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Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 pm
by wan0614
Hi fellows,
I just got a good deal on a Kogan folding fat ebike and I would like to upgrade the gears so I can ride up the hill easier , the bike come with freefheel (Rear Gear) 6 speed 14-28 TZ-500-6 and a the chainring 52t.
What should I do to upgrade 7-9speed OR double chanring please?
Any professional advice is much appreciated!!
Thanks
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:47 am
by AUbicycles
Afraid this format for dropbox links doesn't work. If it is an ebike, wouldn't you just use power boost mode?
The short answer is that changing the front chain ring will be the easiest - just swap over the front chain ring.
You many not be able to simply add another chainring (and make it a double), it can mean new cranks or could impact the frame design (eg. chain spacing).
Assuming you simply change the front chain ring to a smaller one, the challenge though is to check that it is compatible so you want to find out what groupset brand and series it is and then check as some groupsets needs specific front and rear combinations (so ensure it shifts properly). If the chain length is too long, it may need to be shortened.
My first suggestion is to look for an only calculator to do the maths and help guide you to the appropriate front chain ring size. For example, you may discover that 50 tooth or 48 tooth chain ring won't give you a sufficient advantage, but a 44 tooth will (and does it exist?).
--
Chaining the cassette at the back usually needs a new wheel build and lots of new parts such as derailleur and maybe even shifters. That will start costing a bit of money in parts and service.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:04 am
by 10speedsemiracer
wan0614 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 pm
Hi fellows,
I just got a good deal on a Kogan folding fat ebike and I would like to upgrade the gears so I can ride up the hill easier , the bike come with freefheel (Rear Gear) 6 speed 14-28 TZ-500-6 and a the chainring 52t.
What should I do to upgrade 7-9speed OR double chanring please?
Any professional advice is much appreciated!!
Thanks
Pics didn't show up.
Have added them below....
The unknown nature of the existing crank/BB will make swapping the chainring very difficult. The existing crankset looks like a pressed steel affair, and the chainring doesn't appear to be removable. So a replacement single ring crank with a smaller chainring (e.g. 46t or 48t) would be the only option. This is assuming there's a
normal Bottom Bracket in there.
This swap would give a small benefit in climbing ability but would also impact top speed under pedaling.
I don't think a double crankset is going to happen as the frame looks to be designed for a single. Mounting a front derailleur looks like it will be difficult (almost impossible) to say the least. Add in a new shifter, adapters for cable stops and routing, and it becomes an ugly installation with questionable benefit.
The rear wheel is a threaded freewheel hub with the hub motor integrated, so you're limited to freewheels. No cassettes, which means no 8/9/10sp unfortunately.
The existing Tourney rear derailleur has a rated max of 28t and a min of 14t (which is what you have now), so unless this gets swapped there's no chance of putting on a different freewheel.
Basically, you're stuck with trying to swap the front chainring/crank for a smaller unit. Whether this would void your Warranty, I do not know but would suggest it probably would.
I would suggest taking it to an LBS that does a lot of e-Bike work and see if they can suggest a crank, but read your Warranty booklet first.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:58 am
by Mike Ayling
Does it really need that suspension fork and the extra fat tyres?
Mike
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:13 am
by MichaelB
Mike Ayling wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:58 am
Does it really need that suspension fork and the extra fat tyres?
Mike
But it was a good deal !!!
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:47 am
by MattyK
Surely a 14-34 freewheel would be easier? (if you can still find them, they seem to be rare now).
If you can't find a 6-speed one, then you could probably upgrade to a 7 speed freewheel, the rear derailleur should work with this, you'd just need a new shifter.
Or just Clarkson it. (MORE POWER!!!!!)
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:36 pm
by wan0614
Yes. You're right. The power motor do the good job uphill. But it will use much more power to boost to reduce the battery. Usually I could run 40km with single charge with 3 level pedal assist. It is so heavy bike 32kg compare to the MTB. If ran out of power, it is very difficult to ride even very little uphill. I think the best option is upgrade the crank or double chainring but very hard to find here. Also it would be the big challenge adding the front derailleur to the existing wheel.
