E bikes ruining social rides

[celeste boy]

I ride with a group, a mixture of manual and e bikes. The e bikes are becoming more numerous. Last week these 2 things turned me off a bit:
* Riding on a bike track behind an e bike, noticed there was not a consistent speed. Im accustomed to looking at the riders hip and leg movements to alter my speed. I seemed to be using the brakes a lot and when I opted to pass after being frustrated there was another rider on my right. Nowhere to go if the e bike stopped or slowed down.
* Rode a fairly hilly ride and noticed the e bikes were roaring up the hills. Im talking 10 -12% which is steep for me. Im working my guts out and these guys just ride past , no problems. These were guys who bought an e bike as an extra bike but now its e bike, every ride. They may as well be on motor bikes or in cars!

The first is a safety issue and I'll deal with that by passing every time he slows down. Hopefully he will get the message.
The second is a social issue that I'm just going to have to live with.

[RonK]

There are quite a few e-bikes in my social riding group, sometimes I take one myself.
Regardless, it's a social ride group where we encourage riders at any level of competence and fitness, on any type of bike as long as it is safe and sevicable.
Yes some riders have poor cycling skills and no understanding of group cycling etiquette. It's an opportunity to educate, and most get the message fairly quickly.
Some riders have poor social skills as well - we've had success educating some in appropriate manners and behaviour, others not so much.
The e-bike riders are no worse than others.
You sometimes just have to take a deep breathe and chill out.

BTW anyone looking for a social ride In Brisbane can find us on Meetup - Social Cyclists SEQ.

[WyvernRH]

I ride with a group, a mixture of manual and e bikes. The e bikes are becoming more numerous. Last week these 2 things turned me off a bit:
* Riding on a bike track behind an e bike, noticed there was not a consistent speed. Im accustomed to looking at the riders hip and leg movements to alter my speed. I seemed to be using the brakes a lot and when I opted to pass after being frustrated there was another rider on my right. Nowhere to go if the e bike stopped or slowed down.
* Rode a fairly hilly ride and noticed the e bikes were roaring up the hills. Im talking 10 -12% which is steep for me. Im working my guts out and these guys just ride past , no problems. These were guys who bought an e bike as an extra bike but now its e bike, every ride. They may as well be on motor bikes or in cars!

The first is a safety issue and I'll deal with that by passing every time he slows down. Hopefully he will get the message.
The second is a social issue that I'm just going to have to live with.

Hmm, well point one I think you'll have to live with, that's a learned reaction on your part, similar say to one I have/had in having half an eye on the rider in front's rear brake callipers to see if they are going to brake - totally useless with the move to disks. The cadence to get an e-bike to work optimally is different from us flesh driven folk and from what my wife seems to have found out, changes depending on what assist mode they are in.
RonK covered point 2 very well, basically it is a matter of gently pointing out group etiquette and what's considered polite.

Our social group has quite a few e-bikes, mostly new riders or people who used to only ride down to the shops. They quickly learn the basics and how to integrate (mostly ) It can be a tadge frustrating when someone cruises past you on a 1 in 10 with an impossibly low cadence but hey, they are out there having a good time in the countryside in their own way just like you an me slogging our way up using only muscle power.

Richard

[Mububban]

Made me think of this

[peter]

I reckon ebike riders should just go organise their own rides, other than having 2 wheels and a chain, they are completely different machines, I mean would ebikes ride with motorbikes?

Different capabilities, different fitness requirements; when you are struggling uphill, they are waiting at the top; when you need a rest they are ready to go. Not at the same pace at all.

I ride for fitness, 40km to 50km in 2 hours is a good workout and it doesn't take half a day. If I get an ebike I would have to go further and ride longer, because there's no point to ride the same 50km on an ebike. Which means a ride suddenly becomes half day or even full day affair. I have got no time for that.

ebike makes sense for commute, transportation, or technician trails involving lots of uphill. Not a good fit for social road groups.

[Mr Purple]

While I have no objection to people riding e-bikes, I think I'd struggle to have any patience for any on a group ride.

The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).

So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.

[RonK]

While I have no objection to people riding e-bikes, I think I'd struggle to have any patience for any on a group ride.

The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).

So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.

That depends on the type of ride- this discussion is in the context of social rides, where speed is not the point of the ride.

But there are plenty of e-road bikes available now that will keep up with fast riders on the flat and slay them on the hills. You may need perseverance rather than patience to ride with them.

[find_bruce]

I know a bloke with some health issues & bought an e-bike so he could continue to ride with his mates - he's trying to keep pace with them rather than the other way around. He doesn't need 250w of boost, but can't keep up on flat rides nor make long rides.

A 200w pedal assist road bike, which is legal without a speed limit would be ideal, but unavailable.

[g-boaf]

While I have no objection to people riding e-bikes, I think I'd struggle to have any patience for any on a group ride.

The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).

So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.

Sometimes it's an issue of people with serious health problems might need to have an e-bike just to be able to keep riding with the group they used to ride with, people struggling with inoperable conditions who just want to keep riding with their friends until they get too sick to be able to do so. At least makes their remaining time with us somewhat enjoyable.

[Mr Purple]

Absolutely, and as Ron points out it's a social ride anyway so things will be a fair bit different.

