Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

opik_bidin wrote: How to test it?

get out of the car. Try to walk and cycle in your area. Try catching bus and trains to go to the shops or services from your home. Is it hard? that means that the environment is hostile to other modes other than cars

Hmmmm….

Bike path at my back fence that goes 100m past my place of work, 18km away.
Bus stop 150m away, which will connect to the
Train Station, 800m away.
Shopping Centre via bike or bus. Closest one 500m away. Convenience store 450m away.

Outer north suburbs, Melbourne.

We're definitely not intelligent as we're trying so hard to make ourselves extinct

Traffic infra can also be a barrier. What should be just a 10 minute walk can be a 1 hour drive

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 1251842049

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 2378378241
Yo #Sydney!
How is the #WestConnex coming along?
@CloverMoore




MH@MathewHounsell
15 Feb 2018
Please note the full #westconnex project is $41 billion and includes a new F6 motorway to Presidents Ave and a Western Harbour Tunnel to Frenches Forest. So 781 km of cycle highways or 3338 km of protected bike lanes. #NSWpol

When People say sharing the road with cars is OK for cyclists (and pedestrians, as many areas don't have footpaths so they are expected to us cars or walk on the road)



Bonus if the train flipped the car and the train driver says " damn you, your fault because you're too slow)

$500m for station car parks? Other transport solutions could do much more for the money

In Tuesday’s federal budget, the Coalition government announced its Commuter Car Park Fund, a A$500 million package intended to make it easier for people in the suburbs and regions to drive to their local railway station.

While this is a drop in the ocean compared with the wider transport infrastructure budget, we’re going to use it here as a starting point to run some thought experiments to see if this is the best way to spend our taxes to help people get around.

The construction cost for a single parking spot can range from A$10,000 for a surface car park to A$68,000 per space in multi-level structures. So, if all the money is spent on surface car parks, the new fund could build 50,000 spaces at railway stations around Australia.
....
There are cheaper ways to move an extra 45,000 people a day to and from railway stations and around our cities.

To quote one of the references

There is a lot of confusion out there about Park-and-Ride. ....
Let’s start with the basic math.

Really great transit generates high land value around stations.
Free parking presumes low land value around stations.
It’s a contradiction.

For those who haven't read The High Cost of Free Parking (or the original 1997 paper) here's a primer on market distortions through parking subsidies
The elephant in the planning scheme

The classic quote was last week from Scomo....

Something along the lines of to reduce congestion we need to get people onto the trains. To do that we need to provided more car parks at train stations so they can drive to the train station.

human909 wrote:The classic quote was last week from Scomo....

Something along the lines of to reduce congestion we need to get people onto the trains. To do that we need to provided more car parks at train stations so they can drive to the train station.

Politicians need to wake up for the fact that land around transit, especially trains is too valuable for car parks. Either its for human: Residential and business, school, workplace, leisure, etc or goods : warehouses.

Instead of getting there by cars, put the humans there and leave the nature undamaged. huge carparks around train or BRT stations is usually a sign of sprawl, which is environment destruction

More from politicians who cannot think beyond a car:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 51chm.html

“I don’t think they have looked carefully enough at the practical implications of this,” Mr Wynne said in an interview with The Age.
He said, for example, that parents had to get their kids to school."

Apparently children can't get to schools without cars.


(Oh and I fully recognise that living in Australia without a car isn't as easy as living in other countries without a car. But that is a situation we have CAUSED. The only way to make living without a car easier is to stop promoting cars over other transport. This is exactly what Moreland Council is trying to do but we again have state governments out of touch with reality.)

human909 wrote:(Oh and I fully recognise that living in Australia without a car isn't as easy as living in other countries without a car. But that is a situation we have CAUSED. The only way to make living without a car easier is to stop promoting cars over other transport. This is exactly what Moreland Council is trying to do but we again have state governments out of touch with reality.)

Agree

I'd say that the real issue is not car but the lack of support for other forms of transportation. One of my clients has decided to go car free and don't cycle. The trains are congested at their local train station that either you can't get on or the driver has been instructed not to stop. Some have resorted to catching the train in the wrong direction and getting onto the correct train further away from their destination

Thoglette wrote:$500m for station car parks? Other transport solutions could do much more for the money

In Tuesday’s federal budget, the Coalition government announced its Commuter Car Park Fund, a A$500 million package intended to make it easier for people in the suburbs and regions to drive to their local railway station.

