Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

What were the main causes for the accidents - cars/trucks/buses involved or just the silly bad luck accidents that can happen to anyone without warning?

As this is the MHL discussion and any wild guess away from the real facts is the standard, my stab in the dark would be:
- first up the number of people that ride on foot paths so more bike to pedestrian accidents
and
- the growing aging population ( and declining in % of young people) - so more just falls off bikes from older people than prangs with vehicles
see https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php
With or without lids, Japan is a great place to bike and will still on my list for a longer bike with train travel tour.

baabaa, I think you've hit the nail on the head in regards to how these accidents came to be.

I was recently in Japan during their Summer period (bloody hot) in Mid July and most of August. and observed the general cycling community and yes many are quite old, from say 60-mid 80's, they mainly go to and from the Shopping centres, the commuters aging from 25-50 yrs, bike parking at every station is chock-a-block with bikes.
It's extremely rare to see anyone wear a helmet unless they are riding a racing bike, many women wear wide brimmed hats and men just wear baseball caps or nothing at all.
Many school kids ride their bikes to and from school, from year 6 to Senior High and many young people who are over the age to have a car license don't bother, they either cycle or catch the fantastic public transport on offer.
As you pointed out, riding on the footpath is popular because in most places, it's allowed unless a sign says you can't. Footpaths however in most city areas are quite wide but on main thoroughfares, there's not footpaths and so riding on the roads is the only way.
Bike must avoid and give way to Pedestrians and cars must give way to Bicycles. One caveat is that if you do hit a ped, you could be sued bigtime and you're deemed at fault. When cops are bored and not busy, you can pull you over just to check you out and if you're a foreigner, you better have your Passport or Alien card with you (alien cards are for those who currently reside in Japan.

My M-I-L is 82, she'll ride her bicycle to the shopping centre and then wheel it home like a trolley carrying boxes full of bottles of Tea and boxes of water on the back rack and groceries in the front basket, I was amazed at how she coped with it all.
The speed limit for main thoroughfares in the burbs is 40kph and usually in the back streets it's only 30kph so I don't know where or how those amounts of accidents are happening. In that report, it says from 2017 to 2021 that over 2,145 ppl lost their lives during bicycle accidents, but over that 4 year period, how many Millions of people all over Japan actually ride their bicycles on the daily basis, about the majority of them so it's extremely tiny percentages we're looking at in real life but the Japanese Government in general are very react full when citizens in any numbers and especially the elderly get injured or killed. In Japan, the elderly are a very powerful voting force and they believe in following the letter of the law.

brumby 33

baabaa wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:04 pm

What were the main causes for the accidents - cars/trucks/buses involved or just the silly bad luck accidents that can happen to anyone without warning?

- the growing aging population ( and declining in % of young people) - so more just falls off bikes from older people than prangs with vehicles
see https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php

Also, Japan has seen a huge uptake in e-bikes over that 4 year period (2017 to 2021), so that could also be a factor. I remember a few years ago when the Netherlands noticed an uptick in serious cycling accidents they traced it the uptake in e-bikes, particularly with older riders.

uart wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:32 pm

baabaa wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:04 pm

What were the main causes for the accidents - cars/trucks/buses involved or just the silly bad luck accidents that can happen to anyone without warning?

- the growing aging population ( and declining in % of young people) - so more just falls off bikes from older people than prangs with vehicles
see https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php

Also, Japan has seen a huge uptake in e-bikes over that 4 year period (2017 to 2021), so that could also be a factor. I remember a few years ago when the Netherlands noticed an uptick in serious cycling accidents they traced it the uptake in e-bikes, particularly with older riders.

I suppose people could go faster with the e-bikes without as much effort? I've never ridden one so I wouldn't know. I suppose they are probably quite heavy compared to the typical road bikes I'm used to.

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:38 pm

I suppose people could go faster with the e-bikes without as much effort? I've never ridden one so I wouldn't know. I suppose they are probably quite heavy compared to the typical road bikes I'm used to.

Yeah, for a fit rider a (legal) ebike is typically slower. But in the Netherlands it was older riders who generally would have been riding much slower on their conventional upright Dutch bikes, now suddenly "whizzing" around at 25+ km/hr. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing was happening in Japan.

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:38 pm

uart wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:32 pm

baabaa wrote: ↑

Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:04 pm

- the growing aging population ( and declining in % of young people) - so more just falls off bikes from older people than prangs with vehicles
see https://www.worlddata.info/average-age.php

Also, Japan has seen a huge uptake in e-bikes over that 4 year period (2017 to 2021), so that could also be a factor. I remember a few years ago when the Netherlands noticed an uptick in serious cycling accidents they traced it the uptake in e-bikes, particularly with older riders.

