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Agree.AdelaidePeter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:07 pmhttps://theconversation.com/why-melbour ... ort-236781
The article argues (and from a quick read, I agree) that hired scooters (such as those being banned in Melbourne) are relatively safe, due to being speed-limited; and also their riders are insured. The main dangers are in privately owned scooters. So banning hire scooters fixes little or nothing.
Mike Ayling wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:10 pmAgree.AdelaidePeter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:07 pmhttps://theconversation.com/why-melbour ... ort-236781
The article argues (and from a quick read, I agree) that hired scooters (such as those being banned in Melbourne) are relatively safe, due to being speed-limited; and also their riders are insured. The main dangers are in privately owned scooters. So banning hire scooters fixes little or nothing.
I'm still averaging seeing one legal pmd a week in Brisbane. On the sunny coast this week. Haven't seen a legal pmd/pmd rider yet. I'm seeing a lot more than one pmd....CmdrBiggles wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 4:47 pmMike Ayling wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:10 pmAgree.AdelaidePeter wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 3:07 pmhttps://theconversation.com/why-melbour ... ort-236781
The article argues (and from a quick read, I agree) that hired scooters (such as those being banned in Melbourne) are relatively safe, due to being speed-limited; and also their riders are insured. The main dangers are in privately owned scooters. So banning hire scooters fixes little or nothing.
The hire scooters may be safe. The people who hire them and ride them are the bigger issue here in Melbourne.
As for privately owned scooters, that comment above is simply entirely uninformed.
An illegal (unregisterable) motorcycle
There's just not enough police, and motorists are behaving like idiots in far, far greater numbers (while being in control of vehicles with far more destructive potential). Then of course there's the general Australian attitude towards motorised vehicles of any sort somehow being a right and not an earned privilege. In other words, we're not the smart country, far from it. Our politicians could learn from some Western European countries, if they chose to (which they generally don't). If I sound p#ssed off with this country, it's because I am.elantra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 7:10 pmAn illegal (unregisterable) motorcycle
Obviously the tip of the iceberg.
Am I correct in suspecting that the Police are not interested or not capable of addressing this issue ?
Which is by no means a trivial issue, lives are at stake.
Obviously ain’t the “Smart State” anymore.
Most of the problems I'm having are on bike only paths, and shared paths (pmds have a limit of 12km/h on footpaths and shared paths). We have some token enforcement in one spot in Brisbane (less than two kms from the GPO). I would like that to move further out.Cyclophiliac wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 11:20 pmThere's just not enough police, and motorists are behaving like idiots in far, far greater numbers (while being in control of vehicles with far more destructive potential). Then of course there's the general Australian attitude towards motorised vehicles of any sort somehow being a right and not an earned privilege. In other words, we're not the smart country, far from it. Our politicians could learn from some Western European countries, if they chose to (which they generally don't). If I sound p#ssed off with this country, it's because I am.elantra wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 7:10 pmAn illegal (unregisterable) motorcycle
Obviously the tip of the iceberg.
Am I correct in suspecting that the Police are not interested or not capable of addressing this issue ?
Which is by no means a trivial issue, lives are at stake.
Obviously ain’t the “Smart State” anymore.
He was lucky it wasn't a pedestrian or cyclist he hit, or he would be up for a few more fines and possibly an insurance claim cos I bet he wasn't insuredfat and old wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:34 amhttps://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-ac ... 7432746980
What a crying-ass shame
His bike was legal tho
. IMHO he got off lightly.
. Also, you may submit to a breath test, i.e. they ask 'can we breathalyze you' and you say 'Yes' and do it of your own accord.
I also think the problem is that the police probably aren't that interested because very little happens if things go to court.