While this is a drop in the ocean compared with the wider transport infrastructure budget, we’re going to use it here as a starting point to run some thought experiments to see if this is the best way to spend our taxes to help people get around.

The construction cost for a single parking spot can range from A$10,000 for a surface car park to A$68,000 per space in multi-level structures. So, if all the money is spent on surface car parks, the new fund could build 50,000 spaces at railway stations around Australia.
....
There are cheaper ways to move an extra 45,000 people a day to and from railway stations and around our cities.

To quote one of the references

There is a lot of confusion out there about Park-and-Ride. ....
Let’s start with the basic math.

Really great transit generates high land value around stations.
Free parking presumes low land value around stations.
It’s a contradiction.

For those who haven't read The High Cost of Free Parking (or the original 1997 paper) here's a primer on market distortions through parking subsidies
The elephant in the planning scheme

I wonder how much it costs to install the ECO cycle Underground parking system for bicycles. These have a very small footprint above ground, and hold around 200 bicycles per silo. You could easily provide undergrounding parking for 1000+ bicycles in a tiny fraction of the space required to hold 1000 cars, and it won't pollute the landscape with a multi-storey concrete car park.

I feel that in Sydney with the North West Metro, they have missed an opportunity here. They have provided hundreds of car parking spots at some of the stations, but barely anything for bicycles.

queequeg wrote: I feel that in Sydney with the North West Metro, they have missed an opportunity here. They have provided hundreds of car parking spots at some of the stations, but barely anything for bicycles.

that's very true. there're a lot of houses between 5-10km from the metro stations. ride-able distance on pushbikes, even for my 8yo,
too short a distance to drive.

queequeg wrote:
I wonder how much it costs to install the ECO cycle Underground parking system for bicycles. These have a very small footprint above ground, and hold around 200 bicycles per silo. You could easily provide undergrounding parking for 1000+ bicycles in a tiny fraction of the space required to hold 1000 cars, and it won't pollute the landscape with a multi-storey concrete car park.

I feel that in Sydney with the North West Metro, they have missed an opportunity here. They have provided hundreds of car parking spots at some of the stations, but barely anything for bicycles.

.......it would cost way too much to install automated cycle storage - need to remember that anything that encourages cycling is always way too expensive

some interesting stuff in this article on parking at metro stations in Melbourne

https://www.danielbowen.com/2018/11/02/ ... g-problem/

...."Some stations also have substantial levels of bicycle access, often outstripping capacity of bike cages. At Newport, where the Parkiteer cage is regularly full, locals resorted to the Pick My Project initiative to try and get another one… it wasn’t selected. Given one cage storing 26 bikes takes the space of about 2 cars, and is something like an eighth of the cost, why isn’t government just routinely installing more bike parking, either cages or another design, as demand grows?"

...."the Coalition has pledged $30 million for an additional 450 spaces, an amazing $66,000 per space......

...."It just looks like most people drive, because the car parks take up so much damn space.

a couple of other pointers - round SE Melbourne where I live a majority of dedicated/segregated shared paths follow railway lines - great to get to the station but only once you have got to it but I can't see any proposals that would make it more attractive/safer for those that would consider riding to a station as an alternative to driving - increasing car park sizes = more traffic = less attractive to cycle

- used to live in UK and to get to (Sheffield) city centre by tram from home park and ride it was or cycle on a very unpleasant road - despite a bus route passing front door..double deck bus ran at 30minute(+) intervals and at times that didn't match the tram timetable plus the stop at the tram terminal was some distance away across busy road......new bus service running at around 10minute intervals, stopping within metres of the trams -smaller comfortable bus, through ticketed, drivers with radios and would hold tram if only a few minutes away or wait if tram about to arrive....not really really difficult stuff .... and it worked...car park no longer overflowing into side streets and impression that car volumes reduced at peak periods

https://www.news.com.au/technology/inno ... z3JtjhGhpM

Reducing car usage = saving

How Australian households can save $1500 a month — ditch the car and get on a bike
New data shows that by making a single change to the daily routine, Australian households could save up to $1500 every month.

