Hub Dynamos in Australia

[Mugglechops]

If you want USB charging the only integrated light with USB port that I am aware of is the B&M Luxos.

Also AXA Luxx 70 Plus

That's the one I bought. It was about $100 from Bike24. Only charges when light is off and speed is above 14km/h.

But I haven't tried the charging function yet.

[ianganderton]

Hmmmm. Read about some waterproofing problems with the B&M Luxos but that it also might have been solved.

Does a higher powered light increase the resistance at the hub dynamo?

I'm reading about the various sensors and auto switching for both speed generated power and daylight/night time light levels.

Is this being technically nice and efficient or over complicated??

The bikes will only be used in and around the city. The only time the light will be used for seeing where to go is an occasional pass through the unlit centennial park. Will a relatively low powered light be satisfactory/optimal?

[ianganderton]

If you want USB charging the only integrated light with USB port that I am aware of is the B&M Luxos.

Also AXA Luxx 70 Plus

That's the one I bought. It was about $100 from Bike24. Only charges when light is off and speed is above 14km/h.

But I haven't tried the charging function yet.

It looks like a good price. How are you finding it?

[find_bruce]

Does a higher powered light increase the resistance at the hub dynamo?

Nothing like a simple question to attract a difficult answer. If everything is equal, more light requires more power. Some rough numbers each led requires ~1.8W @0.5A so a 6 led system will require ~11W. Unlike the old sidewall bottle dynamo I had as a kid, you are unlikely to be able to detect the drag caused by a 6 led system being on or off, much less the difference between say a 2 or 4 led system.

But everything is not equal & the efficiency of the system will makes a huge difference. Current leds will produce roughly double the light for the same power levels as the older leds. The best of a particular batch of leds can produce double the light for the same power as the worst of that batch - it's why manufacturers test all leds & price them according to output & colour. The cost of a couple of bucks per unit is why manufacturers often go for middle of the batch leds. When I make a light a couple of bucks is meh & so I buy the best I can get.

I'm reading about the various sensors and auto switching for both speed generated power and daylight/night time light levels.

Is this being technically nice and efficient or over complicated??

For generated power, the power the hub can produce will depend on the hub speed. Almost all devices however want a nice steady charge rate. It is more a function of the current batteries. Old nicad batteries didn't much care how they were charged. Auto switching is an important way to ensure the device gets charged when there is enough power. Another approach is to use a cache battery.

Auto switching for light depending on speed is a very good way of getting the most light out of your system at low speed & giving you more light when you are riding faster. Daytime / nighttime switching is a matter on which minds may differ. For what it is worth, my opinion is that it is desirable to have more power during the day than at night, but it requires a level of complexity that is beyond my simple circuits.

The bikes will only be used in and around the city. The only time the light will be used for seeing where to go is an occasional pass through the unlit centennial park. Will a relatively low powered light be satisfactory/optimal?

How far ahead you need to see spends on how fast you are going & what is in front of you. A nice clear smooth road like centennial park is not a huge demand on lights, not too concerned about parked cars or cars entering from side streets. Whether a light is enough is going to depend on personal preference.

[ianganderton]

Does a higher powered light increase the resistance at the hub dynamo?

Nothing like a simple question to attract a difficult answer. If everything is equal, more light requires more power. Some rough numbers each led requires ~1.8W @0.5A so a 6 led system will require ~11W. Unlike the old sidewall bottle dynamo I had as a kid, you are unlikely to be able to detect the drag caused by a 6 led system being on or off, much less the difference between say a 2 or 4 led system.

But everything is not equal & the efficiency of the system will makes a huge difference. Current leds will produce roughly double the light for the same power levels as the older leds. The best of a particular batch of leds can produce double the light for the same power as the worst of that batch - it's why manufacturers test all leds & price them according to output & colour. The cost of a couple of bucks per unit is why manufacturers often go for middle of the batch leds. When I make a light a couple of bucks is meh & so I buy the best I can get.

