Could Too Much Cycling Cause Heart Problems?

[redsonic]

ABC News article about a study in Bendigo:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-22/ ... /100234464

They are looking for recreational cyclists to participate in the research.

Dr Wundersitz is looking to put about 60 cyclists through a series of tests for the research.

The first test measures the rider's fitness, the second takes the participant to Bendigo Health to get their heart scanned.

The rider is then sent home with a monitoring device to measure their heart's regular electrical activity over five days.

The next part is six hours of endurance exercise at a moderate to high intensity,

[queequeg]

https://tiffo012.com/2021/05/29/will-lab-rat-for-data/

[g-boaf]

ABC News article about a study in Bendigo:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-22/ ... /100234464

They are looking for recreational cyclists to participate in the research.

Dr Wundersitz is looking to put about 60 cyclists through a series of tests for the research.

The first test measures the rider's fitness, the second takes the participant to Bendigo Health to get their heart scanned.

The rider is then sent home with a monitoring device to measure their heart's regular electrical activity over five days.

The next part is six hours of endurance exercise at a moderate to high intensity,

Is that 6 hours in one go, or just 6 hours across a 5 day period?

In the last two days and this morning I've done 7 hours 22 minutes of riding (endurance exercise) at moderate and high intensity. Piece of cake, no problem at all.

494 hours done this year. Aside from tired legs at time, I'm feeling very fit.

[warthog1]

I live in Bendigo.
Not sure if I cbfed having a go.
It sounds like a bit of a time investment is required.
I value my time off.
Like others, I am sure if it is doing damage, well, I should have noted it by now.
I have not.

[Nobody]

I live in Bendigo.
Not sure if I cbfed having a go.
It sounds like a bit of a time investment is required.
I value my time off.
Like others, I am sure if it is doing damage, well, I should have noted it by now.
I have not.

It might be worth the investment for piece of mind for you. From previous reading I believe it's a genetic variation that affects 1 in 20 people who spend a lot of time exercising intensely IIRC. Yes, unlikely. But nice to know for sure.

[AndrewCowley]

I'd consider giving it a crack. Seems like a free health check if nothing else. I do wonder at times if cycling 6 days a week poses a heart risk or not.

[jules21]

is wearing a flak jacket bad for your posture? the University of Academia is conducting a study of ADF soldiers who wore flak jackets while rotating tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. Of 53 subjects, 22 were unable to complete the study due to psychological conditions stemming from their experiences while serving. Another 2 were killed in action. 1 is receiving chemotherapy for lung cancer after his smoking increased dramatically during his service.

early results of the study show that the jackets may be associated with a moderate risk of spinal strains.

[AndrewCowley]

OT but not wearing a flak jacket could be very bad for your health. Death may result.

[warthog1]

It might be worth the investment for piece of mind for you. From previous reading I believe it's a genetic variation that affects 1 in 20 people who spend a lot of time exercising intensely IIRC. Yes, unlikely. But nice to know for sure.

Thanks mate
Been doing 8-10 hrs a week of cycling since around 07.
Am still able to hold a hr >180 when on an effort and my resting HR is in the low 50s.
Don't get chest pain and deal with people suffering ischaemic heart disease at work so am aware of risk factors and symptoms.
Have the ability to take and interpret my own 12 ld ecg, anything I was concerned with I can show to those smarter than myself (no shortage of those people around . )



Cycling is very important for my mental health and I plan to keep going.
I am confident what I am doing combined, with some dietary choices, is pretty cardio protective.
I might email him and see what it entails though.
However after 20 years of medical stuff at work I am trying to limit my exposure so I can survive until retirement.
Exposing myself to more isn't that interesting or inviting.

[jules21]

there was a fairly big longitudinal study on TdF riders. they punish their hearts over many years with very strenuous exertion. the result was that they had better long term health than the average population. I believe there is evidence that too much exertion can have detrimental health effects, but so does not exercising.

