Llewellyn Discus Colossus build thread !

[MichaelB]

Never trust manufacturers' ERDs, always measure yourself with consideration for the particular spoke calculator you choose, because they vary with nipple head inclusion or not as well!

Very true, but how do I measure something which I don’t have in my hot little hands !

I have to do some level of finger crossing as I’m trying to replace a rim and reuse existing spokes and hubs.

I can measure the old rim, but not the replacement one.

[MichaelB]

What has been interesting is the differences in pricing, options and warranty.

Pricing varies from a low of US$145 for the Carbonal D21-33 to a High of US$251 for the Light Bicycle Falcon Pro AR35 Flyweight. MNextie is also up there at US$230

Warranty goes from a low of 6 months for eiecarbon to a surprising 5 years for Carbonal !! Nextie is next best at 3 years. Light Bicycle is either 3 or 5 years depending on the version you buy.

With Yishun, you have to 'enquire' to get costs.

The Serenade has malware warning, so will leave them well alone -thanks though. Their offering that was linked was pretty similar to others.

The shipping will be interesting, but I'll probably end up getting a pair so that I have a spare just in case the crap happens again !!

[MichaelB]

For 2 rims, shipping for the most likely candidates are (all via EMS)

Nextie USD$83
Light Bicycle USD$79
Carbonal USD$60

Hmmmmm

[find_bruce]

Yep, parcel shipping costs depend on volume as well as weight - rims are light but the volume costs

[blizzard]

Probably not much help but I almost ordered a set of Carbonal wheels, they're customer service was very prompt. I chickened out as there were no reviews of them at the time, and went with LB for a couple hundred more.

[MichaelB]

Probably not much help but I almost ordered a set of Carbonal wheels, they're customer service was very prompt. I chickened out as there were no reviews of them at the time, and went with LB for a couple hundred more.

All good. They have been around for a while so that’s a start and they have a good range.

The ERD will be the critical part

[Duck!]

I had a set of Carbonals on my MTB that was nicked last year, were faultless. Broke a spoke once when I put a tree through the rear wheel, not a mark on the rim. Just finished building up another pair for that bike's replacement. I also built a pair of road wheels with Carbonal rims for a friend, and they're still going strong, although they are a bit pulsy under braking, but that may also be the pad compound - obviously irrelevant for disc brakes.

So positive vibes from me re: Carbonal

[MichaelB]

I had a set of Carbonals on my MTB that was nicked last year, were faultless. Broke a spoke once when I put a tree through the rear wheel, not a mark on the rim. Just finished building up another pair for that bike's replacement. I also built a pair of road wheels with Carbonal rims for a friend, and they're still going strong, although they are a bit pulsy under braking, but that may also be the pad compound - obviously irrelevant for disc brakes.

So positive vibes from me re: Carbonal

Cheers. Much appreciated

[MichaelB]

Spreadsheet as promised !



If the ERD is right, the Carbonal rims seem to stack up quite well !!

[MichaelB]

Started dismantling the rear wheel yesterday arvo. Discovered that Hunt used the DTSwiss Squorx nipples, and some of them are suffering.

So, managed to find a source of Black brass ones and the driver for a reasonable price, so ordered them. Will continue disassembling the rear wheel and try and work out the ERD to suss out what to order.

Standby to standby

[familyguy]

Sheesh, the more I hear about Hunt wheels, the less they appeal.

[MichaelB]

Sheesh, the more I hear about Hunt wheels, the less they appeal.

To be fair, it was a decent pothole hit at 55km/hr with a decent sized wombat aboard. I was able to ride home without issue.

The nipple bit is me being fussy as a normal nipple (which I have plenty spare would also work. So in reality, an unnecessary buy , but ……..

[Duck!]

Aluminium nipples in carbon rims is standard industry malpractice, so I wouldn't be any harsher on Hunt than ayone else for that...... (But DT "squorx" are a pain in the proverbial.)

[familyguy]

Fair enough.

