the Crazy eDevice rider thread

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Lukeyboy
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby Lukeyboy » Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:06 pm

Andy01 wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:49 pm
antigee wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2024 1:52 pm


as to long term need to reduce the dominance of fast moving cars in urban areas - why can't a kid ride to school safely
It is entirely possible that the driver reversed out at some speed, but as the story unfolds it seems likely that the scooter was traveling too fast, the girl panicked when she saw the car moving and either fell off or went over the bars - directly into the path of the reversing car at low level where the girl was not visible to the (inexperienced) driver, resulting in the car riding right up over the girl and pinning her underneath (which, as you say, is probably why a wheel was off). All I have heard about the driver is that the parents, and (as far as I know) police have not blamed her for anything and no charges have been laid - which seems to indicate that the fault lies elsewhere.

I don't know about the newer Kia Rios but the older ones did not have reversing cameras (my mum drove one until recently).

There is a common theme to this - in many situations where people can access potentially dangerous "things" without any real restrictions or the need for compulsory training, bad things tend to happen - how many people are injured or worse in USA by people who bought a firearm and have no idea how to use it, and have never been trained. In Australia, particularly a couple of decades ago, P platers got their first car, often a beaten-up old "Big 6" (especially males) with no training on how to use/manage the power that it still had, e-device owners (including parents who don't ride themselves) can simply buy something that it more dangerous than many "learner-level" motorbikes - with no requirement for any training, and then worse still, hand it to young kid (who barely has the sense to cross a road, and probably no knowledge of traffic rules) to do as they wish. It is not a recipe for success.
The car wasn't reversing at speed and it didn't ride over her via the wheels. The scooter was located before the driveway and the rider has fallen off the scooter (not known how. Could have put a wheel off the footpath and the scooter bottomed out, could have put a foot down and supermaned/stumbled/rolled over (remember you don't have to be travelling too fast just enough that you effectively trip over. People have similar falls when tripping on footpaths and that's at walking speed where momentum and trying not to fall takes over propelling you forward) etc but the end result is she has ended up on the ground) between the car wheel tracks and was dragged along. The driver was unaware until they had put it in drive and saw the drag marks on the driveway. The car wheel was removed to access/extract the patient.

Also another common theme is people making assumptions on someone's circumstances that they do not know trying to fit what has happened into their own argument or preconceptions.

Andy01
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby Andy01 » Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:52 am

Lukeyboy wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2024 7:06 pm


The car wasn't reversing at speed and it didn't ride over her via the wheels. The scooter was located before the driveway and the rider has fallen off the scooter (not known how. Could have put a wheel off the footpath and the scooter bottomed out, could have put a foot down and supermaned/stumbled/rolled over (remember you don't have to be travelling too fast just enough that you effectively trip over. People have similar falls when tripping on footpaths and that's at walking speed where momentum and trying not to fall takes over propelling you forward) etc but the end result is she has ended up on the ground) between the car wheel tracks and was dragged along. The driver was unaware until they had put it in drive and saw the drag marks on the driveway. The car wheel was removed to access/extract the patient.

Also another common theme is people making assumptions on someone's circumstances that they do not know trying to fit what has happened into their own argument or preconceptions.
Given that the car did not appear to have driven over the scooter, and the girl was between the wheel tracks, it does seem fair to assume that there was some speed involved - for there to be at least a couple of metres between the scooter (which is unlikely to have stopped dead the moment she "left" it) and her at the time the car went over her. I am not suggesting that she was doing a ridiculous speed like 30-40km/h, but the limit of 12km/h is only (roughly) double walking speed, which is unlikely to have propelled her some metres in front of her scooter (or the point where she "left" the scooter). The "assumption" is based on simple physics of inertia etc, but I agree it is not fact and should not be taken as such.

jasonc
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Wed Aug 28, 2024 11:21 am

https://archive.md/HxuVM
interesting opinion piece in the brisbane times this morning

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Fri Aug 30, 2024 11:36 am

https://12ft.io/https://www.brisbanetim ... 5k6es.html
hire escooters banned from both the sunny and gold coasts. odd for the sunny coast. most hire escooters seemed to be stored in the designated areas. the problem is still the personal ones
and of course the article mentions then 1000 or so hospital admissions

still no enforcement of laws on the the private escooters
I posted a list of the laws for using private escooters in our community facebook group last week. I've seen a dramatic reduction in the amount I have seen

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:17 pm

Fat wheeled pmd
No pedals
Too big to be a pmd
Quicker than a motorcycle that it went past
Looked like this
But it's electric, so it's ok
Image

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elantra
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby elantra » Fri Aug 30, 2024 9:29 pm

jasonc wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2024 11:36 am
https://12ft.io/https://www.brisbanetim ... 5k6es.html
hire escooters banned from both the sunny and gold coasts. odd for the sunny coast. most hire escooters seemed to be stored in the designated areas. the problem is still the personal ones
and of course the article mentions then 1000 or so hospital admissions

still no enforcement of laws on the the private escooters
I posted a list of the laws for using private escooters in our community facebook group last week. I've seen a dramatic reduction in the amount I have seen

Is it just me or - is the e-thingo hire diversity in South-East Queensland really hard to get your head around ?


