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Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 am
by foo on patrol
MichaelB wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:49 pm
Warnesy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:27 am
So I had been eyeing off a few custom bikes and was due to visit Melbourne in a few weeks and I was hoping to visit a couple of factories (clearly not happening now).
Anyway, I had a rough budget in my head about what that might cost me, but based on this (
https://www.baumcycles.com/rapha-special/) I might have been a bit underdone. $30k for a custom bike is certainly getting well up there. Still, a really nice looking bike.
My custom Llewellyn Discus Colossus will cost me close to $11 when all done and that’s a decent spec without going crazy. Certainly waaaay better than I can outperform. About 1/2 the cost is in the F&F, and I think that is underpriced.
But it's resale value will be three times that of these muppet bikes.
Foo
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:08 am
by MichaelB
foo on patrol wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:55 am
MichaelB wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:49 pm
Warnesy wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:27 am
So I had been eyeing off a few custom bikes and was due to visit Melbourne in a few weeks and I was hoping to visit a couple of factories (clearly not happening now).
Anyway, I had a rough budget in my head about what that might cost me, but based on this (
https://www.baumcycles.com/rapha-special/) I might have been a bit underdone. $30k for a custom bike is certainly getting well up there. Still, a really nice looking bike.
My custom Llewellyn Discus Colossus will cost me close to $11 when all done and that’s a decent spec without going crazy. Certainly waaaay better than I can outperform. About 1/2 the cost is in the F&F, and I think that is underpriced.
But it's resale value will be three times that of these muppet bikes.
Foo
When a price is inflated due to a 'name' like Rapha, Ferrari, LV etc, then it becomes a fashion item rather than a bike to ride and enjoy.
Yes, it
may become a collectors items and it
may go up in value, but the essence is, if you want something special and custom, look for something that speaks to you.
As I've mentioned before, what drew me to my Llewellyn was the effort and detail that went into building a Lugged Colossus for a customer. The thought, detail, workmanship and problem solving is what sold me, and then I found the price of the frame was sometimes way less than an off the rack std carbon frame.
Each to their own though.
A Baum would be nice, but not at $30k, and I think the frames alone are now north of $10k (?)
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:07 am
by foo on patrol
He is a true Master Craftsman.
Foo
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:48 am
by Mr Purple
Jeez that looks nice. And not bad value for the Ultegra build; though the fact I'm thinking that reflects how expensive bikes are becoming.
I'm developing a hankering for a Chapter 2 Huru.
https://www.chapter2bikes.com/product/h ... -ud-korio/
There often seem to be the older colours available at about half price. Which might make it a bit easier to justify a rim brake build on a $5-6k bike for the sake of climbing.
There's nothing particularly spectacular about their specs, but they look nice. And for the sake of an extra 50-60g that makes it go faster anyway.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 6:36 pm
by warthog1
They have gotten too expensive for myself now.
I bought the Cervelo S5 team new in 2012 and the firecrest 404s are near new 2nd hand that I bought from somebody I know who has friends in the industry.
The bike owes me about 6-7k.
The equivalent new now is over 10k
The 2013 Giant TCR is an ebay frame bought for 450.
The wheels are Primes from wiggle that were 880 with tubeless tyres.
Tbh the Giant is a better ride.
It is as fast as a 10k new bike going off the people I ride with who are similar in ability and have them.
Owes me about 2.5k.
I simply don't gave the spare cash and it is satisfying to achieve a cheap result. That'll have to do me.
I was lucky to survive the 3.2k gravel bike purchase so better call it quits for a while.
Good luck to those who have the cash. I am happy to view the bikes anyway.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:12 pm
by g-boaf
Mr Purple wrote: ↑Fri Nov 05, 2021 10:48 am
Jeez that looks nice. And not bad value for the Ultegra build; though the fact I'm thinking that reflects how expensive bikes are becoming.