There's probably a big difference between the e-bike commuters I encounter and experienced cyclists on e-bikes who are aware of how to turn some pedals around as well.

[celeste boy]

.....but I really wish they wouldn't draft me on their e bikes!

[ColinOldnCranky]

I'm pretty much on the same page as RonK.

Any new rider to a group will be an odd fit for a while. If they remain so then it likely to be either the group is not doing what works to change the behaviour to meet that particular groups ettiquette or the rider is not responding.

On the latter it can be that the rider is trying to fit into a group that they will never fit. Again, it is the group that needs to suggest that there are many groups and that they need to look further.

The group needs to use whatever interpersonal skills they have to address the problem.

But first, there is a question to ask of oneself. "Am I the only one having a problem with this rider?" Easily answered. If the answer is "yes" then that gives rise to a different approach which does not focus on the newby.

[Mububban]

I went on a 50km road ride recently with about 20 people. One chap returning from injury had an Orbea Gain alloy e-road bike. Only about 12kg with rear hub motor, compared to my alloy roadie which was almost 10kg stock, not too bad!

He set the motor on low and was often at the back of the pack when we encountered undulations and short climbs. So he could have, but chose not to tear off in front. No problems whatsoever matching pace with us on regular bikes.

And on the flat sections where we did above 25kmh, he was able to (just) keep up because the bike wasn't super heavy, but it enabled him to ride while recovering from injury and regaining fitness.

Considerate riders or jerks will be themselves no matter the vehicle.

[jasonc]

But there are plenty of e-road bikes available now that will keep up with fast riders on the flat and slay them on the hills. You may need perseverance rather than patience to ride with them.

illegal ones?

[RonK]

But there are plenty of e-road bikes available now that will keep up with fast riders on the flat and slay them on the hills. You may need perseverance rather than patience to ride with them.

illegal ones?

Nope - sorry to disappoint you, but perfectly legal ones.

https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/1 ... kes-272607

[WyvernRH]

But there are plenty of e-road bikes available now that will keep up with fast riders on the flat and slay them on the hills. You may need perseverance rather than patience to ride with them.

illegal ones?

Nope - sorry to disappoint you, but perfectly legal ones.

https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/1 ... kes-272607

+1 to that. They don't just stop dead at 25kph cos they weigh 2kg more than an average road bike you know. My wife who is 'cough, cough' older than me can happily keep up with me at 35kph on the flat/rolling portions of the Pacific Highway around our way on her Focus Paralane e-bike which weighs in about 12.5 kg as we have it set up.
Ok she won't be able to keep up with the 40kph heros but if you decide you want an e-bike then really you should not expect that sort of speed - well, legally I suppose but then you are on a moped not a push bike.
2kg is an extra water bottle and extended toolkit to me - ie nothing to how I ride. My body weight varies by more than that over a couple of days (OK I'm not super fit anymore )

+1 to Mububban as well.

Richard

[Mr Purple]

In Jason's defence, that's not actually the E-bike that's keeping up. That's the rider.

[celeste boy]

Update:
Social day at local velodrome on Melbourne Cup Day.
Novelty races but who doesn't take them seriously?
The Keiren and on the final lap Im 3 inches off the front riders wheel and the guy on the gurney, e bike appears on my left, inches away. Nearly pooped myself!

I know, I should have been riding a lot faster.

[Gordonhooker]

Made me think of this

I love it - it made me laugh.

I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.

I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...

[ColinOldnCranky]

Made me think of this

I love it - it made me laugh.

I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.

I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...

Welcome to paths.

On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.

After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.

[Gordonhooker]

Made me think of this

I love it - it made me laugh.

I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.

I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...

Welcome to paths.

On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.

After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.

I stick to paths as much as possible and have been riding them under leg power for years - I am aware of path etiquette, it was simply the steeper hills that were my rationale for moving to an ebike.

[Gordonhooker]

Made me think of this

I love it - it made me laugh.

I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.

I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...

Welcome to paths.

On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.

After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.

Can you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....

[RonK]

Can you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....

EUC's have been available for several years - even before e-scooters.

[Gordonhooker]

Can you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....

EUC's have been available for several years - even before e-scooters.

Yikes so where do they put the battery and the motor?

[trailgumby]

.....but I really wish they wouldn't draft me on their e bikes!

Reminds me of a guy I encountered one day at Barangaroo, awhile back before all the landscaping was done at the northern end.

He blew past on an e-bike in street clothes as I was turning left into the northern entrance, calling out "yah, so I'm cheating, deal with it (metaphorical middle finger)". I wouldn't have cared less, but the comment and the attitude could not be left unchallenged.

I was on the 26er Lefty hardtail with the 2.1" Michelin knobbly tyres on, so I spun it up and sat in on his back wheel, easing off. A few seconds later, before I could say "So, you were saying? " he started looking over his shoulder right and left in a panic, and blurted out "But, but I... I can't go as fast as you! "

So I dropped to a harder gear and spun it up again, quipping "that's a shame " and put a hundred metres or so on him before having to button off at the start of the restaurant strip.

Man, I miss those Michelin tubeless tyres. A bit skatey on loose-over-hardpack, but they rolled *really* well, even though they were full UST tubeless (no sealant required). I'm yet to find anything that rolls as well since.