Thanks for the information. I make more clear now.
AUbicycles wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:47 am
Afraid this format for dropbox links doesn't work. If it is an ebike, wouldn't you just use power boost mode?
The short answer is that changing the front chain ring will be the easiest - just swap over the front chain ring.
You many not be able to simply add another chainring (and make it a double), it can mean new cranks or could impact the frame design (eg. chain spacing).
Assuming you simply change the front chain ring to a smaller one, the challenge though is to check that it is compatible so you want to find out what groupset brand and series it is and then check as some groupsets needs specific front and rear combinations (so ensure it shifts properly). If the chain length is too long, it may need to be shortened.
My first suggestion is to look for an only calculator to do the maths and help guide you to the appropriate front chain ring size. For example, you may discover that 50 tooth or 48 tooth chain ring won't give you a sufficient advantage, but a 44 tooth will (and does it exist?).
--
Chaining the cassette at the back usually needs a new wheel build and lots of new parts such as derailleur and maybe even shifters. That will start costing a bit of money in parts and service.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:43 pm
by wan0614
Yes. It is so smooth out my ride even rocky terrain.
Mike Ayling wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:58 am
Does it really need that suspension fork and the extra fat tyres?
Mike
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:50 pm
by wan0614
Yes it is exactly what I have.
It has no warranty anyway because purchased in marketplace. I think this frame like the normal folding bike 14-28t freewheel. It could be upgrade but like what you said Mounting a front derailleur is the most difficult.
I found some people in Asia could upgrade double chainring and 8-9 speed for sure. But it would cost more.
10speedsemiracer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:04 am
wan0614 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 pm
Hi fellows,
I just got a good deal on a Kogan folding fat ebike and I would like to upgrade the gears so I can ride up the hill easier , the bike come with freefheel (Rear Gear) 6 speed 14-28 TZ-500-6 and a the chainring 52t.
What should I do to upgrade 7-9speed OR double chanring please?
Any professional advice is much appreciated!!
Thanks
Pics didn't show up.
Have added them below....
The unknown nature of the existing crank/BB will make swapping the chainring very difficult. The existing crankset looks like a pressed steel affair, and the chainring doesn't appear to be removable. So a replacement single ring crank with a smaller chainring (e.g. 46t or 48t) would be the only option. This is assuming there's a
normal Bottom Bracket in there.
This swap would give a small benefit in climbing ability but would also impact top speed under pedaling.
I don't think a double crankset is going to happen as the frame looks to be designed for a single. Mounting a front derailleur looks like it will be difficult (almost impossible) to say the least. Add in a new shifter, adapters for cable stops and routing, and it becomes an ugly installation with questionable benefit.
The rear wheel is a threaded freewheel hub with the hub motor integrated, so you're limited to freewheels. No cassettes, which means no 8/9/10sp unfortunately.
The existing Tourney rear derailleur has a rated max of 28t and a min of 14t (which is what you have now), so unless this gets swapped there's no chance of putting on a different freewheel.
Basically, you're stuck with trying to swap the front chainring/crank for a smaller unit. Whether this would void your Warranty, I do not know but would suggest it probably would.
I would suggest taking it to an LBS that does a lot of e-Bike work and see if they can suggest a crank, but read your Warranty booklet first.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:53 pm
by wan0614
The 6speed 14-34t is not easy to find. I could find them in AliExpress I think but I need to upgrade the rear derailleur and chain as well.
MattyK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:47 am
Surely a 14-34 freewheel would be easier? (if you can still find them, they seem to be rare now).
If you can't find a 6-speed one, then you could probably upgrade to a 7 speed freewheel, the rear derailleur should work with this, you'd just need a new shifter.
Or just Clarkson it. (MORE POWER!!!!!)