It goes something like this :

On the Sunshine Coast, there is currently a e-PMD share scheme by the one operator for both e-scooters and e-bikes. But this will END soon.

On the Gold Coast, the e-PMD share scheme is done by a different company and is for e-bikes ONLY.

And halfway between the Gold Coast and Sunshine Coast cities is the city of Brisbane, where there are no less than 3 companies providing share e-PMD’s which include both e-scooters AND e-bikes.
(But don’t ask me if all 3 companies do both !)
And no, unlike Melbourne and the Sunshine Coast, there is NO plan to shut down any part of these schemes in Brisbane.

Wow. That is perhaps an example of very complex and disjointed public policy.
And I spose that the operational and useage rules for the e-bikes and e-scooters would be much the same but if it isn’t then it would be even more “interesting”

Anrai
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby Anrai » Fri Aug 30, 2024 10:33 pm

jasonc wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:17 pm
Fat wheeled pmd
No pedals
Too big to be a pmd
Quicker than a motorcycle that it went past
Looked like this
But it's electric, so it's ok
Smells like the same case as earlier in the thread where someone bought something that's classed as an e-bike in The 'States and pulled a well you can ride it there so you can ride it here.
Except this time the manufacturer site calls it a motorcycle and implies that anywhere bar California, Texas, and Pennsylvania it needs to be registered as a vehicle. No mention of needing a licence, but I imagine that comes as implied with the registration requirement.

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Sat Aug 31, 2024 9:19 am

elantra wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2024 9:29 pm

Wow. That is perhaps an example of very complex and disjointed public policy.
usage requirements would all be governed by state law, in 99% of cases
we all know it's down to money. how much money can the councils make out of it before the public has an outcry, as we've just seen on the sunny coast

Andy01
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby Andy01 » Mon Sep 02, 2024 5:38 pm

Another update (in the paper today) on the 12yo girl who was riding the escooter.

The mother is quoted as saying that she is full of regret in "buckling to the pressure from her daughter" and buying the scooter, and that the govt should implement stricter laws to prevent young kids from riding these :roll:

Like Say What - there is already a clear-as-day law (to anyone who looks) that says that kids between 12 and 16 must only ride if supervised (and kids under 12you can't ride them at all - no idea if her daughter got it before or after the 12th bday ? ), and she chose to ignore it - what more does she want ?

A bit sad that parents are that dumb/disinterested/naive/weak (or whatever else you want to call it) and end up putting their kids lives at risk without proper consideration of laws, risks etc - it is the kids that suffer the consequences :evil:

Interestingly, at the end of the article was a list of the laws, including the age restrictions - if anyone (including the mother) bothers to read down that far.

zebee
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby zebee » Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:08 pm

I presume the stricter laws are to prevent people selling them to parents for their kids.

That way it isn't the parent's fault.

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm

Beam have been told to get their escooters out of Brisbane. They have been under-representing the numbers of scooters they have. The actual number has been over the limit the council have for them
So just lime left... and the private ones

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MichaelB
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby MichaelB » Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:01 am

zebee wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:08 pm
I presume the stricter laws are to prevent people selling them to parents for their kids.

That way it isn't the parent's fault.
Stricter laws mean nothing if they are not enforced.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Ignorance is no defence.

Parents have to accept they are equally responsible.

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:28 am

MichaelB wrote:
Tue Sep 03, 2024 9:01 am
zebee wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:08 pm
I presume the stricter laws are to prevent people selling them to parents for their kids.

That way it isn't the parent's fault.
Stricter laws mean nothing if they are not enforced.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Ignorance is no defence.

Parents have to accept they are equally responsible.
this 100000%

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby find_bruce » Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:26 pm

jasonc wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm
Beam have been told to get their escooters out of Brisbane. They have been under-representing the numbers of scooters they have. The actual number has been over the limit the council have for them
So just lime left... and the private ones
& the ACT have followed suit with banning Beam, reportedly for manipulating data. Neuron is still in Canberra & the gumnut is looking to attract more e-scooter providers to Canberra
Anything you can do, I can do slower

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MichaelB
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby MichaelB » Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:45 am

find_bruce wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:26 pm
jasonc wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm
Beam have been told to get their escooters out of Brisbane. They have been under-representing the numbers of scooters they have. The actual number has been over the limit the council have for them
So just lime left... and the private ones
& the ACT have followed suit with banning Beam, reportedly for manipulating data. Neuron is still in Canberra & the gumnut is looking to attract more e-scooter providers to Canberra
If one operator is doing it, you can be guaranteed that others are too

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Mububban
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby Mububban » Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:53 pm

jasonc wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:17 pm
Fat wheeled pmd
No pedals
Too big to be a pmd
Quicker than a motorcycle that it went past
Looked like this
But it's electric, so it's ok
Image

That looks very similar to the fat tyred contraption I've seen someone near me riding. I've only ever caught sight of it as I'm coming home and they're pulling into their driveway. If I ever cross paths with them I might ask how far they're going each day. Got to be illegal.
When you are driving your car, you are not stuck IN traffic - you ARE the traffic!!!