I've built mountain bike lights before using old cat eye housings, 3 cree LEDs mounted on a plate (MR16 from memory from cutter), a cool driver I can't remember the name of and 7.2V model car battery.

With a bit of perseverance and a willingness to learn is it likely to be possible to convert these for use with a dynamo? How complicated is the circuit and are there drivers around with stand light capabilities?

I'm reading about the various sensors and auto switching for both speed generated power and daylight/night time light levels.

Is this being technically nice and efficient or over complicated??

For generated power, the power the hub can produce will depend on the hub speed. Almost all devices however want a nice steady charge rate. It is more a function of the current batteries. Old nicad batteries didn't much care how they were charged. Auto switching is an important way to ensure the device gets charged when there is enough power. Another approach is to use a cache battery.

Auto switching for light depending on speed is a very good way of getting the most light out of your system at low speed & giving you more light when you are riding faster. Daytime / nighttime switching is a matter on which minds may differ. For what it is worth, my opinion is that it is desirable to have more power during the day than at night, but it requires a level of complexity that is beyond my simple circuits.

[/quote]
I've just been reading about cache batter options for USB charging as a way of smoothing power output to devices and having a power supply as a utility. Hmmmmm

The bikes will only be used in and around the city. The only time the light will be used for seeing where to go is an occasional pass through the unlit centennial park. Will a relatively low powered light be satisfactory/optimal?

How far ahead you need to see spends on how fast you are going & what is in front of you. A nice clear smooth road like centennial park is not a huge demand on lights, not too concerned about parked cars or cars entering from side streets. Whether a light is enough is going to depend on personal preference.

[/quote]
I'm not sure on the conversion between lumen and lux. I've worked quite a bit in lumen for off-road riding but have no experience of lux rated lights

I wouldn't need any more than my 180ish lumen torch (8 year old fenix LD22)I currently use. It's plenty

[find_bruce]

I've built mountain bike lights before using old cat eye housings, 3 cree LEDs mounted on a plate (MR16 from memory from cutter), a cool driver I can't remember the name of and 7.2V model car battery.

With a bit of perseverance and a willingness to learn is it likely to be possible to convert these for use with a dynamo? How complicated is the circuit and are there drivers around with stand light capabilities?

It is not only possible, it is easy. If you can assemble a battery light, converting them to dynamo lights will be a walk in the park - no need for a driver see DIY Dynamo lights. I have changed quite a few things along the way, including a simpler & cheaper rear housing, but the basic circuit is this

Swap the first of the reds for a white & you have a great 3 led setup. Even that standlight is good for a minute or two, but you should be able to find 5 farad capacitors that give you 5 minutes+ of standlight
With a 5 farad capacitor in the standlight circuit, from memory I have dropped C1 and replaced c2 & c3 with a smaller bi-polar capacitor - maybe 220 uf.

I'm not sure on the conversion between lumen and lux. I've worked quite a bit in lumen for off-road riding but have no experience of lux rated lights

I wouldn't need any more than my 180ish lumen torch (8 year old fenix LD22)I currently use. It's plenty

You are not alone - lumens are a measure of the total amount of light emitted, lux is how intense that light is at a given point. If I have 2 optics, a 30° wide angle & a 10° narrow angle - same led so same lumens, but because the light is concentrated in a smaller area for the 10° optic, the lux reading will be higher. Visually your eyes will tell you that the 10°is brighter. The real trick of a shaped beam is having the same perceived brightness over much of the area.

If your 3 leds and seperate optics can be aimed separately, you can go some way towards a shaped beam by having 2 narrow angles aimed at a distance with 1 wide angle covering the near field.

If you are happy with a 180 lumen torch, a dynamo light is easy - on current technology the practical limit for a dynamo light is around 800 - 1,00 lumen

[ianganderton]

Feel like a can of worms just opened ha ha

Awesome info. Thanks!!!!

