New road bike. What's your desire ?

[elantra]

……..
Sounds like the carbon frames are a bit softer to ride, must have a go one day.

Titanium feels a bit more springy, but the bike has carbon forks and wheels so likely somewhere in between.

DS

My experience is a little different, and probably reflects what other commentators have stated - that tyre and wheel factors count for more than frame material.

I did have a full carbon frame bike for a few years - but eventually sold it because I found it rather harsh on the c#appy road surface descents in my area - northern NSW.

This was a “Team Discovery” Trek Road bike, basically very similar to what Lance was riding in the early 2000’s.
I suspect its harsh ride was partly due to its STRAIGHT FORKS.
And it had very limited tyre clearance so would fit nothing bigger than 23mm tyres.
(OK, some brands of 25mm tyres would just fit)

I found that my aluminium bike (Taiwan made) was more comfortable on course road surfaces while descending - but bear in mind it has carbon forks with a traditional slightly curved rake.
(This aluminium bike also has enough clearance for a 25mm tyre at the front)

The other day I did an iconic ride in southern Qld - Canungra up to O’Reilly’s and back.
It has long but mostly gradual descent - about 20 km.
One of the riders in our group had a very flashy new carbon frame Road bike.
I caught him and passed him on the descent which was very surprising because he has a reputation of being a fast descender - which I am not.
He told me at the bottom of the descent that he had been struggling with the “c#appy road surface”. My Aluminium bike seemed to handle it better than his carbon bike.
But again it could have been just because I might have been running lower tyre pressures …

[DavidS]

……..
Sounds like the carbon frames are a bit softer to ride, must have a go one day.

Titanium feels a bit more springy, but the bike has carbon forks and wheels so likely somewhere in between.

DS

My experience is a little different, and probably reflects what other commentators have stated - that tyre and wheel factors count for more than frame material.

I did have a full carbon frame bike for a few years - but eventually sold it because I found it rather harsh on the c#appy road surface descents in my area - northern NSW.

This was a “Team Discovery” Trek Road bike, basically very similar to what Lance was riding in the early 2000’s.
I suspect its harsh ride was partly due to its STRAIGHT FORKS.
And it had very limited tyre clearance so would fit nothing bigger than 23mm tyres.
(OK, some brands of 25mm tyres would just fit)

I found that my aluminium bike (Taiwan made) was more comfortable on course road surfaces while descending - but bear in mind it has carbon forks with a traditional slightly curved rake.
(This aluminium bike also has enough clearance for a 25mm tyre at the front)

The other day I did an iconic ride in southern Qld - Canungra up to O’Reilly’s and back.
It has long but mostly gradual descent - about 20 km.
One of the riders in our group had a very flashy new carbon frame Road bike.
I caught him and passed him on the descent which was very surprising because he has a reputation of being a fast descender - which I am not.
He told me at the bottom of the descent that he had been struggling with the “c#appy road surface”. My Aluminium bike seemed to handle it better than his carbon bike.
But again it could have been just because I might have been running lower tyre pressures …

I think the message coming through is - it depends!

Often the case with all sorts of things, the implementation is more important than the actual technology/material used.

I still must find a carbon bike and ride it around the block just for curiosity.

DS

[g-boaf]

……..
Sounds like the carbon frames are a bit softer to ride, must have a go one day.

Titanium feels a bit more springy, but the bike has carbon forks and wheels so likely somewhere in between.

DS

My experience is a little different, and probably reflects what other commentators have stated - that tyre and wheel factors count for more than frame material.

I did have a full carbon frame bike for a few years - but eventually sold it because I found it rather harsh on the c#appy road surface descents in my area - northern NSW.

This was a “Team Discovery” Trek Road bike, basically very similar to what Lance was riding in the early 2000’s.
I suspect its harsh ride was partly due to its STRAIGHT FORKS.
And it had very limited tyre clearance so would fit nothing bigger than 23mm tyres.
(OK, some brands of 25mm tyres would just fit)

I found that my aluminium bike (Taiwan made) was more comfortable on course road surfaces while descending - but bear in mind it has carbon forks with a traditional slightly curved rake.
(This aluminium bike also has enough clearance for a 25mm tyre at the front)

The other day I did an iconic ride in southern Qld - Canungra up to O’Reilly’s and back.
It has long but mostly gradual descent - about 20 km.
One of the riders in our group had a very flashy new carbon frame Road bike.
I caught him and passed him on the descent which was very surprising because he has a reputation of being a fast descender - which I am not.
He told me at the bottom of the descent that he had been struggling with the “c#appy road surface”. My Aluminium bike seemed to handle it better than his carbon bike.
But again it could have been just because I might have been running lower tyre pressures …

My old Giant TCR (2014 Advanced SL1 ISP) was a good bike for descents. It was very stable. The ISP had a reputation for harshness. All the bumps went straight through it to the rider.

