Page 59 of 61
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:13 pm
by warthog1
MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:08 pm
Now just gotta build it ......
Actually, I found it pretty easy, so all good in the end.
That is me out. I am no wheel builder
It would be a good skill to have though.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 8:49 am
by MichaelB
warthog1 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:13 pm
MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:08 pm
Now just gotta build it ......
Actually, I found it pretty easy, so all good in the end.
That is me out. I am no wheel builder
It would be a good skill to have though.
It's not that hard to build one4, but build it well is another matter.
Thinking about selling my Truing jig/stand after I've done this one, as probably not really going to use it after this one.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:57 am
by jasonc
jasonc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:22 pm
biker jk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:18 pm
jasonc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:54 am
Tried setting up my new (tubeless) gravel wheels yesterday. installed 22mm wide rim tape in 24.5mm internal width wheels. inflated. heard lots of pops. looked good. came back an hour or so later. both flat. on one of them i could hear the air coming out between the tyre and the rim. so i threw in sealant figuring that might seal it. nope. leak must be elsewhere. i think i need wider rim tape.
Yes the rim tape needs to be 2-3mm wider than the internal rim width. Try 27mm wide rim rape.
cheers
wider tape didn't work first time. will try the soapy water trick to see if i can see where it's leaking
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:33 pm
by find_bruce
warthog1 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:13 pm
That is me out. I am no wheel builder
It would be a good skill to have though.
MichaelB wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:08 pm
It's not that hard to build one4, but build it well is another matter.
Thinking about selling my Truing jig/stand after I've done this one, as probably not really going to use it after this one.
Not only is it not hard, in my view if you're starting with a true rim, the correct spokes and take your time, even an amateur can build a very serviceable wheel.
The individual skills involved are straightforward - all you are doing is twisting a nipple onto a spoke 24-32 times & checking the tension. Ultimately you're looking for a wheel that's round, true & consistent spoke tension. It's not that I don't make mistakes, when I do it's just a case of back off the tension & start again. Where mastery comes in is the time that it takes to build the wheel & with less spoke windup meaning you don't have to adjust as much after riding a few kms
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 6:04 pm
by WyvernRH
find_bruce wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:33 pm
Not only is it not hard, in my view if you're starting with a true rim, the correct spokes and take your time, even an amateur can build a very serviceable wheel.
The individual skills involved are straightforward
<snip>
This is true. I've been building for 40 years or more now and it is all down to patience and method. especially these days. It is a LOT easier with the stiff rims available today compared to the noodles I learned on back in the 70's. Even today I can't build at commercial speed, but I end up with a competent result after about three times the amount of time the old bloke I learned from used to build a 32 or 36 hole racing wheel back in the 70's to an immaculate standard (Ave Vic!
).
Give it a go!
Richard
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 6:41 pm
by warthog1
I like my CF wheels. Free speed in a 50mm + CF rim. No interest in shallow aluminium rims but I guess they are the best to learn on?
Haven't even broken a spoke in the last 10 years so no need to learn I guess.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:37 pm
by Duck!
Shallow aluminium rims are the worst to learn on, but the best for honing your skills after you've got the basics!
find_bruce wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 12:33 pm
Not only is it not hard, in my view if you're starting with a true rim, the correct spokes and take your time, even an amateur can build a very serviceable wheel.
The individual skills involved are straightforward - all you are doing is twisting a nipple onto a spoke 24-32 times & checking the tension. Ultimately you're looking for a wheel that's round, true & consistent spoke tension. It's not that I don't make mistakes, when I do it's just a case of back off the tension & start again. Where mastery comes in is the time that it takes to build the wheel & with less spoke windup meaning you don't have to adjust as much after riding a few kms
The most daunting aspect is working out how to get the lacing started for your chosen pattern. After that, just be methodical through the process.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:25 am
by jasonc
jasonc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:57 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:22 pm
biker jk wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:18 pm
Yes the rim tape needs to be 2-3mm wider than the internal rim width. Try 27mm wide rim rape.
cheers
wider tape didn't work first time. will try the soapy water trick to see if i can see where it's leaking
success! no leaks. one wheel down, one to go
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:02 am
by biker jk
jasonc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:25 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:57 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 1:22 pm
cheers
wider tape didn't work first time. will try the soapy water trick to see if i can see where it's leaking
success! no leaks. one wheel down, one to go
What was the fix?
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:13 am
by warthog1
Duck! wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:37 pm
Shallow aluminium rims are the worst to learn on, but the best for honing your skills after you've got the basics!
How so?
It doesn't seem to make sense to experiment on a relatively expensive rim like a deeper carbon is.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:41 am
by jasonc
biker jk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:02 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:25 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 9:57 am
wider tape didn't work first time. will try the soapy water trick to see if i can see where it's leaking
success! no leaks. one wheel down, one to go
What was the fix?
LOTS of soapy water on the tyre. it finally popped enough
so:
changed rim tape to wider (27mm)
changed valve to a muc off valve
LOTS of soapy water
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:03 pm
by Duck!
warthog1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:13 am
Duck! wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:37 pm
Shallow aluminium rims are the worst to learn on, but the best for honing your skills after you've got the basics!
How so?
It doesn't seem to make sense to experiment on a relatively expensive rim like a deeper carbon is.