I suppose people could go faster with the e-bikes without as much effort? I've never ridden one so I wouldn't know. I suppose they are probably quite heavy compared to the typical road bikes I'm used to.

Haven't ridden one either. Any users of the things about? I can see the speed difference being a factor for older and new rider types, I'm wondering about braking for the older riders who come off their sit up and ride bikes. Is it the same? Quicker? Slower? More/less powerful? Does the heavier weight slow reaction time?

Yes E-bikes are very popular over in Japan and at about $2K cheaper than ours. In fact Bridgestone are one of the biggest makers of bikes over there and some of the ebikes you can buy in Department stores for around $1,500 have 2 motors, one for pedal assist and one on front hub, they are called Dual Motor.

I'm thinking next time I go over, might buy one. all powered by Yamaha electric motors.

The old Mama-Chari women's bike are still around $150-200 in bike shops and some women riding electric cargo bikes with 2 child seats that already come with it. they get along quite well, don't know how they will go with mandatory helmet laws but in general, the Japanese public will likely comply without too much fuss. They just put it down to "well, I guess there's got to be a good reason for it"

brumby33

fat and old wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:51 am

I'm wondering about braking for the older riders who come off their sit up and ride bikes. Is it the same? Quicker? Slower? More/less powerful? Does the heavier weight slow reaction time?

Unless grip strength is an issue then braking is going to be better. And braking ability should only be an issue for the those with very poor brakes and/or very poor grip strength. If neither of these are the case the lower centre of gravity would improve the maximum braking ability of the bike.

All that said most bicycle users, particularly the elderly, rarely reach the maximum braking limit. (just like it is pretty rare to do so in a car)

Attention, skill, speed plays a much greater role than the braking or even handling performance.

Seattle Times (Feb. 17, 2022 ) reported
King County repeals mandatory bicycle helmet law

“Helmets save lives, full stop. But the disproportional enforcement of the requirement gives us concern” about how it affects people who are homeless and communities of color, McDermott said before the vote.

Slate has a recent article on the topic with a US perspective The Cult of Bike Helmets

Is there quantifiable results from that change in King County?

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:04 pm

Is there quantifiable results from that change in King County?

There will be: less harassment of minorities (per the article)

In terms of health outcomes, I doubt anyone will be looking closely enough. The existing North American studies comparing jurisdictions with & without MHLs said “Meh, too much noise”.

Note that these only looked only at cyclist injuries rather than overall health outcomes. The benefits of increased cycling rates are well understood. As are the benefits for reduced vehicle usage.

I was hoping for whatever percentage increase of people riding.

But that’s obviously harder to quantify.

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:31 pm

I was hoping for whatever percentage increase of people riding.

But that’s obviously harder to quantify.

It is, as there’s little direct measurement ; nor good proxy (eg fuel sales for car use) ; nor good understanding of the recovery time, (see Newfoundland cod ) especially given the impact the momentum of MV as-a-substitute ( see Yehuda Moon on the safety of roads around schools).

Only anecdotal...but I saw a great example of cycling taking the place of car trips due to no helmet laws today. Working up in industrial Craigieburn, I noticed an absolute motza of Sikhs riding to and fro from what I assume must be a temple or community centre. Not 5, or 10, or 20. well over 40, and that was what I noticed when facing the footpath while working. Mostly blokes, but a fair few women as well (all the women I saw had helmets on and were accompanying men). Given the location, I'd lay odds that every one of those riders replaced a car trip.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cyc ... 5co8i.html

Just wondering if this reflects people's experience.

I haven't regularly cycled in south-eastern Australia for 20 years, when my bike was my primary means of transport in inner Sydney (and for a brief period was a CBD bike courier).

I now live in regional NT where we probably have the most considerate drivers in Australia. A close pass here is a car width and that is almost invariably interstate drivers. Usually people will almost or fully cross into the oncoming lane, waiting patiently if there is an approaching car which would prevent that.

If it really is this bad, it's a pity the authorities aren't tackling this sort of risk rather than aggressively pursuing the chimera of helmet safety.

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:42 am

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cyc ... 5co8i.html

Link is broken. I presume you're refering to Cyclists’ injuries at record high, riders blame aggressive motorists

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:42 am

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cyc ... 5co8i.html

Just wondering if this reflects people's experience.

I haven't regularly cycled in south-eastern Australia for 20 years, when my bike was my primary means of transport in inner Sydney (and for a brief period was a CBD bike courier).

I now live in regional NT where we probably have the most considerate drivers in Australia. A close pass here is a car width and that is almost invariably interstate drivers. Usually people will almost or fully cross into the oncoming lane, waiting patiently if there is an approaching car which would prevent that.