The Canyon Ultimate also good. Though I’d love to try a regular Ultimate CF SLX with the normal carbon versus the CF Evo to see if they feel any different.

[warthog1]

……..
Sounds like the carbon frames are a bit softer to ride, must have a go one day.

Titanium feels a bit more springy, but the bike has carbon forks and wheels so likely somewhere in between.

DS

My experience is a little different, and probably reflects what other commentators have stated - that tyre and wheel factors count for more than frame material.

I did have a full carbon frame bike for a few years - but eventually sold it because I found it rather harsh on the c#appy road surface descents in my area - northern NSW.

This was a “Team Discovery” Trek Road bike, basically very similar to what Lance was riding in the early 2000’s.
I suspect its harsh ride was partly due to its STRAIGHT FORKS.
And it had very limited tyre clearance so would fit nothing bigger than 23mm tyres.
(OK, some brands of 25mm tyres would just fit)

I found that my aluminium bike (Taiwan made) was more comfortable on course road surfaces while descending - but bear in mind it has carbon forks with a traditional slightly curved rake.
(This aluminium bike also has enough clearance for a 25mm tyre at the front)

The other day I did an iconic ride in southern Qld - Canungra up to O’Reilly’s and back.
It has long but mostly gradual descent - about 20 km.
One of the riders in our group had a very flashy new carbon frame Road bike.
I caught him and passed him on the descent which was very surprising because he has a reputation of being a fast descender - which I am not.
He told me at the bottom of the descent that he had been struggling with the “c#appy road surface”. My Aluminium bike seemed to handle it better than his carbon bike.
But again it could have been just because I might have been running lower tyre pressures …

I think the message coming through is - it depends!

Often the case with all sorts of things, the implementation is more important than the actual technology/material used.

I still must find a carbon bike and ride it around the block just for curiosity.

DS

Yes you can find stiff riding carbon and smoother riding.
My understanding is it can be altered with shape and carbon fibre "layup".
Currently I have 4 CF frames and they all ride a bit differently. All relatively stiff around the bottom bracket but none ride particularly harshly, though the S5 is not what you would call plush.
That is another advantage of the material. It allows a variation and increase in the cross section. A larger cross section adds strength. The carbon layup can be altered elsewhere to give vertical compliance for a smoother ride.
My newest bike the Merida Reacto is very stiff around the bb. The designers have taken a lump out of the seat post to add compliance there.

Seems to work well enough and it has clearance for ~32 mm wide tyres that further allows lower pressure and comfort. It is more than fast enough for these ageing legs but is comfy enough for long rides. My older Cervelo S5 is probably a touch faster but doesn't have clearance for anything larger than a 25. It doesn't get ridden anymore as a result.

[g-boaf]

If your bike supports it - this seat post works wonders for adding comfort:

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/gear/bike- ... 48286.html

[jasonc]

Yes you can find stiff riding carbon and smoother riding.
My understanding is it can be altered with shape and carbon fibre "layup".
Currently I have 4 CF frames and they all ride a bit differently. All relatively stiff around the bottom bracket but none ride particularly harshly, though the S5 is not what you would call plush.
That is another advantage of the material. It allows a variation and increase in the cross section. A larger cross section adds strength. The carbon layup can be altered elsewhere to give vertical compliance for a smoother ride.
My newest bike the Merida Reacto is very stiff around the bb. The designers have taken a lump out of the seat post to add compliance there.

Seems to work well enough and it has clearance for ~32 mm wide tyres that further allows lower pressure and comfort. It is more than fast enough for these ageing legs but is comfy enough for long rides. My older Cervelo S5 is probably a touch faster but doesn't have clearance for anything larger than a 25. It doesn't get ridden anymore as a result.

My first carbon roadie was a Fuji SST.

It was a very stiff ride. power transfer was awesome. That frame had no flex.

[AndrewCowley]

If your bike supports it - this seat post works wonders for adding comfort:

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/gear/bike- ... 48286.html

Looks like the saddle tilt is adjusted by sliding the two halves of the seat post up and down. Is this a bit awkward? Seat posts often sit fairly tightly in the seat tube, so wondering how easy it is to make this adjustment?

Also would be the case that removing the seat post all together means your tilt adjustment is lost?

