Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

So I just got back from a little ride with my Son 28 hub. Light was working properly. Put it back onto the Sunup and it wasn't working properly. Something is up between the 2 devices.

A little quick clip showing the voltage this Sunup Eco is putting out. From 14.6kph down to 7.2kph it is a consistent 7.1 volts. I have measured .44A as well
Voltage is too high and ampage is too low which is what I think the issue is
For 6V 3W at 15kph I should be recording .5A and 6V not 7.1V with .44A which is giving me 3.124W

So vote 1 for ze German reliability!!

Baalzamon wrote:A little quick clip showing the voltage this Sunup Eco is putting out. From 14.6kph down to 7.2kph it is a consistent 7.1 volts. I have measured .44A as well
Voltage is too high and ampage is too low which is what I think the issue is
For 6V 3W at 15kph I should be recording .5A and 6V not 7.1V with .44A which is giving me 3.124W

I hope you post this over at BROL if not already. There was some interest in this setup I believe.

Andrew

Aushiker wrote:

Baalzamon wrote:A little quick clip showing the voltage this Sunup Eco is putting out. From 14.6kph down to 7.2kph it is a consistent 7.1 volts. I have measured .44A as well
Voltage is too high and ampage is too low which is what I think the issue is
For 6V 3W at 15kph I should be recording .5A and 6V not 7.1V with .44A which is giving me 3.124W

I hope you post this over at BROL if not already. There was some interest in this setup I believe.

Andrew

BROL? Hmmmmmmmmm
Considering your new affinity for all things bent might it be a safe assumption that your referring to http://www.bentrideronline.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?
Have you mapped out your ideal electrics on your wishlist Andrew? What are the options for a Sinner Mango (trike?) with regards to a dynamo hub?

rifraf wrote:

Aushiker wrote:

Baalzamon wrote:A little quick clip showing the voltage this Sunup Eco is putting out. From 14.6kph down to 7.2kph it is a consistent 7.1 volts. I have measured .44A as well
Voltage is too high and ampage is too low which is what I think the issue is
For 6V 3W at 15kph I should be recording .5A and 6V not 7.1V with .44A which is giving me 3.124W

I hope you post this over at BROL if not already. There was some interest in this setup I believe.

Andrew

BROL? Hmmmmmmmmm
Considering your new affinity for all things bent might it be a safe assumption that your referring to http://www.bentrideronline.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ?
Have you mapped out your ideal electrics on your wishlist Andrew? What are the options for a Sinner Mango (trike?) with regards to a dynamo hub?

Yep posted over at BROL. Sinner Mango are providing I believe I spotted a son dynamo mounted mid drive

rifraf wrote:What are the options for a Sinner Mango (trike?) with regards to a dynamo hub?

External - front wheel


Internal - mid-stage drivetrain (with Nuvinci, but could equally be done on a Rohloff)



Dynamo spins to charge up the batteries I believe (one charging, one in use)

Baalzamon wrote:Yep posted over at BROL. Sinner Mango are providing I believe I spotted a son dynamo mounted mid drive

The option in the current price list is for a mid-drive mounted Shimano dynamo.

Andrew

There is a trike rider here in Perth that has the sunup eco. I think his is the model prior to mine, I am going to offer him to test it on a ride together and see if it behaves with his current setup or not.

il padrone wrote:

rifraf wrote:What are the options for a Sinner Mango (trike?) with regards to a dynamo hub?

External - front wheel

Internal - mid-stage drivetrain (with Nuvinci, but could equally be done on a Rohloff)

Dynamo spins to charge up the batteries I believe (one charging, one in use)

Thus endith the lesson - very well done.
Thank you IP

sunup wrote:Sorry for the delay. I referred the issue that you mentioned regarding the Supernova E3 lamp. the long and the short of it is that at low speeds the DS1-R probably wont generate enough power to service that model of lamp. However, the good news is that we will be bringing out a newer version that is aimed at addressing this very issue in time for the Taipei Cycle Show in March.

Interesting that they say that.... 27kph to get 3 LEDS up but they are no way bright compared to Son 28. At 27kph the lights are full on by Son 28

Baalzamon wrote:
Interesting that they say that.... 27kph to get 3 LEDS up but they are no way bright compared to Son 28. At 27kph the lights are full on by Son 28

So, aimed at the Cadel Evans end of the market I might hit that sort of speed going downhill but sounds way too energetic for my tastes My sondelux manages to wake up the edelux at a walking pace which as it happens is when I require the output. Nothing worse I can imagine spinning up large and creeping slowly up a incline and my lights going out My language would cause the wombats to flee

For those interested in dynamos Dave McCraw takes a look at the hub dynamo friction.

