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There were two really strong periods of constructive posting and ideas on that where 99.9% of posters got on board. Then it went back to a collective circle jerk.
Id agree that most think more cyclists are a good thing to reduce traffic congestion, but only if they stay off the roads and stop holding up traffic!
Yeah sorry.
Absolutely.warthog1 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:00 pmFair enough. That would be something that would give the thread purpose imo.
There are a handful of people viewing and interacting on this thread.
A decent strategy to apply pressure to remove the law and to reach a wider audience makes sense.
I think everyone agrees more cyclists is a good thing and not having to wear a helmet everytime you get on a bike for whatever reason would help achieve that.
when it was obvious the anti MHL'ers were a solid minority.Be keen to know what others, well just the anti MHL mob on this site, have really done to move legislation other than the pointless posting of POVs here again - please do post them up....
I used to be a solid, we have the right to be on the roads and should exercise that right, sort of rider.baabaa wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 12:28 pmBe keen to know what others, well just the anti MHL mob on this site, have really done to move legislation other than the pointless posting of POVs here again - please do post them up....
From my end - still not a big topic when so much needs to be done in all thing biking but have spoken ( and raised the topic ) with three Local government Councillors and the state member- all feel the wins are coming from bike infra and that as the roads are becoming more unsafe for all road users, the best way to get more people biking is to give them what they want and that is to get away from fast moving motor vehicles.
This project is a big win
https://www.esc.nsw.gov.au/council/majo ... b-strategy
Will try and get the fed members ear over the next few months but think the feds have a lot more important issues to consider.
Locally - People still use bikes to go to the beaches, schools and shopping but if they want to go for a long ride this off the road project is a nice option (even if some people need to drive to the start of the state forests)
Hey, no problem. You see things your way, I see them my way. I’m not gonna call you names or criticise you for having a different opinion
fat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 10:05 amrandom quotes but none about demonising people for wearing a helmet
fat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pmI came across this today
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.g ... w-1993.pdf
Anyone here (face it, Thoglette) familiar with it? Has it been considered to be impartial or has it been discredited?
I see that the Monty Python "5 minute argument" sketch is now considered an example of demonising people for just wanting to wear their helmet???BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:13 amrandom quotes but none about demonising people for wearing a helmet
il padrone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:00 pmYour type makes me puke!!!tristen wrote:why isn't that an argument?jules21 wrote: that's not an argument
<link now broken to Mont Python sketch>
It's also interesting that the compliance for riders 19+ y.o. was 90%. I'm not sure how many people here were riding in 1993, I was, and the enforcement of MHL at that time was essentially zero. To me this really underlines the futility of MHL for adults, as it's a pretty safe bet that helmet wearing would still be 90% or more with simple helmet advocacy (rather then MHL). Considering that helmet comfort and design has improved immensely since 1993, I'd estimate it would be well over 90%, and in the higher risk categories (roadies and full on MTB), probably closer to 99% for those guys, even without MHL.trailgumby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:35 amHaven't read through the full document yet, but interesting to note it comments the numbers of kids riding on the road and at schools sites had continued to drop - 30% on the previous year at page 8 of the document.
The first thing I found interesting about this report is that it managed to condense a fairly comprehensive study in 34 pages. These days that'd be barely past the table of contents and the exec summary! To be followed by a few hundred pages of turgid prose and impenetrable figures.fat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pmI came across this today
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.g ... w-1993.pdf
Anyone here (face it, Thoglette) familiar with it? Has it been considered to be impartial or has it been discredited?
You said it, not me.BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:01 pmInteresting here (see excerpt below), in what seems a fairly pro-MHL report,fat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pmI came across this today
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.g ... w-1993.pdf
Anyone here (face it, Thoglette) familiar with it? Has it been considered to be impartial or has it been discredited?
Apparently, being A Serious Cyclist makes you less likely to break the rules. Someone should have told Lance.In line with previous surveys the 91~93 observations again found that riders wearing cycling clothes had a very much higher level of helmet wearing. Three explanations are advanced for this: (i) those who dress properly are "serious cyclists" and thus likely to comply; (ii) those who equip themselves with cycling clothes will also have a helmet; and (iii) cycling clothes are seldom worn on very short trips and helmets may also be less likely to be used for these types of trips
It seems a bit excessive to make every social science type report have to write an individual conclusion when a generic pro forma like below would suffice.
That is the polar opposite of my experience. I was living in Nambucca Heads. The local plod took great delight in handing out fines and it took a huge toll on the local cycling population. Before MHL many people rode short trips. After MHL I was one of the few who continued riding - and yes I went to Coffs Harbor and bought a helmet so I'd avoid the fines which you were pretty much guaranteed to be given if you had the temerity to ride without a helmet - non-compliance wasn't an option.
Ok, it must have been very much region dependent. Here in Newcastle it wasn't initially policed with much vigour.
Yeah, it's the short or impromptu local trips, such as to the shops or to visit friends etc, that MHL really seemed to hit the hardest.Before MHL many people rode short trips.
The drop in school kid rates is always one of the big points raised, and while I have reason to doubt it there was nothing like that in my personal school experience. I started riding to school in grade 5, and was one of 3 who did so. Year 7 and it’s off to big boys school, and I was one of about 15-20. In a school of app 600. Yr 7 was 1977. It floated around that until Yr 10, then it just dropped right off. That was 1980. I remember that cos they got rid of most of the bike racks, they just weren’t being used.trailgumby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:35 amfat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pmI came across this today
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.g ... w-1993.pdf
Anyone here (face it, Thoglette) familiar with it? Has it been considered to be impartial or has it been discredited?
Haven't read through the full document yet, but interesting to note it comments the numbers of kids riding on the road and at schools sites had continued to drop - 30% on the previous year at page 8 of the document.
I hate everyonewarthog1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:58 pmI am a bit younger than you F&O but still crusty. Far call rode to my high school too. Year7 1980.
I rode the whole way through too. Yr12 '86.
One other yr 12 did.
There was ~150 yr12s.
I hated being claustrophobically jammed in on the bus.
I rode even if it was pissing down raining. Just dried out over the course of the day
I still hate public transport when it is crowded to this day.
Matter of fact I just hate crowds.
fat and old wrote: ↑Sun Mar 26, 2023 8:49 pmThe drop in school kid rates is always one of the big points raised, and while I have reason to doubt it there was nothing like that in my personal school experience. I started riding to school in grade 5, and was one of 3 who did so. Year 7 and it’s off to big boys school, and I was one of about 15-20. In a school of app 600. Yr 7 was 1977. It floated around that until Yr 10, then it just dropped right off. That was 1980. I remember that cos they got rid of most of the bike racks, they just weren’t being used.trailgumby wrote: ↑Sat Mar 25, 2023 9:35 amfat and old wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2023 6:00 pmI came across this today
https://roads-waterways.transport.nsw.g ... w-1993.pdf
Anyone here (face it, Thoglette) familiar with it? Has it been considered to be impartial or has it been discredited?
Haven't read through the full document yet, but interesting to note it comments the numbers of kids riding on the road and at schools sites had continued to drop - 30% on the previous year at page 8 of the document.
Location of the schools was a big factor I think. Primary was in what was a very sketchy area. Very. And Secondary had main arterial roads all around it you couldn’t avoid.
I still reckon the rise of the second car in the 70’s and media in the 80’s was a big driver of the long term drop in numbers