[warthog1]

My first carbon roadie was a Fuji SST.

It was a very stiff ride. power transfer was awesome. That frame had no flex.

Nice

[g-boaf]

If your bike supports it - this seat post works wonders for adding comfort:

https://www.canyon.com/en-au/gear/bike- ... 48286.html

Looks like the saddle tilt is adjusted by sliding the two halves of the seat post up and down. Is this a bit awkward? Seat posts often sit fairly tightly in the seat tube, so wondering how easy it is to make this adjustment?

Also would be the case that removing the seat post all together means your tilt adjustment is lost?

There is a fastening inside it that makes that work, it's not too difficult.

It has been extremely long time since I've done that adjustment - only when I got the bike with it and then never touched it again.

Edit: Canyon has a video showing how to setup that seat post:



That video is good, very clear. The S15 is the same type seat post, just more set back.

One note: The saddle rail clamps are available in two versions, one for alloy saddle rails, the other for carbon. Those clamps are available from Canyon quite easily. The tool used in the video is just the canyon supplied torque wrench that comes with their bikes. You can use any other torque wrench (probably better).

[Mr Purple]

I think the whole 'carbon smooth/aluminium rough' thing is an oversimplification and depends greatly on your frame design, contact points (carbon rail saddle/seatpost/bars) and tyre pressures. I think the difference I felt between the Bowman Palace and Focus Izalco was more a tuning out of the 'buzz' which you tend to get with aluminium frames running narrow tyres under high pressures (25mm/80PSI in my case).

A lot of this can be negated by running wider tyres at lower pressures tubeless. Having said that while my bike was being rebuilt I took out my old and now sadly deceased Avanti Giro running the original aluminium bars on a 75km/1600m ride. One of my dental implants literally unscrewed from its abutment over the course of that ride and I had to go back and see the dentist to get it reaffixed with their tiny little torque wrench. Now that's road buzz!

Having said that given the budget these days I'd largely go carbon over aluminium. Although my gravel bike is alloy that's mainly a product of a) budget and b) alloy bikes being faster because you don't care so much. I still have a carbon saddle, seatpost, wheels and bars on it and each one of those made a significant difference to comfort.

[warthog1]

I think the whole 'carbon smooth/aluminium rough' thing is an oversimplification and depends greatly on your frame design, contact points (carbon rail saddle/seatpost/bars) and tyre pressures. I think the difference I felt between the Bowman Palace and Focus Izalco was more a tuning out of the 'buzz' which you tend to get with aluminium frames running narrow tyres under high pressures (25mm/80PSI in my case).

A lot of this can be negated by running wider tyres at lower pressures tubeless. Having said that while my bike was being rebuilt I took out my old and now sadly deceased Avanti Giro running the original aluminium bars on a 75km/1600m ride. One of my dental implants literally unscrewed from its abutment over the course of that ride and I had to go back and see the dentist to get it reaffixed with their tiny little torque wrench. Now that's road buzz!

Having said that given the budget these days I'd largely go carbon over aluminium. Although my gravel bike is alloy that's mainly a product of a) budget and b) alloy bikes being faster because you don't care so much. I still have a carbon saddle, seatpost, wheels and bars on it and each one of those made a significant difference to comfort.

Carbon fork too?
My revolt is carbon and has ~22k km on it now. It wasn't expensive so the care factor has declined here too.
I do try to look after my bikes a bit, but my maintenance routine could be a lot better.

[Mr Purple]

The Avanti actually had a carbon front fork and some sort of weird carbon arrangement with the chainstays. It didn't seem to work in the slightest, but it was built circa 2007.

I'm actually pretty sure carbon is just as resilient as alloy for a gravel bike anyway. But I hate staring at every little scratch and ding thinking 'is that ok?'. Also the fact that the alloy was about a grand cheaper means it goes faster!

[g-boaf]

The design and manufacturing of the bikes are way better now so even the aero bikes are fairly comfortable in terms of their ride quality and we use wider tyres.

I'd say even my S5 is quite comfortable given what it is, definitely less harsh than my old Giant TCRs. Only difference is the S5 is very low at the front and very short wheelbase so if you aren't flexible it's not going to work unless you have the spacer kit for the stem.

My bikes are all high mileage as well but they all go well because like others, I look after them.

I would like to get the chips in the paint on the S5 fixed up. That happened last year when the bike was being transferred from Cuneo in Italy to Breil sur Roya. I stupidly didn't take photos of the bike before I handed it over to the organisers, so couldn't prove anything. But I know it had no scratches or chips before that.