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm
by 10speedsemiracer
The 14-34 6sp freewheel will have issues with the TZ-500 rear derailleur (actually, the other way around) in terms of clearance. Shimano are often a bit conservative with their specs, and they say 28t is the max for that derailleur. In a single chainring application 30t should be viable, maybe even 32t with the 'B' screw wound right in but this doesn't give you much improvement up hills.
Better to swap the front. So lose the pressed steel chainring/crank and swap it out for a good 44t or 46t Sugino or whatever chainring/crankset. This will probably need a new BB cartridge, although looking at the bike this would probably be a good thing.
So maybe $100 for a Sugino crank and 46t ring, add another $25 for a Shimano un-300 BB, and that would be a better option for hill-climbing. Can probably find slightly cheaper options for cranks from Lasco or wherever, so do the research.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:20 pm
by Duck!
10speedsemiracer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm
The 14-34 6sp freewheel will have issues with the TZ-500 rear derailleur (actually, the other way around) in terms of clearance. Shimano are often a bit conservative with their specs, and they say 28t is the max for that derailleur. In a single chainring application 30t should be viable, maybe even 32t with the 'B' screw wound right in but this doesn't give you much improvement up hills.
Chainring size/configuration is irrelevant. Although the TX/TY/TZ-series Tourney derailleurs are theoretically capable of taking up to a 34T sprocket, the low-grade construction means they get argumentative when you get that big. Problem with freewheel clusters is the options are limited, and you either go 28 or 34T big sprocket - there is nothing in between.
The harsh truth is that we're talking about trying to polish a turd here....
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:55 pm
by 10speedsemiracer
Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:20 pm
10speedsemiracer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm
The 14-34 6sp freewheel will have issues with the TZ-500 rear derailleur (actually, the other way around) in terms of clearance. Shimano are often a bit conservative with their specs, and they say 28t is the max for that derailleur. In a single chainring application 30t should be viable, maybe even 32t with the 'B' screw wound right in but this doesn't give you much improvement up hills.
Chainring size/configuration is irrelevant. Although the TX/TY/TZ-series Tourney derailleurs are theoretically capable of taking up to a 34T sprocket, the low-grade construction means they get argumentative when you get that big. Problem with freewheel clusters is the options are limited, and you either go 28 or 34T big sprocket - there is nothing in between.
The harsh truth is that we're talking about trying to polish a turd here....
Tks Duck, I will admit I've never tried jamming one of these under a 34t but the floppy-jalopy build makes them a horrible thing to use at the best of times.
Can't even imagine how bad the shifting would be under a mega-range freewheel.
And I think
turd is being kind..
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:18 pm
by MattyK
OK; if it's this model then ignore what I said.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 00-GS.html
I thought it went to 34. Certainly the 6/7 speed ones do (Tourney TX/TY). You could swap the rear derailleur also if necessary, but 7 speed would be the max without changing the rear hub to a freehub.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:50 pm
by 10speedsemiracer
MattyK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:18 pm
.
.
(snip)
You could swap the rear derailleur also if necessary, but 7 speed would be the max without changing the rear hub to a freehub.
Can't swap the rear hub (is a hub-motor e-bike from what I can tell) so stuck with threaded freewheels. And a 7sp freewheel on a heavy, hub-driven e-bike sounds like a recipe for a bent/broken axle.
I don't think anything worthwhile can be done with this thing. Weird frame, cheap e-drivetrain, cheap components.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:01 am
by wan0614
I totally agree what you said. The best option is change chainring/crank then 34t is worth to upgrade too.
All cheap components, really not worth spending too much for upgrade.
Well. But ireally interested the gears/speeds upgrading because not many people do. I don't even find any video or post on the web.
I've one more question is that 32kg is really heavy ebike? I found most fat tyre eBike at least 28kg.
Also I'm really interested the difference between 20" inch eBike and normal mountain bike (for example Reid Xeon 29) going uphill. How much effort you need to give without the electric motor. I'm struggling after did a lot of research and get to know more about the gears, brake and weight etc. I realised most standard electric bike in the market with all cheap components installed except the ebike over $1500 which is not safe for going to work daily.
