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Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:08 pm
by flywheel
Looking to purchase a multi-purpose bike, both for casual riding with the family along bike trails (including attaching a trailer) with intention to also use for commuting to work / fitness (up to 15km ride each way).
I believe an appropriate bike for my requirements is a hybrid or flat bar road bike but also noticed that some come with an internal hub gear, the appeal being the low maintenance. Given the intended usage does it really matter whether the bike is internal hub gear or not? Any recommendations on which bike to go for?
For internal hub gear, I am looking at the Marin Presidio 3 model -
https://www.marinbikes.com/au/bikes/2021-presidio-3
For derailleur, not entirely sure.
Budget of up to $2000
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:22 am
by MattyK
I used to tow a trailer with a similar bike (same hub). The ability to shift at a standstill is a blessing with a trailer. If you're anywhere hilly though you will want to change the sprocket or chainring for something lower ratio. 50/22 won't give you much margin for hauling loads up a hill. I mean, it can be done, but it's not fun (I used to run 44/16 when I had the trailer. Wouldn't have been possible without clip in pedals and pulling madly on the upstroke).
Then on the flipside lower gearing would mean you run out of range when commuting / downhills
An 11 speed hub should have more range if you can get one. Otherwise get a wide range derailleur system and anticipate changing gears before stopping.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:45 pm
by Gordonhooker
My personal choice would be internal I am over maintenance on 2x something geared bicycles.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:53 pm
by flywheel
MattyK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:22 am
I used to tow a trailer with a similar bike (same hub). The ability to shift at a standstill is a blessing with a trailer. If you're anywhere hilly though you will want to change the sprocket or chainring for something lower ratio. 50/22 won't give you much margin for hauling loads up a hill. I mean, it can be done, but it's not fun (I used to run 44/16 when I had the trailer. Wouldn't have been possible without clip in pedals and pulling madly on the upstroke).
Then on the flipside lower gearing would mean you run out of range when commuting / downhills
An 11 speed hub should have more range if you can get one. Otherwise get a wide range derailleur system and anticipate changing gears before stopping.
Thanks so much for your reply, not many options of 11 speed hub bikes available in Australia unfortunately and price-point is also an issue, those I have found are from Specialised and Canyon (both north of $3K). Might have to go with option with a derailleur
Did some other searching and also found this - pretty cool, but only available in the US:
https://www.prioritybicycles.com/produc ... ity-apollo
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:58 pm
by flywheel
Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:45 pm
My personal choice would be internal I am over maintenance on 2x something geared bicycles.
Thanks - that is one of the key reasons I am looking at the internal hub gear however one of the reasons I might opt otherwise is if purchased through Cycles Galleria they provide life-time free servicing -
https://cyclesgalleria.com.au/pages/procare
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:24 pm
by Andy01
For your $2000 budget you should be able to get a pretty decently speced bike, especially with regard to drivetrain.
I have just received my long-awaited Giant Roam 1 Disc 2022 10 days ago, which comes with 2x 10 speed Deore gearing & shifters. The changes on it, both front & rear, are switch-like - just flick the switch and the change happens. Even changes under moderate load happen pretty seamlessly.
Prior to the Deore, my last bike (fairly entry level Norco Storm MTB) had 3x 8 speed Tourney. It took a LOT of fine tuning (using the Park Tool derailleur adjustment videos) to get the changes to be "pretty good", but they were nothing like this Deore, especially under load. With the Tourney, dropping a front chainring under load was often not a roaring success and I got used to changing down just as I hit the bottom of an incline. With the Deore, it just changes.
I have no personal experience with the road bike equivalents, but I would be surprised if the higher speced Shimano road bike drivetrains (105 ?) were any worse than Deore for changing, so I would not be scared of derailleurs.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:12 pm
by flywheel
Andy01 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:24 pm
For your $2000 budget you should be able to get a pretty decently speced bike, especially with regard to drivetrain.
I have just received my long-awaited Giant Roam 1 Disc 2022 10 days ago, which comes with 2x 10 speed Deore gearing & shifters. The changes on it, both front & rear, are switch-like - just flick the switch and the change happens. Even changes under moderate load happen pretty seamlessly.
Prior to the Deore, my last bike (fairly entry level Norco Storm MTB) had 3x 8 speed Tourney. It took a LOT of fine tuning (using the Park Tool derailleur adjustment videos) to get the changes to be "pretty good", but they were nothing like this Deore, especially under load. With the Tourney, dropping a front chainring under load was often not a roaring success and I got used to changing down just as I hit the bottom of an incline. With the Deore, it just changes.