Yep, I posted this link in the fatalities thread, unfortunately.Andy01 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 12:37 pmIn today's newsfeeds, the 65yo bicycle rider who was killed a couple of years ago by a speeding motorbike has resulted in the motorbike rider getting a 4 year sentence, suspended after 8 months
This was in spite of the motorbike ride being recorded on a GoPro, including it doing double the speed limit and doing wheelies, and routinely being on the wrong side of the road. So there was direct video evidence of the ride, right up to and including the collision, showing multiple offences - and still very little happened
So even if the police do charge someone not much seems to happen anyway.
Gotta preface that my intent is to spotlight why this attitude exists at all, not to defend it. I'm pretty sure a large number of people with this attitude already live in the cities with pretty good access to public transport and/or not-abysmal cycling commute times to wherever they'd have to go. Having been unfit and overweight as a person who was primarily walking to get around, I'm also horrified to think of the large scale health consequences of people who don't get even that level of exercise.Cyclophiliac wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2024 11:20 pmThen of course there's the general Australian attitude towards motorised vehicles of any sort somehow being a right and not an earned privilege.
fat and old wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:34 amhttps://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-ac ... 7432746980
What a crying-ass shame
His bike was legal tho
No unfortunate about it.Mr Fortuna’s lawyer Maurice Baroni called it a “quirk of the legislation”.
“It is, unfortunately,” Magistrate Zaki said.
Difference in policing nowadays is it appears reactive not proactive and anything traffic related is mostly left to automation.New legislation is coming in here to maybe address all the substandard batteries and chargers. The stats in NSW alone, reported earlier in the week, were 4 home fires every 5 days caused by e-devices. Reported last weekend, a unit in western Sydney was burnt to a cinder by a 3 day old e-bike. I'd wager supplied by one of the usual cowboy operators here.Mr Purple wrote:Not only is there a complete lack of quality control so they're burning down houses quite regularly
close passed by a guy and girl doubling on a fat wheeler while standing on the footpath with my back to them a couple weeks ago (could feel the breeze). Unlocking the bike 5 minutes later, same pair shooting past shop entrances in one of the more heavily pedestrianised parts of Sydney at 20kph plus while carrying a carton - like trying to put brains in statues!Yes it's a shame (and stupid) that this newcorp story focused solely on ebikes, when all bicycles are consider as vehicles under Australian road rules. So he most certainly could have received the exact same penalty if he was just on a regular push bike.
Yes, I get the point you are making there.uart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:33 pmThe one point where I actually agree with the guy is that there is a massive inequity in the penalty depending on whether or not you also happen to hold a motor vehicle license (bearing in mind that one is absolutely not needed to ride a push bike).
Personally I would prefer it if all riding offenses on a push bike where completely decoupled from driver's license and demerit points ect. (Not that I've ever encountered problems like this myself.)
Certainly most, but definitely not all. My sister in law is 55 y.o and has never held a driver's license.
Except that a bicycle is not a motor vehicle. So we end up with the rather absurd outcome that it's still perfectly legal for them to use the vehicle on which they committed the offense (their pushy), but is now illegal to use some other totally unrelated class of vehicle.and they shouldn't be allowed to use any motor vehicle as proscribed by law.
But again, those are all motor vehicles, which do of course require a license, so not really equivalent to a bicycle.Works to some extent, you speed on a motorbike, it affects your car license as well or vice-versa. Even worse if you are a professional driver punting a truck of some sort.
Those are motorvehicles. Its important to remember laws and fines all apply differently depending where you live. For instance in queensland you cannot get any demerit points for traffic offences committed while riding a bicycle or horse even the wrong way over the story bridge. You can rack up the fines but not demerit points. However I believe that can change if you are on a restricted/temporary licence eg driving only to/from work between w/x and y/z hours mon-fri due to the wording/conditions associated with the restricted licence terms where the terms used are vehicles instead of motor vehicles (still won't get demerit point loses but you can loose the restricted licence).uart wrote: ↑Sat Aug 17, 2024 8:33 pmYes it's a shame (and stupid) that this newcorp story focused solely on ebikes, when all bicycles are consider as vehicles under Australian road rules. So he most certainly could have received the exact same penalty if he was just on a regular push bike.