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Fri Sep 06, 2024 7:33 am

Mububban wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:53 pm
jasonc wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2024 8:17 pm
Fat wheeled pmd
No pedals
Too big to be a pmd
Quicker than a motorcycle that it went past
Looked like this
But it's electric, so it's ok
Image

That looks very similar to the fat tyred contraption I've seen someone near me riding. I've only ever caught sight of it as I'm coming home and they're pulling into their driveway. If I ever cross paths with them I might ask how far they're going each day. Got to be illegal.
the length of the device means it's not a PMD. let alone the speed

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby AdelaidePeter » Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:56 am

MichaelB wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:45 am
find_bruce wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:26 pm
jasonc wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2024 6:52 pm
Beam have been told to get their escooters out of Brisbane. They have been under-representing the numbers of scooters they have. The actual number has been over the limit the council have for them
So just lime left... and the private ones
& the ACT have followed suit with banning Beam, reportedly for manipulating data. Neuron is still in Canberra & the gumnut is looking to attract more e-scooter providers to Canberra
If one operator is doing it, you can be guaranteed that others are too
Not guaranteed at all.

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MichaelB
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 06, 2024 11:35 am

AdelaidePeter wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:56 am
MichaelB wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:45 am
find_bruce wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2024 7:26 pm

& the ACT have followed suit with banning Beam, reportedly for manipulating data. Neuron is still in Canberra & the gumnut is looking to attract more e-scooter providers to Canberra
If one operator is doing it, you can be guaranteed that others are too
Not guaranteed at all.
Not guaranteed, but highly likely. They just haven't been caught. Yet.

As to why I think the way I do, see outcomes of
Banking Royal Commission
VW Dieselgate
Tesla data tracking
RHIP law avoidance
etc
etc

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vbplease
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby vbplease » Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:40 pm

I had a relatively slow speed head on crash with an e-scooter last week.. as I was coming down to the end of a bikeway ramp the scooter was coming at 90 degrees to my right, turning to come up the ramp.. she couldn't find her brake and came all the way over to my lane leaving me nowhere to go except head on with her scooter.
The impact shunted the wheel quick release skewer within the fork and put it our of square.. luckily it squared up again and there wasn't any damage.. just some nice bruises on my forearm from hitting her handlebars.

Its a worry when someone can't find the brake from the accelerator in a critical situation :shock:

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:50 pm

hope you and the bike are ok vbplease. was it a private or hire escooter?

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uart
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby uart » Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:56 pm

vbplease wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:40 pm
Its a worry when someone can't find the brake from the accelerator in a critical situation :shock:
This is were most e-scooters are a lot more dangerous than pedelec e-bikes. E-bikes without a throttle (as they all really should be) cut the power as soon as you stop pedalling, which is just an intrinsically safe way to do it. No skill or learning required, no one is going to keep pedalling flat out as they're about to crash into something.

With e-scooters it's not just the throttle, but many now actually have "cruise control" whereby if you hold the throttle in place for a certain time then it retains that setting (even after you release the throttle) until you hit the brake. So way less safe than a pedelec ebike.

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vbplease
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby vbplease » Mon Sep 09, 2024 2:11 pm

jasonc wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:50 pm
hope you and the bike are ok vbplease. was it a private or hire escooter?
All good thanks.. I think there is also a crack to my carbon handlebar, but lucky this is my backup bike and I was wanting to change the handlebar setup..

It must have been a hire scooter as she made it abundantly clear (without saying it) that she didn't have 2 cents to rub together..
Before heading off I did ask her if she had any type of insurance, to which she said no.. I thought the chances of getting any sort of compensation for the handlebars or even a checkover of the bike at the local wouldn't be worth the stress.

In other news, last week I finally received my insurance payout (for my good bike) for an accident i had about 4 months ago or so (no look u-turn driver pulling out in front of me). 8)

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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby jasonc » Mon Sep 09, 2024 2:17 pm

vbplease - one of the hire scooter vendors does include insurance, and one doesn't. I don't recall which is which. I would have got details and reported it to the police anyway.

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vbplease
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Re: the Crazy eDevice rider thread

Postby vbplease » Mon Sep 09, 2024 2:21 pm

uart wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2024 1:56 pm
With e-scooters it's not just the throttle, but many now actually have "cruise control" whereby if you hold the throttle in place for a certain time then it retains that setting (even after you release the throttle) until you hit the brake. So way less safe than a pedelec ebike.
Wow.. the cynic in me thinks its more about turning people into motionless blobs than ergonomics etc..

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