[00tones00]

Hi,
I was wondering on people's experience between the SP PD-8 and the PD-8X with the latter being about 60% more expensive. My fork is a regular disc quick release so I don't explicitly need the PD-8X (and would have to use the converter anyway) but is it worthwhile spending the extra? Current use case is extensive commuting but the bike will be used for unsupported touring when I get time. I would be getting the 36 hole version with is available for both hubs on bike24.
Thanks.

[Mugglechops]

It looks like a good price. How are you finding it?

Have only used it twice. Second time I liked it far better as I adjusted properly

I do like the beam changing feature on it. At slow speed it lights up right in front of me and at higher speeds it seems to spread out more.

Next couple of weeks it will get far more usage.

[RonK]

Hi,
I was wondering on people's experience between the SP PD-8 and the PD-8X with the latter being about 60% more expensive. My fork is a regular disc quick release so I don't explicitly need the PD-8X (and would have to use the converter anyway) but is it worthwhile spending the extra? Current use case is extensive commuting but the bike will be used for unsupported touring when I get time. I would be getting the 36 hole version with is available for both hubs on bike24.
Thanks.

No. I have them both. Same dynamo hub, different axle - why would you want to pay more.

[wqlava1]

Hi,
I was wondering on people's experience between the SP PD-8 and the PD-8X with the latter being about 60% more expensive.
Thanks.

No. I have them both. Same dynamo hub, different axle - why would you want to pay more.

i also have both, however there are differences. Bigger bearings, significantly better efficiency (78% for pd-8x versus 72% (which is already better than Shimano or SON) for PV-8 and PD-8) and stronger flanges at the expense of 30g weight. Looking at the efficiencies a different way, the PD-8X incurs over 20% less wasted pedalling effort than the PV-8 and PD-8.

http://www.sp-dynamo.com/8Xseriesdynamo%20hub.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The various efficiencies (and those for Shimano and SON are available in other comparisons) are most significant fo those who want to get the most power to lights and charging. Try as i might though, I can't tell the on-the-road pedalling difference between the 3 brands. Suppleness and rolling efficiency of the tyres used creates far more difference in feel and speed than the dynohub, by almost an order of magnitude.

[Mugglechops]

What are people using for a seatpost mounted tail light that I can hook up to my headlight?

[ianganderton]

Are there any rear dynamo powered lights that flash?

[find_bruce]

What are people using for a seatpost mounted tail light that I can hook up to my headlight?

I presume your front light has the standard 2 wires for a rear light ? I am very happy with my diy rear, but I don't think I can wire it up to the standard tailight wires. I don't think much of the various axa taillights.
Il padrone speaks highly of the Herrmans H-Track

Herrmans H-Track is a VERY bright dynamo tail-light; brighter than the Top-light Plus I reckon.

It has lots of good features - at 80mm wide it has a big point source of light which helps to reduce glare, seems to have excellent side & angled visibility, contains an inbuilt reflector to avoid contributing to Dung Can's revenue raisers.

Only weaknesses appear to be the standlight stays on for around 15 minutes & there is no switch to turn it off. Doesn't bother me, but may be a problem if you use a train station or if you don't want to draw attention to the bike when parked.

[find_bruce]

Are there any rear dynamo powered lights that flash?

Not as far as I know. (1) most dynamo lights are designed to meet StVZO requirements which prohibit flashing lights & (2) it is technically difficult with a dynamo hub to flash the rear without causing the front to also flash

[ianganderton]

Are there any rear dynamo powered lights that flash?

Not as far as I know. (1) most dynamo lights are designed to meet StVZO requirements which prohibit flashing lights & (2) it is technically difficult with a dynamo hub to flash the rear without causing the front to also flash

I can't find any and had read the reasoning to do with StVZO (German) requirements.



