BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:34 pm
Thoglette wrote: ↑Thu Jun 20, 2024 11:22 pm
I’m now completely confused as to who’s saying what to whom and why they’re getting upset.
I’ll get back to the topic ‘ron .
I think a good start would be classifying the different types of anti-MHL positions.
1) ultra libertarians - don't believe the state has any role to play in restricting individual choice
2) moderate libertarians - believe helmets are of some value, but don't believe the state should be mandating use
3) public health perspective - believe the relative disbenefits of mandating helmets outweighs the benefits (the population level health benefit of cycling outweighs the injuries due to no helmets)
4) somewhat sceptical of the claims of helmet supporters - may be on the fence about the benefits of helmets in all situations, but are sceptical about the broad claims of widespread protection
5) reject all claims of helmet benefit
That's a rough sketch. A civil conversation exploring these categories would be good, followed by identifying common ground and strategies that lead to meaningful conversation about how to repeal these laws.
Don't respond to the bait!
In the old Sydney Cyclist and Brisbane Cyclist forums, (
http://www.sydneycyclist.com/ ) we had a MHL group and pretty solid discussions around the topic. We would even meet face to face from time to time when events like tweed runs or City of Sydney and /or Bike Sydney events made it easy to do so.
In part, many good things came from it.
The rough group was lawyers, IT and web designers, an epidemiologists, local/ council and state govt members, an anaesthetist ( from Brisbane), a range of current and past leaders and managers who had done time in bicycling communities and cycling advocacy groups like Bicycle NSW and Bike Sydney, a few journalists and a collection of people who just liked to bike both fast and slow. The whole MHL online and face to face discussions worked as it was done in an informative and even fun manner.
Traction in MHL is very important and to get this you need people to both engage and then put time and effort. Having like minded peers helps but to make a difference you need that core single minded group just based on working in and around the legislation and then someone who knows how to steer cats. At one stage I think we came (very) close to making changes in MHL in NSW but along came Duncan Gay and it all went belly up.
The one and only thing on the loose agenda was a agreement that as soon as someone, anyone, mentioned helmet efficiency or the manipulation of verified statistics “the meetings” would just close.
I like others in this group have had the chance to sit around the big tables of local, state and federal policy makers about biking in Sydney and NSW and had seen as soon as anyone mentioned anything around helmet efficiency, how a positive meeting to that point in time would see folders closed and people just shut down and start looking for a cup of coffee.
I would normally have been “happy” to help and have done so in the past, but based around the endless pages of unverified factoids and half cocked opinions in this discussion, I can't see any strategy here that will work with the five minutes you may get with policy doers and the legislative makers.
It is also hard/ impossible to see any fun can be had by being involved in any of this.
With the recent cold snap in NSW a mate saw these long forgotten pics of me with dirty hands and asked the question, why don’t we try and rework this in Sydney and then into the smaller communities across NSW?
These are the types of projects that everyone can get involved in and yes, they are worth the time and effort and do make a difference.
https://bikesydney.org/homeless-connect-4-june-2013/
So Bob, will this “project” of yours really make a difference?
Honestly, I consider from my past experiences that you are not the right fit to get this up and running, so sorry, I am a no. (And now feel have wasted far too much time even typing this out...)