Dave concluded ...

When the difference between ‘good’ and ‘bad’ chain lube and two superficially similar tyres is around 30x more than the difference between an ordinary hub and a dynamo (daylight hours) and 4x more than the difference between an ordinary hub and a dynamo (at night), you’d better start asking hard questions about your chain cleaning products/routine and whether or not you should be splashing out on new tyres!

Most people, of course, can’t tell the difference between different brands of chain lube and perhaps not even between comparable models of tyre. Certainly it’s a popular comment by dynamo users that they can’t tell whether their lights are on or off (in daylight!)

Even sample variation between production runs of any particular tyre probably exceeds the drag of a hub dynamo with the lights on… but how many of us spend as much effort making sure to buy just the right examples of a particular model of tyre as we do avoiding dynamos?

For no-holds-barred maximum efficiency, obviously you want to bring your power with you in the form of batteries; but for 99.9% of us, there’s little real reason to avoid all the goodness of a fully self-powered bike…

Andrew

Aushiker wrote:Exposure, the lights people are getting into the dynamo market with a new repackaged dynamo and a new light.

Wiggle are now selling the Exposure light and rebadged SP dynamo hub. Sadly they sell the light for much $$$ separately but for $90 more you get the package with either a red or black dynamo hub. Only 28H or 32H available. If Wiggle have these maybe the market wasn't so good for an MTB dynamo headlight?
http://www.this link is broken/exposure-revo-m ... -hub-pack/

Wiggle are also about to sell (or resell) the Shimano dynamo hubs DH-3N72 but for about double what I can get them for in Germany, and they're old school designs. Prices are similar at SJS Cycles in the UK but at least they also sell the SP hubs and for not much more than current Ebay prices.

I think Wiggle's problem is that xxcycle sells the same Shimano 3N72 dynamo built up in a wheel for not much more than Wiggle sell it alone. I have received one for $130 including shipping.

Another possibility to add to the mix ... The Siva Cycle Atom, a Kictstarter project. There is also a Gizmodo posting on it.

Personally I will be sticking to hub dynamos but this may appeal to some.

Andrew

Another option on the market it seems is the Velogical rim dynamo ...



The link to the manufacturer's page (translation) can be found here.

Andrew

I am thinking about building up a 24" rim with a dynamo (and/or a 20") and I assume the SONdelux will be fine with the 24" but I was thinking that maybe giving a SP Dynamo a shot. What is the thoughts on one of these working in 24" rim? How are the owners of the SP dynamos finding them? I haven't checked yet but assume that the SP come in a six-bolt disc version.

Thanks
Andrew

Aushiker wrote:I am thinking about building up a 24" rim with a dynamo (and/or a 20") and I assume the SONdelux will be fine with the 24" but I was thinking that maybe giving a SP Dynamo a shot. What is the thoughts on one of these working in 24" rim? How are the owners of the SP dynamos finding them? I haven't checked yet but assume that the SP come in a six-bolt disc version.

I have an SP dynamo PD-8 & yes it is 6 bolt disc version - nomenclature is easy, 1st letter, "S" is intended for 20" wheels & "P" for 26/700c wheels. 2nd letter "V" = rim brakes, "D" = 6 bolt disc, final number is the model "7" = switchable or "8" lightweight ~ 400g.

It's a bit early for me to make long term observations as I have only been running it for a month or 2, but I am happy with it so far. Maybe I am insensitive, but I can't notice any drag nor vibration at any speed.

You will notice that using an s version on 700c wheels produces less power - nominally 2.4W, so that a 24" wheel will be closer to 2.4W than 3W. I have a vague memory of someone using the P version in a 20" wheel, but I can't find it ATM, sorry.

I suspect either will work fine in a 24" wheel, after all the hub doesn't know the size of the rim, just the RPM & AFAIK there is no upper limit to the speed - at least not within the realm of bikes. My preference would be the P version for more power, but you might like to check with Kerry at Klite.com.au or https://www.facebook.com/kLite.com.au" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Aushiker wrote:I am thinking about building up a 24" rim with a dynamo (and/or a 20") and I assume the SONdelux will be fine with the 24" but I was thinking that maybe giving a SP Dynamo a shot. What is the thoughts on one of these working in 24" rim? How are the owners of the SP dynamos finding them? I haven't checked yet but assume that the SP come in a six-bolt disc version.