[warthog1]

is wearing a flak jacket bad for your posture? the University of Academia is conducting a study of ADF soldiers who wore flak jackets while rotating tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. Of 53 subjects, 22 were unable to complete the study due to psychological conditions stemming from their experiences while serving. Another 2 were killed in action. 1 is receiving chemotherapy for lung cancer after his smoking increased dramatically during his service.

early results of the study show that the jackets may be associated with a moderate risk of spinal strains.

Yeah there are some cr @p studies around.
Plenty around showing activity and exercise is good for the heart.
Low intensity exercise can't hurt you'd think. High intensity in high quantity maybe more dangerous.
I don't know the inclusion requirements and might need to email him to find out. I wasn't interested enough to fully read the links however

[warthog1]

there was a fairly big longitudinal study on TdF riders. they punish their hearts over many years with very strenuous exertion. the result was that they had better long term health than the average population. I believe there is evidence that too much exertion can have detrimental health effects, but so does not exercising.

Sorry I was typing my previous reply whilst you posted this.
Yeah agreed.

[ColinOldnCranky]

I'd consider giving it a crack. Seems like a free health check if nothing else. I do wonder at times if cycling 6 days a week poses a heart risk or not.

Speaking from experience, Andrew's thinking, IMHO, is the place where we should all start, regardless of how fit we are cardiovascular wise.

The associated five day test being offered is about electrics, a totally different beast to plumbing issues aka atherosclerosis/heart attack. Two different beasts. And the electrical ones are the ones that are almost always fatal, whereas blocked plumbing is commonly survived even without immediate first aid. Indeed, often without the subject even realising that they have had a heart attack.

Even as I was counting down to retirement, in an aorgansisation of 2000 employees I was a well recognised poster boy of fitness and health. Lean, well muscled, six pack, great cardio, seldom sick. It was built on three decases of bike commuting followed by a decade of unicycle commuting. At retirement I was doing over 8,000kms a year which, on a unicycle, equates to a second job. And that did not included gym work and other activity.

But, while the plumbing was close to excellent - no atherosclerosis - the electrics were waiting, un-diagnosed, to hit with no warning.

And THAT IS THE CRUX OF ELECTRICS. Electrical issues are seldom diagnosed until they hit. And that hit is usually in the form of an SCA, a Sudden Cardiac Arrest. And outside of hospital the chance of surviving an SCA is, in Oz, is between 7 and 10 percent. And if there is no immediate first aid those odds fall rapidly with every minute. And even with an immediate response if someone does not get a defib to you pronto then survival is zero, No exceptions. Your heart MUST have a jolt ASAP or you die.

So my advice to all you exemplars of fitness, if there is a free test on offer, sign up for the research. Just as Andrew is considering.

[warthog1]

But, while the plumbing was close to excellent - no atherosclerosis - the electrics were waiting, un-diagnosed, to hit with no warning.

And THAT IS THE CRUX OF ELECTRICS. Electrical issues are seldom diagnosed until they hit. And that hit is usually in the form of an SCA, a Sudden Cardiac Arrest. And outside of hospital the chance of surviving an SCA is, in Oz, is between 7 and 10 percent. And if there is no immediate first aid those odds fall rapidly with every minute. And even with an immediate response if someone does not get a defib to you pronto then survival is zero, No exceptions. Your heart MUST have a jolt ASAP or you die.

So my advice to all you exemplars of fitness, if there is a free test on offer, sign up for the research. Just as Andrew is considering.

There are multiple instances of cardiac arrhythmia daily all over the country.
Is there evidence that long term exercise is likely to increase the risk of VT, VF?
I've not heard of it thus far.
I've heard of changes/thickening of the muscle wall of the ventricle as a response to long term high intensity exercise. I am not a cardiologist however.
Here is one study showing damage is possible.
https://bcmj.org/articles/impact-excess ... cise-heart
Not a regular level of exercise involved though.

Yes for you it must have a significance given what you have experienced.
Is it confirmed that your exercise contributed to your arrhythmia?