Though if something is genuinely not rebuildable, it had better be backed by a 100% replacement warranty for a good period of time! </rant>

[MichaelB]

Progress Update :

Damaged Hunt rear wheel (pothole impact) finally disassembled and ERD measured.
Without nipple head measurement, comes out to 569mm.
Thin nipple washers were used by Hunt, so need to find the 5 that got lost by me somewhere
Found mistake in some of the ERD’s in the above table, so corrected that (phew).

Next steps :
Decide on which rim !
Add replacement rim to fix older Farsports MTB rim
Look at ordering more nipple washers !


@nd update : Order submitted

2 x D21-38's (24H) and 1 x D21-22 (32H) ordered. Now to wait .....

[MichaelB]

...
@nd update : Order submitted

2 x D21-38's (24H) and 1 x D21-22 (32H) ordered. Now to wait .....

Well, whilst on holiday in Bali, the rims arrived. A quick check once home showed them to look pretty schmick, but need to sit down and have a proper look over the weekend. And double check the ERD of the original Hunt's
The original order for additional nipples (as spares) never arrived, but the T-handle driver did (even though they were ordered from the same supplier at the same time in a single order - a quick message via fleabay saw a refund come though, but then had to find another supplier. Funnily enough, an Aussie supplier was cheapest, and they are on their way via Aus Snail post ....

Some great weather here atm, so the Llewellyn is now up to 3,843km and still loving it. The steed got a well overdue wash on Sunday, and due for another ride tonight.

[MichaelB]

[sigh]

Hot of the success of the replacement Carbonal rim working on the ICAN wheelset, I grabbed some time during lunch to quickly lace up the dead rear Hunt rim .....

Nope, the ERD was too far out (about 5mm too big) so even with the nipples almost fully done up, it's all still loose as buggery

The end result is that I need to go back to the dwg board and see what can be done with the spokes I have on hand (and none of them are straight pull), whether there are any hubs that can easily fit the the ERD and parts available, or just build a full wheelset out of what I have and park the Hunt hubs and front rim ..

PFBB

[/sigh]

EDIT : One ray of sunshine though - managed to find the Hunt Hub dimensions - straight pull, so hopefully that will assist.

Also found some links to some spokes, but the only ones that are somewhat affordable are from aliexpress ...

[Duck!]

Ask around the local shops, someone will probably have a spoke threading machine and be able to trim & rethread the spokes for you.

[MichaelB]

Ask around the local shops, someone will probably have a spoke threading machine and be able to trim & rethread the spokes for you.

Cheers, that may well be an option.

Mind you, I need to ensure that I get the length right, so need to sit down with the DT Swiss calculator and make sure I get it right, either way !

[MichaelB]

.....
The end result is that I need to go back to the dwg board and see what can be done with the spokes I have on hand (and none of them are straight pull), whether there are any hubs that can easily fit the the ERD and parts available, or just build a full wheelset out of what I have and park the Hunt hubs and front rim ..


EDIT : One ray of sunshine though - managed to find the Hunt Hub dimensions - straight pull, so hopefully that will assist.

Hmmmm, using a combination of info from the Hunt website and the DT Swiss calculator, I can't get the 'calculated' spoke length to match what the dimensions are from the Hunt website, so will now disassemble the wheel and remeasure everything so that I can get confidence in what the right spoke lengths are

That will include measuring ERD several ways so that I get a correct number, measure the existing spoke length (there are some potentially conflicting details from the Hunt website, measure the hubs myself to compare to the dimensions provided and then work out the actual spoke lengths that I need.

A bit frustrated, but that's life

At least the weather has come good again and getting in some good riding !

[MichaelB]

Just learned the GOLDEN RULE of wheelbuilding ..... again.

NEVER trust the dimensions supplied by others

The dimensions given from the Hunt website were as follows with (actual in brackets)

NDS Flange dia - 43mm (53mm)
DS Flange dia - 34 (44mm)

NDS Flange Dist - 33.75mm (34.5mm)
DS Flange Dist - 17.55mm (16.45mm)

Spoke length - Rear NDS - 292mm (287mm)
Spoke length - Rear DS - 290mm (284mm)

Plumbing the measured numbers in the DT Swiss calc yields calculated spoke lengths of 287.6 for NDS, and 285.2 for DS, so have some faith in my measurements of the hub, but will double check again over the weekend.