10speedsemiracer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm
The 14-34 6sp freewheel will have issues with the TZ-500 rear derailleur (actually, the other way around) in terms of clearance. Shimano are often a bit conservative with their specs, and they say 28t is the max for that derailleur. In a single chainring application 30t should be viable, maybe even 32t with the 'B' screw wound right in but this doesn't give you much improvement up hills.
Better to swap the front. So lose the pressed steel chainring/crank and swap it out for a good 44t or 46t Sugino or whatever chainring/crankset. This will probably need a new BB cartridge, although looking at the bike this would probably be a good thing.
So maybe $100 for a Sugino crank and 46t ring, add another $25 for a Shimano un-300 BB, and that would be a better option for hill-climbing. Can probably find slightly cheaper options for cranks from Lasco or wherever, so do the research.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:06 am
by wan0614
Thanks for the info.
I found this answer just today too but your one is more specific TX/TY. I found the tx-55 is compatible with 34t. I think no point change the 7 speed except the front could do double chainring.
MattyK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:18 pm
OK; if it's this model then ignore what I said.
https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/ ... 00-GS.html
I thought it went to 34. Certainly the 6/7 speed ones do (Tourney TX/TY). You could swap the rear derailleur also if necessary, but 7 speed would be the max without changing the rear hub to a freehub.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:09 am
by wan0614
I think so too. Maybe 34t only do a little bit better uphill, really not big difference running the single chainring.
Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:20 pm
10speedsemiracer wrote: ↑Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:42 pm
The 14-34 6sp freewheel will have issues with the TZ-500 rear derailleur (actually, the other way around) in terms of clearance. Shimano are often a bit conservative with their specs, and they say 28t is the max for that derailleur. In a single chainring application 30t should be viable, maybe even 32t with the 'B' screw wound right in but this doesn't give you much improvement up hills.
Chainring size/configuration is irrelevant. Although the TX/TY/TZ-series Tourney derailleurs are theoretically capable of taking up to a 34T sprocket, the low-grade construction means they get argumentative when you get that big. Problem with freewheel clusters is the options are limited, and you either go 28 or 34T big sprocket - there is nothing in between.
The harsh truth is that we're talking about trying to polish a turd here....
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:52 am
by 10speedsemiracer
wan0614 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:01 am
I totally agree what you said. The best option is change chainring/crank then 34t is worth to upgrade too.
All cheap components, really not worth spending too much for upgrade.
Well. But ireally interested the gears/speeds upgrading because not many people do. I don't even find any video or post on the web.
I've one more question is that 32kg is really heavy ebike? I found most fat tyre eBike at least 28kg.
.
.
(snip)
32kg (70lbs) is an awful lot of weight. Typically, hybrid type e-bikes (full size) are around the 17-22kg mark depending on how many $s you've spent.
Considering it's a small form factor with 20" tyres, 32kg is surprisingly chunky. No doubt this will make it hard to get up hills. That, and the tyres, and the gearing.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:07 am
by MichaelB
wan0614 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:01 am
...
Well. But ireally interested the gears/speeds upgrading because not many people do. I don't even find any video or post on the web.
...
As much as I love to do things different and try new ways of doing things, sometimes, the lack of anyone else trying to do what you want is a sign.
Don't do it.
I have no idea how much the bike costs, but as you are finding out, it's heavy, cheap for a reason (low end quality), and not good at hills.
Re: Folding eBike Gears/Speed upgrade from 6 speeds
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2022 1:05 am
by sneakypete
wan0614 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:10 pm
Hi fellows,
I just got a good deal on a Kogan folding fat ebike and I would like to upgrade the gears so I can ride up the hill easier , the bike come with freefheel (Rear Gear) 6 speed 14-28 TZ-500-6 and a the chainring 52t.
What should I do to upgrade 7-9speed OR double chanring please?
Any professional advice is much appreciated!!
Thanks
Gday just wondering did you end up changing anything on this bike? 14-34t and changing rear derailer and front ring? Would be great to know as I was just given this heavy beast as a gift so trying to polish this beautiful turd..a little
