Smart trainers and software

[Mr Purple]

'Off the MAAP' Stage 3 has added the Old Willunga Hill climb portal so there's actually a race ('group ride') ending in a solid climb this week.

4km/6.3% average. And I was dropped on the climb, which was painful! Mind you, I'll take 301W for 11 minutes any day, I don't mind being beaten by people who are actually faster than me. 7th out of 450 isn't too bad anyway.

Just have to work out the knack of maintaining VO2Max on a climb after 20 minutes plus at FTP leading into it. It's all good training!

[am50em]

Intervals.icu now uploads planned workouts to Zwift and downloads completed activities! Look for the Zwift box in /settings and click the “Connect” button:

https://forum.intervals.icu/t/intervals ... live/81764

[jasonc]

'Off the MAAP' Stage 3 has added the Old Willunga Hill climb portal so there's actually a race ('group ride') ending in a solid climb this week.

4km/6.3% average. And I was dropped on the climb, which was painful! Mind you, I'll take 301W for 11 minutes any day, I don't mind being beaten by people who are actually faster than me. 7th out of 450 isn't too bad anyway.

Just have to work out the knack of maintaining VO2Max on a climb after 20 minutes plus at FTP leading into it. It's all good training!

I did Old Willunga Hill this morning before my commute. the pace hurt for me

[Mr Purple]

I did Old Willunga Hill this morning before my commute. the pace hurt for me

It was painful. It didn't seem too bad on paper but I suppose 4km at 6.3% is basically two Gravatts end to end, and I should have expected it. Having it split into segments didn't help either, because I then had to target 300W+ on each one.

It didn't help that a 50yo Japanese lady in the 65-74kg class led a breakaway with 388W for 10 minutes and split up the whole field. Pretty sure she needs to check her power meter, that one, disqualified from Zwiftpower results.

[g-boaf]

This needs some votes:

https://forums.zwift.com/t/50kg-robo-pa ... ase/641951

[Mr Purple]

Yep. Crazy all the pacer bots are -175cm and 75kg now. Why exactly?

Quit my first race this morning, heat and humidity were just too much and I couldn’t get my HR down. Annoyingly was pretty comfortably holding the lead group in a competitive A grade JETT race too.

Sometimes it’s not worth the risk to keep spiking your HR over 190 every time the road goes slightly up.

[warthog1]

I am 183cm and 75kg.
I am guessing the pace bots are set around the average size of a rider. I look at most of the riders here and I am closeish to the median. Were that a pro-peleton I'd be a bit heavy
I am reading lighter riders here complaining Zwift is designed for heavy riders and that the heavier riders complain if it is changes. Those lighter riders are now complaining it is not designed for them and would like it changed to suit them. See any similarity here?
Problem is 50-60 kg doesn't make up the average size of the user base I would assume.

Anyway you are doing better than I to find it interesting enough to care.

[g-boaf]

I am 183cm and 75kg.
I am guessing the pace bots are set around the average size of a rider. I look at most of the riders here and I am closeish to the median. Were that a pro-peleton I'd be a bit heavy
I am reading lighter riders here complaining Zwift is designed for heavy riders and that the heavier riders complain if it is changes. Those lighter riders are now complaining it is not designed for them and would like it changed to suit them. See any similarity here?
Problem is 50-60 kg doesn't make up the average size of the user base I would assume.

Anyway you are doing better than I to find it interesting enough to care.

But a lot of women in Zwift are really light. The problem is the majority argues it's not possible to have more robopacers of different weights, yet in the previous times that's exactly what did happen and every time at Halloween there would always be extra robopacers.

So we could guess that maybe it's not possible to have robopacers of different weights, or it's not possible except for specific few weeks of the year?

The lighter riders have shut-up and just been dealing with it, but now that the pace-dynamics have also been mucked up they are not silent for any longer. That topic was posted two days ago by Cat Allen (the leading female rider in Zwift) and already has 79 votes. So there is a lot of anger.

[Mr Purple]

I am reading lighter riders here complaining Zwift is designed for heavy riders and that the heavier riders complain if it is changes. Those lighter riders are now complaining it is not designed for them and would like it changed to suit them. See any similarity here?
Problem is 50-60 kg doesn't make up the average size of the user base I would assume.

Pacer rides aren't competitive anyway. The problem is not the weight of the pacer, it's the complete lack of variety.

2W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. 4.1W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. It's basically saying 'here's your meat and potatoes, take it or leave it'.

To say it's not technically possible is absurd - the 'A' grade pacer used to be 65kg. I don't actually suspect it's targeted at any rider group, it'll be some stupid technical reason they're all the same weight, and Zwift are spectacularly lazy at fixing anything like that.