I am not particularly concerned given my level of exercise. Far better that I do than don't, for my physical and mental health imo.

Good quality CPR can maintain enough perfusion of the brain for some time prior to defibrillation. Mechanical CPR even more so.
Yes unlikely to recieve both outside of hospital quickly.

[fat and old]

Colin sounds like one of the blokes here at work. Healthy dude, lean, six pack bla bla bla, can work the young Samoans into the ground at 55. Four weeks ago he went into have a heart check up (has a history of issues so is careful with health. Two day later calls me and lets me know he's off a month as they put a pacemaker in him. His heart had stopped for a while in January apparently. He has some doodad inside that records the heart activity. I woulda appreciated a little more notice TBH....

[ColinOldnCranky]

Is it confirmed that your exercise contributed to your arrhythmia?

No, it was not even suggested. Age, genetics, dehydration are some suspects in SCAs. My level of fitness was of benefit in recovery but had little to do with surviving the Arrest in the first place.

I am not particularly concerned given my level of exercise. Far better that I do than don't, for my physical and mental health imo.

Level of exercise! That is the misunderstanding - that healthy athleticism, a strong pair of lungs, robust heart muscle and good clear arteries will protect you. That is only true for atherosclerosis/hardened arteries/clogged arteries/underdeveloped lungs/coronary heart disease. But it is independent of dodgy electrics.

Electrical irregularities are commonly picked up when a person suffers angina or a heart attack. And so, paradoxically, very fit people are less likely to have a timely diagnosis. Hence my suggestion that those on this forum would be well advised to enrol in the research that may show arrhythmia or other irregularities that would otherwise remain hidden until too late.

I failed to mention one factor that we can control that is highly relevant to those on this forum. Dehydration is one of the factors that could trigger an SCA in someone predisposed so always stay well (not excessively) hydrated when out for a hard ride.

Re defibs, real world experience suggests that defib needs to be applied within minutes, with every minute counting. In my case a defib was not applied for at least eighteen minutes which, as a survivor, makes me a rare exception. Indeed, the cop first responder, my cardiologist and my GP all refer to me as their miracle case of which excellent cardio-health had little to do with. (Caution - A sample set of one is meaningless.) Two years later, still in extremely good health but still predisposed to electrical irregularities, I suffered a second SCA. I now carry my own defib buried under the skin over my chest.

[warthog1]

Level of exercise! That is the misunderstanding - that healthy athleticism, a strong pair of lungs, robust heart muscle and good clear arteries will protect you. That is true for atherosclerosis/hardened arteries/clogged arteries/underdeveloped lungs/coronary heart disease. But it is independent of dodgy electrics.

I said level of exercise because as I linked there is some evidence that extreme endurance can induce cardiomyopathy.
I don't exercise to that extent.

Electrical irregularities are commonly picked up when a person suffers angina or a heart attack. And so, paradoxically, very fit people are less likely you are to have a timely diagnosis. Hence my suggestion that those on this forum would be well advised to enrol in the research that may show arrhythmia or other irregularities that would otherwise remain hidden.

Yeah 20 years a taxi driver for Ambulance Victoria, otherwise known as a paramedic.
We have 12 ld equipment and training.
I have no ecg abnormalities but have previously had an episode of AF that was probably as a result of increased sympathetic tone.
Stressful period years ago and not repeated since.

You need to be in or near Bendigo it appeared to me as that is where the team is located.
I live there.
Not interested personally but others may be.

[warthog1]

Re defibs, Austyralian experience suggests that defib needs to be applied within minutes. In my case a defib was not applied for at least eighteen minutes which, as a survivor, makes me a rare exception. Indeed, the cop first responder, my cardiologist and my GP all refer to me as their miracle case of which excellent cardio-health had little to do with. (A sample set of one tells us nothing.) Still in extremely good health but still predisposed to electrical irregularities, two years later I had a second SCA. I now carry my own defib buried under the skin over my chest.

Whoever did your CPR saved your life and your brain function.
They did it well.

