with your choice and hope you'll enjoy the ride. Don't expect your body to like the idea right away, especially your backside and legs, it'll take a while so easy does it and just enjoy the scenery and getting out there to enjoy the outdoors....no time table required!!

Cheers

brumby33
"ya gotta hold ya mouth right"

VWR Patagonia 2017
2003 Diamondback Sorrento Sport MTB

Andy01
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby Andy01 » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:13 pm

duckling wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:19 am
Hi everyone,

I haven’t ridden a bike for about 15 years but I’d like to check out the fire trails/bike paths in the national park, and some paved bike paths along the creek etc. I am seriously unfit so I’m not planning on doing anything super strenuous (I will be avoiding big hills as much as possible for now). Improving my fitness would be a nice bonus but my main goal is to see some wildlife and nature.

So I went to the local bike shop today and they suggested a hybrid bike would be good. I tried out these two and they seemed nice:

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/x ... 2021-black

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/h ... e-charcoal

So my first question - are either of these any good? If not, can you recommend something better? I see a lot of talk on the forums about the crappiness of suspension forks for lower end bikes, but generally the alternatives people recommend are called “City this” and “City that” which doesn’t sound right for what I’ll be doing.

The next thing - I’m not keen on spending ~$1k because I’m really not sure yet if I’ll enjoy riding, or if my bike will just end up sitting in the shed for years. On the other hand, if I get something cheap that’s absolutely horrible to ride, then that might turn me off riding… which will also end up with the bike in the shed doing nothing. I don’t know what do do about this crazy dilemma but I’m thinking second hand might be the way to go - what do you guys think is a reasonable spend to get a happy medium second hand?

Cheers :)
I notice that the XDS refers to Liv Rove, which means this is probably a ladies bike - correct ? (although the Haro looks like a men's bike ?)

The Liv Rove 2 (Liv is Giant's ladies bike brand - effectively a ladies version of a Giant Roam 2) seems to have similar specs , but only 2x9 (not 3x9)and has slightly wider tyres and is $50 cheaper. I have zero experience with XDS, but the trick right now is finding something in stock. I might suggest that the likelihood of finding a Rove in stock is probably not great, so you might have to go with what you can get your hands on.

I have a Giant Roam 1 which is basically the men's equivalent of the Liv Rove 1 and it has a 63mm air front shock. The air is certainly better than the spring and the 63mm is enough to take the edge off bumps etc (I have tried my regular ride using the shock and with it locked out and the ride is more comfortable with the shock active, so it does do something) but it certainly isn't going to take you too far going offroad.

The biggest downside to a suspension fork is the extra weight. A suspension fork (especially a mechanical spring version) is pretty heavy compared to a "solid" fork and obviously weight is a consideration for cycling. Weight is not too important to me as I use my bike primarily for exercise and recreational rides that are not too long so the extra comfort is nice, but for people doing long rides and/or commuting then weight is a lot more important than potentially a bit of extra comfort.

I think that for your stated purpose (casual rides on paths and light "off-road" trails) something like the XDS or Liv Rove (if you are a lady), or a Giant Roam 2 (if you are a man) would be a reasonable place to start - decent specs (not cheap & cheerful) and light-duty suspension and wider (more comfortable assuming you run them "softish" around 35psi, not 60psi) tyres. Obviously the more costly bikes will have something like Shimano Deore 10 speed (Rove 1 and Roam 1 are 2x10) which is much nicer gears and smooth changes and air shocks, Shimano hydraulic discs (not Tektro) etc etc - but they are also $300-400 more costly, which for a beginner may be too much.

https://www.liv-cycling.com/au/bikes-rove-2022
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/au/bikes-roam-disc-2022

In my (limited compared with many members here) experience, the cheaper Shimano 3x7 or 8 gears can be made to change smoothly, but it just takes more work to achieve that. Similarly the mechanical disc brakes can work OK, but having recently upgraded from mechanical discs (older bikes) to hydraulic (on the new Roam 1) the hydraulics feel a lot better - more powerful and more importantly better control. The mechanical discs I had tended to lock up very easily causing the bike to skid (and my back wheel went out sideways on me more than once) whereas the hydraulic discs now just seem to pull the bike up more quickly and smoothly and it is easier to avoid skidding (locking up).

Mozziediver
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:51 am
Location: Melbourne, northish

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby Mozziediver » Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:52 pm

If you aren't sure about riding, a second hand bike / trade-in might be a lower cost way to find out. Get it checked out/ serviced by a store if you aren't confident.
Also fit and feel matter more than mens/ womens models. Often the saddles on the "womens" versions are more suited to us non racer types!
Most "name" brand bikes (and parts) are pretty good, so don't worry too much about models and equipment levels. If you're in the northern Melb/ Heidelberg area, there are heaps of great bike paths and many of these recently upgraded so off-road things like suspension forks are only nice-to-have + extra weight. In 10 years riding I've only once wished I had suspension forks and that was dirt track on the O'shannessy Aqueduct.
\edit for clarification\
Moz
------------
Surly LHT 2013, '74 Raleigh 20 folder updated, Focus Aventura2 ebike.

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:48 pm

Thanks for you help everyone! I’m a lady, and the Haro bike I tried actually had a step-through frame but I couldn’t find that version on the website - sorry for the confusion!

Andy, I couldn’t find any Liv Rove 2s in Melbourne but there are some 3s and 4s. Not sure if these would be suitable?

They also have some Liv Alight 2s which seem quite similar? I can’t really tell the difference other than they don’t have a suspension fork - I’m not 100% sure if that’s a good or bad thing though!