I saw one of my races from another viewpoint - a certain and very suspect rider uploads everything to Youtube. He's 81kg and allegedly 5.6W/kg FTP. His numbers were sitting between 5.1-5.2W/kg the whole time, and you could see me in the background randomly surging between 2W/kg and 8W/kg. This is actually probably not a Zwift issue, it's just what us lighter riders have to do to keep up with a pack on a relatively flat route.

[g-boaf]

To say it's not technically possible is absurd - the 'A' grade pacer used to be 65kg. I don't actually suspect it's targeted at any rider group, it'll be some stupid technical reason they're all the same weight, and Zwift are spectacularly lazy at fixing anything like that.

I think it's just laziness at fixing it, or that they made the decision which is excellent and have no intention to go back.

I saw one of my races from another viewpoint - a certain and very suspect rider uploads everything to Youtube. He's 81kg and allegedly 5.6W/kg FTP. His numbers were sitting between 5.1-5.2W/kg the whole time, and you could see me in the background randomly surging between 2W/kg and 8W/kg. This is actually probably not a Zwift issue, it's just what us lighter riders have to do to keep up with a pack on a relatively flat route.

That could be the trainer device he is using as well. Certain power meters are also very popular because they give good power readings. 450w is a hefty FTP but not impossible.

There are some with over 500w from what I've heard. I don't know what their IRL FTP or performance is.

[Mr Purple]

This guy rides six hours a week, all in Zwift, and has no outdoor history that I know of. Something’s definitely ‘off’ but from what I can see the community accepts it, there may be more to the story than I know.

I’m actually beginning to suspect actual doping. Either that or he’s just an absolute freak with no motivation to use it in the real world or even elite level Zwift racing.

There are riders with better numbers but they usually list their professional or Olympic history in their bio.

[g-boaf]

There is an app that can be used between Zwift and your trainer to adjust the power.

I cannot remember the name of it but I seem to remember the rowing folk used it to connect their rowing machines up to Zwift. But it could also be used for bad purposes if someone wanted to.

I do know some folk just won't ride outside, they've had bad experiences on the road or lost a friend through IRL cycling (eg, hit by car) so Zwift is all they do. That's not so unusual - it's just how some people are.

[warthog1]

Pacer rides aren't competitive anyway. The problem is not the weight of the pacer, it's the complete lack of variety.

2W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. 4.1W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. It's basically saying 'here's your meat and potatoes, take it or leave it'.

To say it's not technically possible is absurd - the 'A' grade pacer used to be 65kg. I don't actually suspect it's targeted at any rider group, it'll be some stupid technical reason they're all the same weight, and Zwift are spectacularly lazy at fixing anything like that.

I saw one of my races from another viewpoint - a certain and very suspect rider uploads everything to Youtube. He's 81kg and allegedly 5.6W/kg FTP. His numbers were sitting between 5.1-5.2W/kg the whole time, and you could see me in the background randomly surging between 2W/kg and 8W/kg. This is actually probably not a Zwift issue, it's just what us lighter riders have to do to keep up with a pack on a relatively flat route.

Fair enough they could have the option for a lighter pace rider. They certainly charge enough so it shouldn't be a monetary issue.

The whole competive thing on an electronic app is just a crock imo. Morons cheat in real life, they are going to do so worse remotely and in anonymity.

To be positive, it is convenient and safe. That is the limit of its' positive attributes imo.

[Mr Purple]

The whole competive thing on an electronic app is just a crock imo. Morons cheat in real life, they are going to do so worse remotely and in anonymity.

To be positive, it is convenient and safe. That is the limit of its' positive attributes imo.

I treat the competitive aspect as motivation to make me achieve numbers I need a lot of motivation to achieve. I accept that a lot of other people's numbers are not going to be genuine, and I really don't take that much enjoyment in actually winning something; it just confirms that no-one faster than me showed up to that one!

I'm finding Zwift more motivating than Fulgaz now simply because some people actually care enough to call out dubious behaviour. Make any complaints on Fulgaz about people doing 50km/hr with 100W or riding at 300-400W for hours on end and the community there accuses you of taking it too seriously. It's pretty demotivating putting effort into genuinely achieving something, only to have it all wiped out by an obvious cheat or an idiot.

In Zwift you're always going to have it wiped out by someone, and most of the time they're someone genuinely faster than you. That's fine, weirdly!

[warthog1]

If it gets you riding then it is worthwhile I guess.
Yes digging deep hurts. I don't do it much anymore as my best, even though it wasn't that good, was a long time ago.
I'll put in for a climb, or if I am feeling good, put in a bit of effort for a higher average speed. That is about it though. Everything is on the slide at 56.
It is mental health more than anything now.

[Mr Purple]

If there's anything that gets you enthused about riding in the real world, it's an hour or so three times a week pushing 270W chasing cartoon figures from your sweltering garage.

Real world rides suddenly become a lot easier!

[warthog1]

If there's anything that gets you enthused about riding in the real world, it's an hour or so three times a week pushing 270W chasing cartoon figures from your sweltering garage.