I'm developing a hankering for a Chapter 2 Huru.
https://www.chapter2bikes.com/product/h ... -ud-korio/
There often seem to be the older colours available at about half price. Which might make it a bit easier to justify a rim brake build on a $5-6k bike for the sake of climbing.
There's nothing particularly spectacular about their specs, but they look nice. And for the sake of an extra 50-60g that makes it go faster anyway.
I also briefly looked at those as well:
https://www.chapter2bikes.com/product/r ... y-ahuriri/
It looks nice enough but the specifications were nothing too special. Nice but other bikes were also available. I looked at them back when I built the Canyon CF Evo up from a frameset ($4699 for the frameset back in the day). The Canyon was an absolute bargain at the time for what it was (and still is).
Factor Ostro Chrome is a nice bike as well:
https://factorbikes.com/models/ostro/
About the only bike I'd actually go for now (because the two I ride are already awesome) is one of these:
https://www.heroin-bikes.com/la-marque/
https://www.heroin-bikes.com/pub/static ... Slide1.jpg
I've been fortunate to look at those in real life (they were bikes you could test ride on a stage of Haute Route Dolomites 2017) and
yes, they are very, very damn nice. Beautifully designed and finished - although not the lightest things around. Apparently they are very comfortable to ride for long distances. The prices of them back then were eye-watering!
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:18 am
by Mr Purple
I agree, the specifications are nothing special. The problem I have is that this would be a second bike, built purely as a climbing bike - so I'd be aiming to do it on a budget because I know my Bowman will be much faster on average and anywhere that is less than about 6% gradient.
It's still expensive however you do it! However I'm half considering a $600 Chinese carbon frameset that would be lighter than the Huru, and keeping an eye out for some second hand SRAM Red mechanical. 6kg should be doable for under $3k. Though it won't be pretty.
Project 'Climbpig'. It would amuse me to have it custom painted with 'Black and Gold' branding or something.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:03 am
by warthog1
Less than 3k is good. If climbing is your thing and you can survive the home consequences
why not?
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:43 am
by mechkbfan
Calvin27 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:16 pm
Got mine done for $A1500 landed. The Bossi looks like a standard frame out of their catalog - even the forks look like the ones they had in stock.
Who did you order through?
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:46 am
by mechkbfan
biker jk wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:44 pm
Calvin27 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:02 pm
Saw that new Bossi. Totally take back everything I said about it being 'all th same Ti' This one looks the goods and obviously a lot of though and refinement! I'd take that over a baum.
I'd totally buy that if I didn't already have a full shed and empty pockets. $5.5k for that frameset is not bad for what it is, unfortunately the paint job is extra
The frame manufacturer, Hanglun in China, sells a frame constructed using the same method, for US$1118 (A$1600). Sure it's not exactly the same frame, but that's some mark up by Bossi.
https://www.facebook.com/hangluntitaniu ... 4830094798
I can't see how to order these though. I emailed them but haven't heard back
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:10 am
by mechkbfan
Did you end up getting one?
On paper it looked great to me.
27.2 seat post, T47 BB, clears 35mm tyres, flat-mount discs, internal routing (if that's your thing)
Had also seen the Aethos but that's a little pricier...
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 4:14 pm
by mechkbfan
This thread has been a great read so far, thank you.
My desire is a fast bike for the non-racer that can also be comfortable for a century & all weather conditions:
- Endurance geometry
- Fits 28-32mm tyres
- Flat mount disc (looking at 160mm)
- Ti/Steel (maybe carbon but reluctant due to concerns of crashing & damaging)
- T47 BB
- Di2 routing (I like this new ACR but not required)
- 27.2mm seat post (preferable but not required)
- Available locally (shipping prices & wait times are ridiculous right now)
- <1.6kg frame (not a weight weenie but would like to keep total build <8kg)
- <$6k for frame/fork
So far the key ones I had seen here
- Llewellyn build looked fantastic but I don't have the patience to wait until 2023 otherwise I'd jump right in
- Waitley have a 3-4 month wait which is okay but always prefer to buy local with regards to warranty, etc.