I think I'm finalising my requirements for our 2 commuter/urban utility bikes. All thoughts and opinions gratefully received [emoji851]

SP hub and a Union / Marwi / Hilux UN-4268 or an AXA pico front light

(I like the idea of building my own but for €17ish it's just so much easier to buy one)

Still procrastinating about a rear light. Key requirements are:
- dynamo powered
- undesirable to thieves when bike is locked unattended in public place
- semi permanently attached to prevent tampering when left locked unattended in public place
- seat tube or saddle mounted
- good visibility and stand light

Considering Martins DIY option http://pilom.com/BicycleElectronics/LEDtail.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looking through the bike24 site and this version of the pico 30 looks good value at €19 https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=39924" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can't work out how a rear light would integrate with this one though. Do front lights with stand lights also power rear lights?

[Bunged Knee]

[quote="ianganderton"
I can't find any and had read the reasoning to do with StVZO (German) requirements. [/quote]

Did you had a read of this link? https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/fiets/tests ... ex_en.html

[find_bruce]

I like the idea of building my own but for €17ish it's just so much easier to buy one

Got that right. I build my own because I enjoy it, cost savings are minimal, time spent is high

Still procrastinating about a rear light. Key requirements are:
- dynamo powered
- undesirable to thieves when bike is locked unattended in public place
- semi permanently attached to prevent tampering when left locked unattended in public place
- seat tube or saddle mounted
- good visibility and stand light

Dynamo lights need to be an integrated system. With a commercial front light, you are limited to tail lights that are wired up a particular way - low current, wired in parallel to main light, front & rear stand lights are independent. Nothing wrong with that, it just means if you are constructing a DIY tail light, it has to be wired the same way. None of Martin's tail light circuit have a standlight function. The circuit for the Herrmans H Track is simple enough

One of the things I like about the B&M toplight & Herrmans H Track is that when the light is off, they look pretty much like a reflector and everyone knows reflectors are daggy, uncool & undesireable. Thieves may nick wheels, seats & more, but have you ever heard of someone complaining "some low life mongrel pinched my reflector"?

Only downside to the H Track is, as I said above, the absence of a switch or timer. You could modify one like a different Martin, but personally I would just put in a switch to disconnect C1.

Most seat post lights are designed for easy removal, eg Exposure redeye. Supernova E3 & SON make a nice seat post mount but I suspect that they are more than you want to spend.

Personally I would be looking at a mount to attach a rack light to your saddle or brake bridge. The B&M bracket is too easy to remove, but something like these velo orange brackets would work. No doubt there are plenty of other solutions around

[ianganderton]

Got that right. I build my own because I enjoy it, cost savings are minimal, time spent is high

And I understand that. I really enjoyed building battery powered lights

Here is my CPF build thread
Cateye ABS housing - Triple Cree Q5 Mk2 (lots of build pictures)
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/sho ... p?t=185911" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 2 housings used for this are now no longer used and are just begging for this project



But I'm struggling with the electronics (capacitors, diodes, blah blah blah). The engineering I can see/work my way through easily enough but the electronics is a whole new level of learning required [emoji45]

I have the housings and the led's for front lights, a fork mount would be easy to fabricate. I can now build up wheels so just need to buy a dynamo hub and spokes. If I could decipher one of martins circuits, work out the purchase of the components and then build it I can easily visualise how it will all fit together reasonably neatly in a way that will satisfy my requirements in an immensely satisfying way.

(Building the battery powered lights was a brilliant journey)

Gawd damn. I'd told myself I was just going to buy the cheapish lights!!!!! Now I can feel how much I want to build my own.