Real world rides suddenly become a lot easier!

[g-boaf]

Pacer rides aren't competitive anyway. The problem is not the weight of the pacer, it's the complete lack of variety.

2W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. 4.1W/kg? It's 75kg/175cm. It's basically saying 'here's your meat and potatoes, take it or leave it'.

To say it's not technically possible is absurd - the 'A' grade pacer used to be 65kg. I don't actually suspect it's targeted at any rider group, it'll be some stupid technical reason they're all the same weight, and Zwift are spectacularly lazy at fixing anything like that.

I saw one of my races from another viewpoint - a certain and very suspect rider uploads everything to Youtube. He's 81kg and allegedly 5.6W/kg FTP. His numbers were sitting between 5.1-5.2W/kg the whole time, and you could see me in the background randomly surging between 2W/kg and 8W/kg. This is actually probably not a Zwift issue, it's just what us lighter riders have to do to keep up with a pack on a relatively flat route.

Fair enough they could have the option for a lighter pace rider. They certainly charge enough so it shouldn't be a monetary issue.

The whole competive thing on an electronic app is just a crock imo. Morons cheat in real life, they are going to do so worse remotely and in anonymity.

To be positive, it is convenient and safe. That is the limit of its' positive attributes imo.

That's why I'm with you on virtual racing. I see how many folks cheat, so I cannot trust them. I'm jumping up and down trying to push checks and balances to catch people out on that but it's a hard battle.

Especially when racers themselves say "as long as it's not in racing". Well no, that's not alright. Cheating is bad wherever it is, no matter what.

[Mr Purple]

Especially when racers themselves say "as long as it's not in racing". Well no, that's not alright. Cheating is bad wherever it is, no matter what.

This infuriates me more than it should as well. There's a genuinely decent rider on Fulgaz who I'd always have a tight battle with in the weekly challenges, winning more times than not.

He weighs 69kg versus my 61kg, and thinks nothing of taking out my almost always uphill virtual KOMs with less overall power on a fairly routine basis. I'd be mortified in that position, but he thinks nothing of changing his weight/CdA or other settings and openly cheating to beat a guy who clearly knows he's cheating.

Cooler conditions and I almost took my first 'A' grade win on Zwift this morning. 22km with 261m elevation - 31:25 with average power of 279W, normalised power of 307W and 20 minute of 287W. Unfortunately the last few hundred metres were slightly downhill and I didn't drop the heavy sprinter by enough on the climb so he pipped me by 0.5 seconds.

Puts my 20 minute on Zwiftpower up to 4.7W/kg so knocking on the door of A+ now (4.82W/kg). Even better I'm pretty sure my Zwiftpower racing score will go down (good) 20 points or so, taking me to 90th overall in Australia tomorrow. Top 100 goal achieved!

Now just to actually win an 'A' race and hit the magic 4.82W/kg. Unfortunately have a week or two off for minor surgery so might slip back a bit from there. Though honestly I need a break anyway.

[warthog1]

Got on it again for the first time in a while. Did a structured session on it. Hurt a bit but far less boring than the regular stuff I've been droning away on.
Still hugely prefer outside, as I can easily avoid traffic, unlike many I guess. But that was better than previously. A while since I've done them.

[g-boaf]

It's supposed to hurt, that hurt equals getting better!

I have been also doing some difficult workouts, all in the 90% or higher zones for long amounts of time.

I did that yesterday then went out today and did 95km with the new bike fit, I was surprised I still had pretty good speed left over. So the workouts must be working and the bike fit seems to be dialed in a lot better than before.

Now I can try to increase the distances regularly more than 120km without being in saddle related agony.

[warthog1]

It's supposed to hurt, that hurt equals getting better!

I have been also doing some difficult workouts, all in the 90% or higher zones for long amounts of time.

Yes, I know. At 56 I aint getting better
I am simply slowing the decline.
Way, way off my road Strava times from years back. Strava is bad for that.


Good to hear your improvement from injury.

[warthog1]

Now I can try to increase the distances regularly more than 120km without being in saddle related agony.

Having some saddle issues here too on the new roadie. Not so much related to fit though.
It has a short nosed Prologo scratch M5.
I like it but the saddle is a bit wide where it flares from the nose to the wider rear.
I may have to go back to a Fizik Arione as I have spent over a decade on. Don't like saddles with cutouts and cant find a short nose with a narrower nose without a cutout

[jasonc]

Don't like saddles with cutouts and cant find a short nose with a narrower nose without a cutout

Specialized power arc?

[warthog1]

Don't like saddles with cutouts and cant find a short nose with a narrower nose without a cutout

Specialized power arc?

Thanks.
Looks ok but still has a cutout.
Do specialised bike shops let you try out the saddle before purchase? I have heard someone does.