If we ignore the e-bike aspect for a moment, and focusing on the 12 months loss of motor vehicle license for a push bike offense, then I actually think that the guy has a point (yes I realise he is a total goose for riding high range over the harbour bridge, but talking in general rather than this specific case). The one point where I actually agree with the guy is that there is a massive inequity in the penalty depending on whether or not you also happen to hold a motor vehicle license (bearing in mind that one is absolutely not needed to ride a push bike).
Personally I would prefer it if all riding offenses on a push bike where completely decoupled from driver's license and demerit points ect. (Not that I've ever encountered problems like this myself.)
I find it interesting that cyclists love to go on and on time and time again about how unfair and unjust it is when police enforce speed limits for cyclists (even if it sounds stupid that its a 10/20kph speed limit), riding through stop signs, riding without a helmet, fine cyclists for not having a bell and that the police should be doing things better with their time. Then they are also the ones that cry out for police enforcement for escooters because they ride on the road to avoid poorly maintained footpaths (if there is one), they are going too slow in the bike lane or they just have a general distain for escooter riders because they've adopted the same motorist vs cyclist mindset. There's only so many police resources that can be devoted. Take the close pass law. Having known but also talked to officers there are some really close passes that get submitted. But there are also a lot of spammers that take up their time eg reporting trivial things such as passing 1.4m instead of 1.5m etc. They need the paperwork. If its contested in court time has to be taken off. Now this goes for pretty much everything. You also have arguments for more police needed for patrols. More police needed for patrolling hoon hotspots. More police needed to tackle the youth crime epidemic. And you need more police for blah blah blah. The entire Queensland Police Force including the admin team can't fill Suncorp Stadium. They have about 17,000 staff members which is about 9,000 less than the stadiums average attendance - https://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/sun ... ium/crowds But hey of that 12,000 the more of that can be put on enforcing some random escooter rider doing 28kph downhill the better???Andy01 wrote:I also think the problem is that the police probably aren't that interested because very little happens if things go to court.
In today's newsfeeds, the 65yo bicycle rider who was killed a couple of years ago by a speeding motorbike has resulted in the motorbike rider getting a 4 year sentence, suspended after 8 months
This was in spite of the motorbike ride being recorded on a GoPro, including it doing double the speed limit and doing wheelies, and routinely being on the wrong side of the road. So there was direct video evidence of the ride, right up to and including the collision, showing multiple offences - and still very little happened
So even if the police do charge someone not much seems to happen anyway.
find_bruce wrote: ↑Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:38 pmIn terms of post accident alcohol testing, in NSW its laid out in Schedule 3 of the Road Transport Act.
Key pointsWhile you refer to PCA, there is no Prescribed Concentration of Alcohol for a pedestrian or bicycle rider - it only applies to motor vehicles - details are in Part 5.1 of the Road Transport Act.
- Applies to hospitalised person who was a pedestrian, driver or rider of a vehicle - motor & unmotored
- Applies if the accident was on a road, which includes a shared path
- police can test driver or rider of a motor vehicle, regardless of whether hospitalised
- if a cyclist or pedestrian is not hospitalised, police can only test them if a person is killed or likely to die
A cyclist can be charged with "riding under the influence" - s112. What does this mean? Those with long memories will recall the debate whether the PCA should be 0.05 or 0.08 - 0.05 is the point at which few people are impaired by alcohol, 0.08 is the point at which most, but not all people will be impaired. Any prosecution or court case will require evidence from a pharmacologist. Those that I have spoke to will generally require a blood alcohol of 0.10 before they will say a person is impaired by alcohol.
the age limit is 16. 16 is not early teensPolice said the girl was in her early teens.
that's seems like a lotThe crash comes a day after the Sunshine Coast Hospital and Health Service reported 118 e-scooter riders were treated in its emergency department last year.