Transportation costs are rising at a faster rate than inflation, and the average family spent $18,221 last year in getting from point A to B in their car, according to data released by the Australian Automobile Association.

The AAA data also found the cost of owning, operating and maintaining a vehicle increased by $7386 in 2018.

opik_bidin wrote: Transportation costs are rising at a faster rate than inflation, and the average family spent $18,221 last year in getting from point A to B in their car, according to data released by the Australian Automobile Association.

The AAA data also found the cost of owning, operating and maintaining a vehicle increased by $7386 in 2018.

That's almost 70% increase, in one year? Really? Who here experienced that?

Yep. That figure doesn't make sense at all.

fat finger problem .... if you go to AAA press releases then $736 is your number which is still significant...could buy several bicycles for that

"The Australian Automobile Association’s quarterly Transport Affordability Index shows the typical Australian metropolitan household is now spending $736 more on transport than it was a year ago, with rising fuel prices costing an additional $671 over the year and playing a major role in the overall cost increases."

https://www.aaa.asn.au/2018/11/26/trans ... d-budgets/

BN/BV says Pay Australians to ride to work. $5 a trip.

Research shows that for every kilometre cycled, society benefits up to $1.07. An average bike commute of around 10km contributes $10, but an average commute by car in Australia costs society up to $9.30.

Rewarding people who ride to work with a $5 bonus will encourage even more people to swap out cars for bikes. Keen bike commuters who ride every day could earn up to $1,100 a year, while also saving on car and petrol costs.

The Australian Automobile Association’s latest figures show that for an average Australian family, running a car costs more than $18,000 per year, whereas a bike costs less than $400.

Successful pay-to-ride tax schemes are already running in Italy, The Netherlands and the UK.

They don't reference the research.

BN/BV says it is Time for debate on car parking and they're hosting it.

Forum event: is car parking a waste of space?
When: Wednesday 17 April 6:00pm – 8:00pm

Where: Bicycle Network, level 4 246 Bourke Street, Melbourne

Entry:The forum is free for Bicycle Network members. Entry for non-members is $10.99 which can also be put towards a Bicycle Network membership.

antigee wrote:...could buy several bicycles for that

Or a front wheel.

P!N20 wrote:

antigee wrote:...could buy several bicycles for that

Or a front wheel.

Or a set of water resistant jersey and shorts (I note the price tag has dropped from the introductory £480)

Thoglette wrote:

P!N20 wrote:

antigee wrote:...could buy several bicycles for that

Or a front wheel.

Or a set of water resistant jersey and shorts (I note the price tag has dropped from the introductory £480)

Pffft...cheap at that price. Wanna look cycle chic ??

800 bucks of looking chic (I note that it wasn't worth it to enough people, down to $410 or something)

Unrelated to the convo, but worth noting cos it urks me. From that hate raphe article

A common accusation levelled at Rapha is that it is a brand that is all about style, but would Sir David Brailsford, with his mantra of ‘marginal gains’ have teamed up with a kit supplier that was concerned solely with image?

Er, the team who used an F Type Jag for carrying the TT bikes in the TDF? The team that is now a vanity project of yet another Englishman who can't stand to see the sun set on the empire??

Nah, not concerned with image at alllllll…..

human909 wrote:Yep. That figure doesn't make sense at all.

Jesus H Christ!!!!

I'd thought I had another bloody stroke

I was in a clients office yesty, first time in months. Lo and behold, they now have a rack of e-bikes for their people to get around on (City of Melb. based maintenance contractors). Very cool. Wouldn't let me have one tho

Thoglette wrote:BN/BV says it is Time for debate on car parking and they're hosting it.

Forum event: is car parking a waste of space?
When: Wednesday 17 April 6:00pm – 8:00pm

Where: Bicycle Network, level 4 246 Bourke Street, Melbourne

Entry:The forum is free for Bicycle Network members. Entry for non-members is $10.99 which can also be put towards a Bicycle Network membership.

Signed up!

Now, what's the form on appearance? I'll be going straight from the job, and looking like it. Will I be shunned?