So they were close .....

[Duck!]

With Hunt, like many other wheel brands being a parts assembler rather than proper manufacturer, the specs of their sourced parts can be very subject to change, so the rule of doing your own measurements very much applies.

If dealing with parts from an actual manufacturer the supplied measurements are very reliable, although it's still worth checking for yourself, because sometimes the parameters used don't directly fit with those used in most spoke calculators - I'm particularly channelling Shimano with their flange distance measurements here...... Where most state the flange distances from the centre of the hub, Shimano list the distance between the flanges, and an offset from centre, to the NDS on a rear hub, and the non-brake side on a front, if applicable. In this instance, split the flange distance in half, then add the offset to the rear NDS or front NBS, and subtract the same from the opposing sides to find your centre-flange measurements....

[MichaelB]

Yeah, hear you re Hunt. They have so many different models and variants, it must be hard to keep the websites etc updated.

Anyway.... worked it all out and updated the DT Calculator and also managed to find some reasonably priced local sources (not bladed, but round) for ~ $1/spoke. They came from MTB Direct and were between $18 - $22 per pack of 18 spokes.

I wasn't going to pay between $3 - $8 per spoke when I wasn't 100% sure of the correct length !!

[MichaelB]

Did a great loop on the way home from work yesterday - 36km and 600m elevation gain. Great way to finish the day. Have so far just clocked up 4,070km to date on it. Loved every one of them !!

I've always had a hankering for one of Daz's lugged stems, but the downside is that he only makes them (and sells them) with a lugged frame of his. No issues there. Sadly, none of his lugged frames are disc.

The big issue is that with his well deserved impending retirement, do I try and get another Llewellyn .....

I'd love a lugged one, but it'd have to be able to do something different from the Discus Colossus, but it appears that the last "CX" frame may be taken.

Gotta make my mind up quick ......

[MichaelB]

I knew it was coming soon, and damn I wrestled with the idea of getting another one, but in the end I remembered the saying

"Want what you have"

Per the details below, you have until 22nd Dec 23 to place an order with a deposit to secure a piece of Aussie history.

I still have great pleasure every time I get on mine, and also had a brilliant time meeting him and MAM, and getting to spend some time driving his trains !

The Llewellyn Order book is closing.
I will only be accepting new Llewellyn frame sets and or full bicycle orders up to and including Friday 22 Dec 2023 and then the Llewellyn order book will close.
Lugged frames are the genuine soul of Llewelyn Custom Bicycles, it is where I started with Eric at Hoffy Cycles in 1979, then Llewellyn frames from 1989 to the present day and I will finish the current order book with lugged frame construction.
From today 24/11/2023 there will only be new places available for lugged Llewellyn rim brake frame sets with the exception of:
• one “Discus Colossus” Rim braked frame set
• one “Discus Colossus” Disc braked frame set
All other new frame orders will be lugged, rim brake frame sets.
If you wish to get in the queue before the order book is closed email me darrell@llewellynbikes.com and or phone me for more details. Ph +61 7 3353 3368.
A $1000.00 non-refundable deposit will secure your place in possibly the last Llewellyn queue.
I cannot confirm what the future of the Llewellyn order book will be past 2026 as I have other paths to pursue, however I will be re-evaluating my frame building situation when that time arrives and the current queue of orders is completed.
I will still continue to offer Llewellyn Lugs and castings to other frame builders till I complete the queue in approx. 2.5- 3 years’ time. What happens after that is an unanswerable question at this time.
If you’re in the queue, wait patiently till I work through each frame set and bicycle in turn till I get your build place in the queue.
Cheers Dazza.

https://www.facebook.com/darrell.mccull ... =-UC%2CP-R