- Fiadh build is beautiful but out of my price range
- Prova Speciale looks amazing too but heard frameset is $8k+
A not sure if this got shared before, but these are $30k and look incredible:
https://www.bastioncycles.com/models/demon/
So in the end, Aethos and Bossi are on my short list.
Happy for other insights
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:14 pm
by DavidS
mechkbfan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:10 am
Did you end up getting one?
On paper it looked great to me.
27.2 seat post, T47 BB, clears 35mm tyres, flat-mount discs, internal routing (if that's your thing)
Had also seen the Aethos but that's a little pricier...
Aah, I keep procrastinating, must make a decision, I do really like the look of these. Perfect for me; light, touring style bike. I am thinking of asking about Campagnolo group set and some other things like very strong wheels. Must get on to this!
DS
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:44 pm
by Calvin27
Bit of talk about bowman early on this thread from memory, Bowman going into liquidation apparently and hambini with an interesting video to match!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTDQ9vtoxTo
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:57 pm
by mechkbfan
DavidS wrote: ↑Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:14 pm
Aah, I keep procrastinating, must make a decision, I do really like the look of these. Perfect for me; light, touring style bike. I am thinking of asking about Campagnolo group set and some other things like very strong wheels. Must get on to this!
DS
Found out they've got a showroom in Sydney. Maybe I'm blind but couldn't find that info on their website.
The endurance bike does tick a lot of boxes. The only marginal negatives would be people looking for a bit more aero with ACR or lightweight, but then you may as well go down the carbon path with Caledonia 5 or similar.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:03 pm
by mechkbfan
I don't normally like Hambini but good to see all the 'reviewers' getting roasted.
And holy batman that welding was bad even I noticed it before he said it
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:44 am
by MichaelB
Mr Purple wrote: ↑Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:51 am
Thoglette wrote: ↑Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:23 pm
MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:57 am
- current roadie is a 2012 Volagi Liscio,
I’ll see your 2012 Volagi and raise you an early ‘90s Cannondale. It’s Al so will be replaced by something steel: I’ve got an irrational fear of fatigue failure.
And it’s thirty years younger than the commuter, which is steel. You can prise that from my cold dead fingers with..., what’s that? Rivendell you say?
well then
Ancient bicycle rider logging in here - my current bike is an alloy 2008 Avanti Giro that was entry level new and is entry level and 13 years old now.
Funny how these old bikes get all 'Ship of Theseus'. In that everything has been replaced but it's still the same bike. I'm running original frameset, bars, shifters and seatpost. A mate has a titanium bike that's literally just the original seatpost (the frame was a warranty replacement).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
The Avanti is currently so disreputable that I swear people get offended when I pass them. Plus it weighs around 9.5kg.
The new bike is sitting in pieces in the garage. I'm currently gradually introducing the concept of a new bike to my wife so that I can build it without getting into trouble. A series of minor mechanical issues with the Avanti has helped, even though most of those have been caused by my own incompetence.
It's an Orange Sherbert Bowman Palace 3 build.
- Full Ultegra mechanical.
- Deda Superzero bars and stem.
- 45mm Light Bicycle carbon wheels.
- Hope carbon seatpost.
I hope to ride it for a similar period of time and then replace it with something titanium when I'm old enough to go a bit slower.
Now, as much as I can't stand Hambini and his often ranting & childish manner, this video (whilst it still has some of that) shows some potentially serious doodoo for the Bowman frames .....