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/l ... eucalyptus

Mozzie, I’m over in the Dandenong Ranges so would probably ride around in Lysterfield most often (not the Commonwealth Games tracks though, just the easier trails) - especially in summer since I’ll be able to have a swim afterwards :) And in cooler weather, maybe the random fire trails through the forest and the bike paths along the creeks and railway line.

Andy01
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby Andy01 » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:34 am

duckling wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 9:48 pm
Thanks for you help everyone! I’m a lady, and the Haro bike I tried actually had a step-through frame but I couldn’t find that version on the website - sorry for the confusion!

Andy, I couldn’t find any Liv Rove 2s in Melbourne but there are some 3s and 4s. Not sure if these would be suitable?

They also have some Liv Alight 2s which seem quite similar? I can’t really tell the difference other than they don’t have a suspension fork - I’m not 100% sure if that’s a good or bad thing though!

https://ivanhoecycles.com.au/products/l ... eucalyptus

Mozzie, I’m over in the Dandenong Ranges so would probably ride around in Lysterfield most often (not the Commonwealth Games tracks though, just the easier trails) - especially in summer since I’ll be able to have a swim afterwards :) And in cooler weather, maybe the random fire trails through the forest and the bike paths along the creeks and railway line.
The main difference between the Rove 2 and Rove 3 appears to be the gearing (2x9 vs 2x8). The 9 speed obviously has smaller "gaps" between gears so easier to find a "comfortable" gear. I suspect though that as a "new" cyclist who doesn't know any better you would just adapt to whatever you have and work with it. I would rather get a 2x8 than a 3x7 I think - unless you will have some serious hills as the 3x7 goes a bit lower than the 2x8.

The Alight 2 appears to be very similar in spec to the Rove 3 - rigid forks and skinnier tyres, so the ride will be less compliant - this may not matter to you but if you are riding on light off-road trails or (gravel) rail trails, the larger tyres and slight suspension may make things a bit smoother. I would imagine that the Alight might be 1-1.5kg lighter though ? Strangely enough the Alight 2 seems to be $50 dearer than the Rove 3 in spite of have essentially the same gearing and brakes, but non-suspension forks (usually cheaper) and slimmer tyres ?

The Alight 1 would probably be a better bike with 2x9 gearing and composite fork, but quite a bit dearer, so perhaps not the best value.

You could also look at a Liv Tempt 2 - a MTB rather than hybrid, but has 2x9 gears, longer travel suspension and larger tyres - for the same price as the Alight 2. The downside might be that it would be slower on the road due to lower gearing - you would be pedaling pretty hard to get over 40km/h, which may not matter to you ? May not be any stock though ? Also look at Tempt 3 or 4 perhaps.

https://www.liv-cycling.com/au/bikes-tempt-2022

My wife has a Liv Bliss 2 2019 model (back then there was more than 1 model in the range) which is only 3x7 and she has ridden over 3,000km (mostly on roads, footpaths and some light off-road tracks) on it, and it is still going strong. The longest ride we have done is 36km. I have had to spend a bit of time tweaking the shifting to get the gear changes nice and smooth, but other than that it rides well enough for her needs. The only thing I have replaced in that time is a chain. It is the cheapest option at about $600.

https://www.liv-cycling.com/au/bliss-2022

My suggestion would be to go back to the bike shop and look at these (and other bikes), sit on them, try them for size and fit, perhaps some short test rides, and see what feels best and which bikes you like the look of (colours etc). At this end of the spec range there probably isn't going to be a huge difference (especially to an inexperienced rider) so finding something in stock that looks and feels good is probably the most important thing.

If you start with a $600 Liv Bliss, Liv Tempt, Liv Rove or similar it should be plenty adequate for you to try some rides, gain some fitness, get a feel for riding again, and last you at least a couple of years. If by then you have the urge to get something better hopefully the current bike shortage situation will have normalised and you can pick something better without having to wait for months. If you decide that riding isn't working for you, you can sell the bike and only have "lost" a couple of hundred dollars.

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:33 pm

Thanks Andy, I think that’s a good strategy :) I’m going back to the bike shop tomorrow so I’ll check out a few different ones and see how they go.

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:45 pm

Oooh no. I followed a link to Pushy’s from another thread about helmets… and discovered there are road helmets and mountain bike helmets!?!?!?! Gah! What’s the difference and which kind do I need?

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foo on patrol
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Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby foo on patrol » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:48 pm

duckling wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:45 pm
Oooh no. I followed a link to Pushy’s from another thread about helmets… and discovered there are road helmets and mountain bike helmets!?!?!?! Gah! What’s the difference and which kind do I need?


Just buy a "helmet" for riding, you don't need any fancy allocated chit, buy a road one. :idea: :roll:

Foo
I don't suffer fools easily and so long as you have done your best,you should have no regrets.
Goal 6000km

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:57 pm

foo on patrol wrote:
Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:48 pm
Just buy a "helmet" for riding, you don't need any fancy allocated chit, buy a road one. :idea: :roll:

Foo
Phew!!! Thankyou :D

duckling
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:15 am

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby duckling » Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:21 am

Hi all,

Just an update - I went to some bike shops today and I bought a Liv Rove 1. It was way more than I hoped to spend, but the guys let me ride all the bikes around the carpark and that one felt better than all the others so I just bought it :D

Thanks again for all your help :)

Andy01
Posts: 1659
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:31 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Complete newbie needing help

Postby Andy01 » Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:56 pm

It is a nice bike - I am sure you will enjoy it (even with the Tektro brakes :D )

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