OK, more questions (all help and opinions much appreciated):

Which circuit (of martins or 'an other') would most suit my needs?
-the 3 CREE led's are mounted in series on the board. Ideally I'd like to keep this so for simplicity
-for now I'll plan to build Martins pipe rear light to build into the system
-stand light time needs to be enough to cope with traffic lights etc but I want to minimise any problems with attracting unwanted attention when the bikes are left so either the stand lights needs to drop off after a couple of minutes or a switch needs to actually turn the lights off
-where can I buy the required electronic componentry (spelling?) and other bits and pieces in Sydney

[Mugglechops]

Thanks for all the tail light info. I went with the B&M Secular plus as it's seatpost mounted and will hook up to the wires coming out from my headlight.

[petie]

I run a Philips rear light, and am just building up a bit with a supernova e3. Yet to test that out, but I bought the bolt up seatpost mount, so a bit harder to steal.

[Blakeylonger]

Thanks for all the tail light info. I went with the B&M Secular plus as it's seatpost mounted and will hook up to the wires coming out from my headlight.

If you get the secula, get the mudguard mount version. It mounts better anywhere on the bike than the stay mount version.

[ianganderton]

So a bit of a frustrating result after trying to buy in Australia in the past 26hrs

I've been building a wishlist on bike24.com for the various bits and bobs I need to put dynamo powered lights on our city bikes. Bike24 are out of 28 hole SP PD8s though so I decided to give St Kilda Cycles a ring. Spoke to someone there first thing yesterday morning asking for pricing and availability on 3 items:
PD8 32H (most availability and I have a spare 6 hole disc available)
PL8 32H (one bike currently has a centrelock rotor but availability seems a bit rare)
PD8 28H (ideal hub to build onto value rim I've got my eye on)

The guy I spoke to said he thought there was a 28H exposure branded PD8 in the cabinet and that he would check pricing and get back to me with all the info by close of business.

So this morning after hearing nothing I gave them a ring. The guy apologised and said he would get me the info asap.

After hearing nothing by lunch I rang them again asking for prices. It was explained to me quite curtly that I wasnt their only customer (!!!!!!!!! its gawd damn tuesday morning!!!!!!) but that he would get back to me. After about an hour I received an email:

"We don’t stock SP hubs, we stock Schmidt Hubs.
In the models that you’re after
We have a
Son New 28 6 Bolt Disc, for a 32 hole rim which is $379 for Silver and $409 for Black
We have a Schmidt SonDelux Center Lock for $329 in both black and silver (same price)
Unfortunately it appears we’re out of stock on 28 hole hubs.
Apologies again for the wait"

Quite surprising given the info from this thread and the fact they have wheels with SP hubs on the website http://www.stkildacycles.com.au/index.p ... ybrid.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So this afternoon I've ordered the following from Bike24 :/

Shutter Precision PD-8 Disc Hub Dynamo - black
Number of holes: 32
Quantity: 2 (Price: 79,75 EUR) 159,50 EUR

AXA Blueline 30 Switch LED Front Light - black
Quantity: 2 (Price: 15,04 EUR) 30,08 EUR

Busch + Müller Toplight Line Plus 50 mm LED Rear Light 323ALT-02
Quantity: 2 (Price: 15,88 EUR) 31,76 EUR

Shipping and Handling 19.95 EUR

Also ordered spokes for the build plus some other bits and bobs

I'm looking forward to building these up. I'm a bit embarrased about how excited, its not exactly rock and roll is it, dynamo lights. But it excites the geek in me :/

[Blakeylonger]

Any reason you cheaped out so much on the headlight? 30lux is less than the old IQ fly even.

No IQ cyo premium or iq-x in the running?

The sp hubs that St kilda have are prebuilt wheels with Alex rims from the wholesaler.

[il padrone]

Looking through the bike24 site and this version of the pico 30 looks good value at €19 https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=39924" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I can't work out how a rear light would integrate with this one though. Do front lights with stand lights also power rear lights?

Yes.

For absolute brightness in a dynamo-powered tail-light I would rate the Herrmans H-track to be the most outstanding, but it really is suited to a rear rack mount.





But they do have few other variants on the theme that may suit you. Look at http://www.intelligentdesigncycles.com/ ... track.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;