Thanks
Andrew

The new Son 28 will be fine as well, and is cheaper than the Son Delux

SON 28 is a universal hub dynamo, useable for all wheel sizes from 16 up to 29 inches

I have SP hubs built for 700C and 20", the latter as a disc version, both are just fine, roll nicely. However why bother with disc? Your front fork has the mounts for V-brakes, just needs the posts bolted back in and you can then borrow anyone's 24" wheel and a V-brake to see if it's worth the fuss.

And as to the fuss your fork works with a 520mm version of the 24" and just a V-brake, I've already tried it on my Giro20. Remember that there's several different 24" standards and the range of tyres is often either narrow or wide but low pressure low quality. The 520mm version is just narrow (23mm) tyres plus one CX knobbly called the Spanky. What people in the US were using was another standard of 24" but I couldn't sort out if they were using decent rims and tyres, even if I could buy the same. I took the 24" front conversion as being a fad, not a serious performance change that people would stand by, went back to 20" (as did others, quietly). Besides the limited choice in tyres and tubes you had a higher BB, altered steering geometry and you may have to then buy a shorter crankset or suffer heelstrike.

Has anyone ever tried using the 451mm version of the 20" rim instead of the 406? It must give a little of the advantages that people have hoped for with swapping to 24" without any of the disadvantages. And you could still use a dynamo hub meant for a 20" without fear.

The 24" rim I had been offered is a Velocity A23 which is a 520 mm rim and Schwalbe Durano HS399 Folding tyres, 23 mm are available for them, i.e., go fast setup.

That said you have convinced me Dave to stick with a 20" build so still need a dynamo and a rim but. I am thinking Velocity 20" and 26" rims.

I want to be able to run 28 mm tyres as a commuter/Audax and I can use the existing Alex DA 16 as a touring wheel for now if need or probably just fit wider tyres to the new rims. So that means a Velocity A23 or Aeroheat married to XYZ dynamo. Both are 406 mm rims.

The A23 20" is 290 grams and 23 mm wide and the Aeroheat 20" is 24 mm wide and 330g. The A23 is a more aerodynamic profile. Both are available in 32 spokes.

Mmm maybe a A23 on the front and a Aeroheat on the rear is the way to go.

As to disc brakes. I already have disc brakes and have no desire to switch to v-brakes so a disc dynamo it needs to be.

On the subject of the dynamo it is back to SONdelux versus SP SD-8 or PD-8. Thanks Bruce for your feedback, further investigation confirms that the SD-8 is indeed a 20" dynamo and that it is meant to output the full 3 watts in a 20" wheel. The SD-8 has a reported weight of 385 grams (PD-8 weighs 410 grams) versus the SONdelux coming in at 395 grams plus adaptor for six bolt rotor.

Not much difference weight wise, five year warranty on the SON, price is $362 whereas the SP SD-8/PD-8 ex Taiwan is $152. I think that might settle things even though I really like my SON hub on the Surly.

Interesting the eBay SP seller recommends the PD-8 for 20" wheels.

Owners of bicycles with 20" wheels. We recommend the P series hub dynamos even for 20" wheels as they will produce more power/light at lower speeds. The risk of burning out lamps is unlikely as modern dynamo LED lights have in-built voltage limiters. I run a PD-8 on my Bike Friday without problems and can hardly notice the additional drag. If you plan to recharge electronic devices, the extra power is a key benefit available only to 20" wheel bicycle owners.

Andrew

Aushiker wrote:Interesting the eBay SP seller recommends the PD-8 for 20" wheels.

Owners of bicycles with 20" wheels. We recommend the P series hub dynamos even for 20" wheels as they will produce more power/light at lower speeds. The risk of burning out lamps is unlikely as modern dynamo LED lights have in-built voltage limiters. I run a PD-8 on my Bike Friday without problems and can hardly notice the additional drag. If you plan to recharge electronic devices, the extra power is a key benefit available only to 20" wheel bicycle owners.

Thanks Andrew, I was sure I had read it somewhere.

Was going to mention that SJS Cycles in the UK now sells SP dynamo hubs then I checked the pound to $ xch rate. Ouch.

just4tehhalibut wrote:Was going to mention that SJS Cycles in the UK now sells SP dynamo hubs then I checked the pound to $ xch rate. Ouch.

Ouch is an understatement. I think the eBay seller out of Taiwan is the best option at the moment. Any thoughts on rims?

Andrew