I have no personal experience with the road bike equivalents, but I would be surprised if the higher speced Shimano road bike drivetrains (105 ?) were any worse than Deore for changing, so I would not be scared of derailleurs.
Thanks so much for the reply - this helps, and also allows me to consider gravel bikes (as I havent seen any with an internal hub gear, largely been the commuter bikes) which gives me a bit more versatility
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:51 pm
by Thoglette
The Shimano Nexus 8D 8-speed has over 300% range, (i.e. 11 to 33) which is fine for most purposes.
(I run 11 to 30 with a 42 front - I only change to the big ring in fast group rides)
The only thing I'd add for commuting are proper mudguards (and a rack)
The "but" is what MattyK said:i f you need to pull a trailer full of kids up a 20% gradient _regularly_ then you're either going to end up with a silly small front ring. Or get off and push.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:56 pm
by flywheel
Thoglette wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:51 pm
The Shimano Nexus 8D 8-speed has over 300% range, (i.e. 11 to 33) which is fine for most purposes.
(I run 11 to 30 with a 42 front - I only change to the big ring in fast group rides)
The only thing I'd add for commuting are proper mudguards (and a rack)
The "but" is what MattyK said:i f you need to pull a trailer full of kids up a 20% gradient _regularly_ then you're either going to end up with a silly small front ring. Or get off and push.
Thanks for your reply and advice, very good points and is starting to make me lean more towards derailleur system with a wider gear range. In reality I am not sure how often I may be needing to pulling a trailer full of kids with a 20% gradient but the flexibility factor is starting to become more important than the benefits of lower maintenance on an internal gear hub
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:57 pm
by ironhanglider
MattyK wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:22 am
I used to tow a trailer with a similar bike (same hub). The ability to shift at a standstill is a blessing with a trailer. If you're anywhere hilly though you will want to change the sprocket or chainring for something lower ratio.
50/22 won't give you much margin for hauling loads up a hill. I mean, it can be done, but it's not fun (I used to run 44/16 when I had the trailer. Wouldn't have been possible without clip in pedals and pulling madly on the upstroke).
Then on the flipside lower gearing would mean you run out of range when commuting / downhills
An 11 speed hub should have more range if you can get one. Otherwise get a wide range derailleur system and anticipate changing gears before stopping.
You may want to check your maths MattyK, 50/22 = 2.27 but 44/16 = 2.75
Therefore a 50/22 combination would give an easier gear for hillclimbing, but not as fast a gear for descents. Spreading the load among more teeth is good for longevity too.
I think that my ultimate commuter would probably be a belt drive hub gear disc braked bike with racks and full length guards and Dynohub lights. The bike that I did get has conventional derailleur gears and rim brakes because it was cheaper to buy. It still has a pannier rack and full guards and dynohub lights. At the time the $ for the gear and brake systems and the frame to go with them was much more than I was prepared to spend vs what I got.
Cheers,
Cameron
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:19 pm
by MattyK
wasn't intending to imply that they were the same gearing. My bike was originally (and is again now) 44/20 which is 2.20, and even at that ratio it wouldn't be fun with a trailer. The 44/16 was good when I was commuting fast.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:27 am
by Duck!
Another thing to consider is that internal gear hubs usually involve more mucking around than derailleur gears when the need arises to pull the wheel out to fix a flat.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:18 am
by flywheel
Duck! wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:27 am
Another thing to consider is that internal gear hubs usually involve more mucking around than derailleur gears when the need arises to pull the wheel out to fix a flat.
Very good point, as I take onboard the feedback and points this is also a good consideration - thank you
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:22 pm
by baabaa
Would also offer up that some brands like surly and soma make fine bikes for towing and, also have the rear end set-up that allows for the use of an internal geared hub if you wish to go that way later.
Was looking at my single speed on the weekend and ways to make it louder as had two very close calls with brown snakes,and it occurred to me just how little time or care it takes to maintain the old single chainring, rear cog and a chunky chain needs - bike got a hose down, a little oil and think it will get a mini ping-ping-ping type cow-bell zip-tied on somewhere down low on the frame.
Re: Advice Needed - Commuter and Fitness Bike - Internal Hub Gear vs Derailleur
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2021 2:49 pm
by flywheel
Thanks all - have decided on the derailleur option and looking for a gravel bike...