[ColinOldnCranky]

I have no ecg abnormalities but have previously had an episode of AF that was probably as a result of increased sympathetic tone.
Stressful period years ago and not repeated since.

I'm aware if the term "sympathetic" as in "sympathetic nervous system". But to save me going to Wikipedia, what is "sypathetic tone"? Just curious.

[warthog1]

I have no ecg abnormalities but have previously had an episode of AF that was probably as a result of increased sympathetic tone.
Stressful period years ago and not repeated since.

I'm aware if the term "sympathetic" as in "sympathetic nervous system". But to save me going to Wikipedia, what is "sypathetic tone"? Just curious.

Yes the sympathetic, as opposed to the parasympathetic, side of the autonomic nervous system. "Fight or flight" side resulting in increased HR.
https://www.msdmanuals.com/en-au/home/b ... ous-system

Increased sympathetic tone just means an increase in the influence of the "fight or flight" (sympathetic) side rather than the "rest and recline" side (parasympathetic) brought on in my case by an increase in stress.

[nemo57]

I put my hand up for this; haven't yet heard back.
At 64, retired, drink & smoke (less than I used to, but still ...), cake, ride, suffer, I've the time.
Late 2016 cardiologist found I had an arrhythmia >20% of the time. At that stage I'd not done any serious exercise for years. 2 years and 13000k on the bike later it was gone. Evidently I remain invincible.

[jules21]

I know a racing cyclist in his 60s with AF. He was tested with a VO2max of >80 but took the sport up later in life. he is an absolute beast.

He's obviously had it all checked out, but when his AF kicks in (due to strenuous efforts, such as when racing) he just pulls out and waits for it to subside. obviously I don't know that's going to work for everyone so seek medical advice.

but I guess the point is - AF doesn't mean the end of any exercise, necessarily. this bloke has survived some stuff though so he has a bit of a live life at 100% attitude.

[warthog1]

Yeah I am no Dr just an ambo. Atrial Fibrillation is one of the most common arrhythmias we come across. More common with age.
Commonly controlled with sometimes a rate controlling drug and an anticoagulant.
Blood relies on movement to avoid forming clots.
The top part of the heart (atria) fibrillating (firing in a chaotic uncontrolled pattern) means the atria do not contract properly and eject the blood properly.
It can then form clots.
Dangerous when they are ejected and lodge in other parts of the circulatory system causing a blockage. Ie in the brain, a stroke.

[Comedian]

I went on a ride a couple years back and we had a sprint. My hr went north of 180 which was odd for me. We stopped and it stayed up there. I rode home real slow and could barely get it below 130/140. Anyway was in AF for 48 hours which gave the docs plenty of time to look at it.

The options were The Quiet Life and live with it, drugs to slow it, or an ablation. In the end I had an ablation.. 30 burns. 12 months without problems so far.

[Lukeyboy]

there was a fairly big longitudinal study on TdF riders. they punish their hearts over many years with very strenuous exertion. the result was that they had better long term health than the average population. I believe there is evidence that too much exertion can have detrimental health effects, but so does not exercising.

There's a whole lot that doesn't really get covered and is quite difficult to detail in one study or multiple studies as you would need a very large and significant data sample and even then that varies from geographical location to geographical location (ie riding in the city vs riding in rural farming areas vs riding in rural areas next to an iron ore mine and loading facility etc). You have to remember they are on specific training plans, pre ride/ride/post ride routines, have people setting out their diet - basically they have a whole side supporting them that the majority of the population don't have or will never have access too. Your more likely to give yourself long term cardiovascular issues if you sit in a office chair for 8 hours and then do a 60 minute ride home with your hr right up there next to the clogged motorway breathing in large amounts of exhaust fumes thinking youre giving yourself a serious workout with no warm up/cool down day in and day out vs what a pro cyclist has become accustom to. And that's because both methods put strains on the heart in different ways and how the heart reacts/adapts in different ways. Infact you can even say how your body adapts aswell.