For all those that have one (Mr Purple), may be worth having a close look at the frame
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:39 pm
by familyguy
MichaelB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:44 am
For all those that have one (Mr Purple), may be worth having a close look at the frame
Yeah, not been a big fan of his mannerisms and overt negativity, this one does seem warranted. I checked my older Palace R over again, the welds are like chalk and cheese compared to this one! Some truly shocking stuff on that one. Maybe on a $100 frame but not a £500 frame.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:33 am
by blizzard
familyguy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:39 pm
MichaelB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:44 am
For all those that have one (Mr Purple), may be worth having a close look at the frame
Yeah, not been a big fan of his mannerisms and overt negativity, this one does seem warranted. I checked my older Palace R over again, the welds are like chalk and cheese compared to this one! Some truly shocking stuff on that one. Maybe on a $100 frame but not a £500 frame.
I'm assuming there is a lot of variability in the quality of frames and is quite likely the pandemic era frames are most likely to be defective. The worst part is that Bowman actually let these out the door instead of trashing them or sending them back.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:53 am
by warthog1
I'd have a look at the welds if I had one. Have to be very bad before I stopped riding it.
He banged on about the welds in that video.
They were all still holding.
Sure have a look, keep an eye on them. Aluminium bike, it's not forever anyway.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:14 am
by Calvin27
I rekon half the problem is that they go into the market with good intentions and then chase profit and change suppliers etc. I never really understood why bowman frames were so 'premium' in the first place. Looks just like regular alu frames with slick paint jobs to me.
I did the same destructive testing for an 2013 specialized alu bike and the welds were quite good on that one.
Interesting that in the video watly got a plug from hambini. As a watly owner I was expecting it to appear and get destroyed by hambini at some point!
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 11:14 am
by familyguy
blizzard wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:33 am
familyguy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:39 pm
MichaelB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 9:44 am
For all those that have one (Mr Purple), may be worth having a close look at the frame
Yeah, not been a big fan of his mannerisms and overt negativity, this one does seem warranted. I checked my older Palace R over again, the welds are like chalk and cheese compared to this one! Some truly shocking stuff on that one. Maybe on a $100 frame but not a £500 frame.
I'm assuming there is a lot of variability in the quality of frames and is quite likely the pandemic era frames are most likely to be defective. The worst part is that Bowman actually let these out the door instead of trashing them or sending them back.
Maybe so. I've now seen three early-era Palace R bikes in the flesh. The welds looks
nothing like those that Hambini has got a hold of. I'll still be riding mine. However, it has made me rethink the cheaper gravel option based on some images!
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 3:09 pm
by mechkbfan
Calvin27 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:14 am
I rekon half the problem is that they go into the market with good intentions and then chase profit and change suppliers etc. I never really understood why bowman frames were so 'premium' in the first place. Looks just like regular alu frames with slick paint jobs to me.
I did the same destructive testing for an 2013 specialized alu bike and the welds were quite good on that one.
Interesting that in the video watly got a plug from hambini. As a watly owner I was expecting it to appear and get destroyed by hambini at some point!
Yeah, I was browsing the SlowTwitch forum, and a guy had a track Waltley. Bottom bracket developed a crack, they offered for someone to fix it locally and pay for it instead of sending a new one, but then for some reason he bailed out on it.
Kind of turned me off a little.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:38 am
by Mr Purple
Mine looks a lot better built than that, but I can’t see inside it which freaks me out.
Half considering a new Chapter 2 Tere disc frameset - old colours are available NOS pretty cheaply.
Any other good options? Factor O2 maybe? Would prefer it under $3k though.
Re: New road bike. What's your desire ?
Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 10:16 am
by warthog1
Mr Purple wrote: ↑Fri Apr 08, 2022 9:38 am
Mine looks a lot better built than that, but I can’t see inside it which freaks me out.
Half considering a new Chapter 2 Tere disc frameset - old colours are available NOS pretty cheaply.
Any other good options? Factor O2 maybe? Would prefer it under $3k though.
You are light. You should be good if the welds look good externally.
Ask the bike shop that built it for you what they think.
They may be able to whip the headset bearings and bb out and have a look for heat marks if they are concerned.
It is a nice looking bike you have.
I don't reckon one profanity bound video of another frame with dodgy welds means yours is.
I am no expert, just my opinion.
Hope it's all good anyway