Shallow aluminium rims are quite soft and very easy to pull into a state of collapse as tension gets high. Carbon rims are very stiff and strong and practically fall into place as tension is dialled in. You will round off or break nipples before harming the rim!
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:20 pm
by warthog1
Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:03 pm
warthog1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:13 am
Duck! wrote: ↑Tue Jan 07, 2025 7:37 pm
Shallow aluminium rims are the worst to learn on, but the best for honing your skills after you've got the basics!
How so?
It doesn't seem to make sense to experiment on a relatively expensive rim like a deeper carbon is.
Shallow aluminium rims are quite soft and very easy to pull into a state of collapse as tension gets high. Carbon rims are very stiff and strong and practically fall into place as tension is dialled in. You will round off or break nipples before harming the rim!
Thanks
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 12:49 pm
by WyvernRH
warthog1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 5:20 pm
Duck! wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 4:03 pm
warthog1 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:13 am
How so?
It doesn't seem to make sense to experiment on a relatively expensive rim like a deeper carbon is.
Shallow aluminium rims are quite soft and very easy to pull into a state of collapse as tension gets high. Carbon rims are very stiff and strong and practically fall into place as tension is dialled in. You will round off or break nipples before harming the rim!
Thanks
If you don't want to go carbon you could try a mid or deep section alloy rim. I've been using some no-name mid depth 32h 700c ones from e-Bay for road bike restorations recently which were pretty cheap. Not only are they decent rims but as stiff as... well a stiff thing.
As Duck says they let you dial in the tension without undue deflection, very helpful (and forgiving) to a rookie builder
Richard
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:25 pm
by jasonc
jasonc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:41 am
biker jk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:02 am
jasonc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 10:25 am
success! no leaks. one wheel down, one to go
What was the fix?
LOTS of soapy water on the tyre. it finally popped enough
so:
changed rim tape to wider (27mm)
changed valve to a muc off valve
LOTS of soapy water
tried the rear last night. as i had already put sealant in it, i made a mess. checked this morning and it was down to 20psi. i think i need to have another go with the soapy water
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:59 pm
by biker jk
jasonc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:25 pm
jasonc wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:41 am
biker jk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2025 11:02 am
What was the fix?
LOTS of soapy water on the tyre. it finally popped enough
so:
changed rim tape to wider (27mm)
changed valve to a muc off valve
LOTS of soapy water
tried the rear last night. as i had already put sealant in it, i made a mess. checked this morning and it was down to 20psi. i think i need to have another go with the soapy water
I thought the bead was on the rim properly already? Didn't you hear it pop? If the bead is on properly and you've added sealant but it doesn't hold air then the most likely problems are the valve or rim tape application.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 2:40 pm
by jasonc
the front wheel worked with the wider rim tape, the new valve stem and the soapy water. this is the rear wheel that I retried with all the above.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2025 6:50 pm
by warthog1
WyvernRH wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 12:49 pm
If you don't want to go carbon you could try a mid or deep section alloy rim. I've been using some no-name mid depth 32h 700c ones from e-Bay for road bike restorations recently which were pretty cheap. Not only are they decent rims but as stiff as... well a stiff thing.
As Duck says they let you dial in the tension without undue deflection, very helpful (and forgiving) to a rookie builder
Richard
Thanks.
I can get great carbon wheels from farsports or light bicycle at a great price pre-built, so that is me sorted I reckon.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:37 pm
by WyvernRH
jasonc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:25 pm
tried the rear last night. as i had already put sealant in it, i made a mess. checked this morning and it was down to 20psi. i think i need to have another go with the soapy water
This is starting to sound like 'fit an inner tube time'....
Richard
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:41 pm
by jasonc
WyvernRH wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 12:37 pm
jasonc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:25 pm
tried the rear last night. as i had already put sealant in it, i made a mess. checked this morning and it was down to 20psi. i think i need to have another go with the soapy water
This is starting to sound like 'fit an inner tube time'....
Richard
ha. not for a gravel bike. I run tubes in road bike wheels. I've replaced the rim tape. 99% sure it's leaking out of the bead. so, will double check the bead and rim are clean. try and try again!
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 5:34 pm
by warthog1
Dunno what you are doing wrong there Jason but it must be getting annoying.
I have 4 sets of tubeless wheels. I have had tyres difficult to seat but a storage tank 240v compressor that will run a spray gun fixes that. Dump a heap of air down a valveless valve stem generally makes it seat. The only tyre that wouldn't was a 40c gravelking sk. The beads on them seem loose as a goose. Googled a solution. Tube in to seat both beads. Unseat one side, slip the tube out, tubeless valve back in and dump more air quickly. That sorted it!
Every other tyre has either seated with a regular track pump or the compressor has been needed a handful of times.
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:19 pm
by jasonc
I think I've got it. This was the wheel I put sealant in. There was some very sealant in the tyre bead ( I had cleaned the rim bead)
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2025 6:48 pm
by warthog1
Nice!
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 2:48 pm
by jasonc
Nope. Flat again this morning. Seemed to last longer so will go and clean all the tyre bead
Re: I'm a champion bike mechanic...
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2025 3:58 pm
by warthog1
Get it on, seated and inflated. Put some water in the laundry sink or bath, spin the tyre and rim through the water. Run the valve though the water too.
Identify the source.
When inflated and sealant added the wheeel needs to be put on its side and wobbled to coat the tyre and bead with sealant.
I am no expert but have never had problems by doing that.