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-qBL ... BL8jcM.jpg

You can see them under the Sunweb logo at the back. And not there a few days before:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-LxZ ... xZWQfF.jpg

[warthog1]

I can't see them GB, but it is a beautiful looking bike and well looked after

[g-boaf]

I can't see them GB, but it is a beautiful looking bike and well looked after

It might need a visit to Mr Carbon Bike Doctor - he's brilliant. I see he is at Somersby these days, much easier to get to than his old location which was a nightmare, one road in, one road out.

I'm fastidious with my bikes, same with anything I have I look after carefully. The chips can be seen on the image with the river in the background. That was final day. I didn't stay out in the sun too long there - it was properly roasting, well over 30ºC already.

[warthog1]

Ah yes, spotted under the web part of Sunweb. That would be annoying, when it has obviously been so well looked after.

[Calvin27]

I'm actually pretty sure carbon is just as resilient as alloy for a gravel bike anyway. But I hate staring at every little scratch and ding thinking 'is that ok?'. Also the fact that the alloy was about a grand cheaper means it goes faster!

Wait until you go raw titanium. Ding bangs and scratches are why it's the material of choice for gravel bikes. Not expensive too. Get a full frameset in custom geo for under $2k easily.

[CmdrBiggles]

I'm actually pretty sure carbon is just as resilient as alloy for a gravel bike anyway. But I hate staring at every little scratch and ding thinking 'is that ok?'. Also the fact that the alloy was about a grand cheaper means it goes faster!

Wait until you go raw titanium. Ding bangs and scratches are why it's the material of choice for gravel bikes. Not expensive too. Get a full frameset in custom geo for under $2k easily.

What!?
A Ti frameset at BAUM in Geelong is significantly more pricey than $2,000!

Of carbon, I have seen a few roadies with scratches and scrapes. I think any ding, bang, dent, gouge or scratch on carbon ought to be afforded a professional inspection, lest it is big trouble in the making.

[blizzard]

Pretty sure he is talking going a Chinese DTC brand like Watly. They will make you a custom geo bike Ti frame for fairly cheap.

[am50em]

https://bossibicycles.com/collections/t ... frameset-1

$4,990.00 AUD​

We are proud to partner with the world’s leading manufacturers who help bring our designs to market at a reasonable price. Welding is a skill set that takes decades to perfect and we employ those that are masters of their craft. Our frames are handcrafted in China to exacting standards and go through rigorous QC and testing protocols to ensure ultimate quality, safety, and durability.

[g-boaf]

https://bossibicycles.com/collections/t ... frameset-1

$4,990.00 AUD​

We are proud to partner with the world’s leading manufacturers who help bring our designs to market at a reasonable price. Welding is a skill set that takes decades to perfect and we employ those that are masters of their craft. Our frames are handcrafted in China to exacting standards and go through rigorous QC and testing protocols to ensure ultimate quality, safety, and durability.

You'd hope that was BAU procedure with anything like this.

[am50em]

The Baum frames are $13450 so way too expensive. I wouldn't buy from China direct as couldn't be sure about quality. The Bossi frames seem to be a good compromise between expense and likely quality.

[Mr Purple]

After my Bowman Palace experience (broken frame, no warranty because the company went bankrupt) I appreciate the value of bigger companies with local support.

It might be boring, but there's something to be said about being able to wander into your local bike shop and say 'hey guys, this thing I bought here is broken, can you sort it out?'

I appreciate titanium itself may potentially outlast humanity, but if it's not welded together right it won't function as a bike.

[MichaelB]

The Baum frames are $13450 so way too expensive. I wouldn't buy from China direct as couldn't be sure about quality. The Bossi frames seem to be a good compromise between expense and likely quality.

The Baum pricing is getting silly.

Makes the Llewellyn look cheap, and imho, for the level of skill that goes into it, it is. Glad I got mine.

Those that buy from China and sell it locally - I honestly don't know how much extra protection the markup actually gets you. The interface may be a bit easier, but still relying on something with limited backup.

Anyway, I have enough bikes now ..

[g-boaf]

After my Bowman Palace experience (broken frame, no warranty because the company went bankrupt) I appreciate the value of bigger companies with local support.

It might be boring, but there's something to be said about being able to wander into your local bike shop and say 'hey guys, this thing I bought here is broken, can you sort it out?'

I appreciate titanium itself may potentially outlast humanity, but if it's not welded together right it won't function as a bike.

That's quite true - these boutique frames may be lovely, but the benefit of a big manufacturer with simple support options can't be denied.