If it really is this bad, it's a pity the authorities aren't tackling this sort of risk rather than aggressively pursuing the chimera of helmet safety.

Riders don't run away, generally are compliant so they are an easy target. They are a minority too. So easy for Police and governments to target.

Car drivers are a majority, so if governments or Police upset them they retaliate when it comes time to vote. So they are not to be messed with...

Call me cynical.

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:03 am

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:42 am

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/cyc ... 5co8i.html

Just wondering if this reflects people's experience.

I haven't regularly cycled in south-eastern Australia for 20 years, when my bike was my primary means of transport in inner Sydney (and for a brief period was a CBD bike courier).

I now live in regional NT where we probably have the most considerate drivers in Australia. A close pass here is a car width and that is almost invariably interstate drivers. Usually people will almost or fully cross into the oncoming lane, waiting patiently if there is an approaching car which would prevent that.

If it really is this bad, it's a pity the authorities aren't tackling this sort of risk rather than aggressively pursuing the chimera of helmet safety.

Riders don't run away, generally are compliant so they are an easy target. They are a minority too. So easy for Police and governments to target.

Car drivers are a majority, so if governments or Police upset them they retaliate when it comes time to vote. So they are not to be messed with...

Call me cynical.

G-Boaf, you're cynical.

Not that being cynical makes you wrong.

DS

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:42 am

If it really is this bad, it's a pity the authorities aren't tackling this sort of risk rather than aggressively pursuing the chimera of helmet safety.

My experience in the NT (Darwin & Parmie only) is that the cops really don't give a flying-XXXX about helmets. They've got far more serious issues to deal with.

On the other hand, NSW's finest seem to have different priorities.

MHLs are not a priority in NT. Fine is only $25 and in 19 years of riding I've only had it enforced once, by new recruits. I put in a complaint, as it didn't seem fair there was a sudden apparent change in policy, and the senior policeman who handled it pretty much apologised, saying it wasn't really a priority.
And MHLs don't apply on footpaths (where it's also legal to ride).

No surprise that we have one of the highest cycling rates in the county (and no meaningful difference in cyclist head injury rate)s.

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:59 pm

MHLs are not a priority in NT. Fine is only $25 and in 19 years of riding I've only had it enforced once, by new recruits. I put in a complaint, as it didn't seem fair there was a sudden apparent change in policy, and the senior policeman who handled it pretty much apologised, saying it wasn't really a priority.
And MHLs don't apply on footpaths (where it's also legal to ride).

No surprise that we have one of the highest cycling rates in the county (and no meaningful difference in cyclist head injury rate)s.

Is there proper evidence ?

The other thing is, that for Australia, NT traffic conditions are in no way similar to any of the other capital/larger cities in reality ....

meh, I still think it ain't hard to wear a helmet.

MichaelB wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:37 pm

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 16, 2023 1:59 pm

MHLs are not a priority in NT. Fine is only $25 and in 19 years of riding I've only had it enforced once, by new recruits. I put in a complaint, as it didn't seem fair there was a sudden apparent change in policy, and the senior policeman who handled it pretty much apologised, saying it wasn't really a priority.
And MHLs don't apply on footpaths (where it's also legal to ride).

No surprise that we have one of the highest cycling rates in the county (and no meaningful difference in cyclist head injury rate)s.

Is there proper evidence ?

Yes.

MichaelB wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:37 pm

The other thing is, that for Australia, NT traffic conditions are in no way similar to any of the other capital/larger cities in reality ....

Yeah. It's way hotter and pretty spread out. Or it's raining - and hot (in the Top End). Or bitingly cold (in the Centre).

Your point?

MichaelB wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:37 pm

meh, I still think it ain't hard to wear a helmet.

Well done. Your personal feelings don't change the reality that helmet laws negatively impact cycling rates.

BobtheBuilder wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 7:09 pm

Well done. Your personal feelings don't change the reality that helmet laws negatively impact cycling rates.

This.

Why cyclists support laws which actively discourage cycling, when we know that more cyclists makes roads safer, well, it is beyond me.

99% of countries don't have mandatory helmet laws, there's a reason for that.

By the way, any proof that helmet laws have made cycling safer? Yeah, didn't think so.

DS

Oh dude......

DavidS wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:34 pm

By the way, any proof that helmet laws have made cycling safer? Yeah, didn't think so.

A reminder, from two decades of research.

The enduring popularity of helmets as a proposed major intervention for increased road safety may therefore lie not with their direct benefits—which seem too modest to capture compared with other strategies—but more with the cultural, psychological, and political aspects of popular debate around risk.

I'm too lazy to retype it all