Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tru ... 5ji0r.html

What if SUVs and the big pickup trucks had mandatory lower speed limits than cars - because of their size and weight?

g-boaf wrote: ↑

Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:47 am

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tru ... 5ji0r.html

What if SUVs and the big pickup trucks had mandatory lower speed limits than cars - because of their size and weight?

My theory is that it isn't so much 'speed kills' as 'momentum kills'.

So if you choose to drive a vehicle twice as heavy as the average your speeding fines should be twice as much.

Energy = 1/2mv^2
So fines should go at squared power of the speed above the limit.

am50em wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:20 pm

Energy = 1/2mv^2
So fines should go at squared power of the speed above the limit.

Multiplied by the mass. And the “day-fine”: an individual’s daily income (or nominal return on net worth).

How about basing the fine on the vehicle’s pedestrian safety rating?

These all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.

Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.

DS

DavidS wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pm

These all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.

Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.

DS

Absolutely.
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2

Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.

Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???

You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.

Thoglette wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:39 pm

an individual’s daily income (or nominal return on net worth).

Norway yeah? I like that a lot. Fairest way all round, for anything other than trucks (proper trucks, 4.9t gvm and up).

elantra wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:47 pm

DavidS wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pm

These all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.

Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.

DS

Absolutely.
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2

Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.

Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???

You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.

30 years ago, 1994. That was pretty much the start of the swing to D/C 4wd utes with the Hilux fourunner and SR5 models. Of course, both Ford and Holden had utes that were extremely desirable to tradies, the Falcons and one tonners with the ubiquitous HZ Statesman front end, both with stonking V8's and live axles. The civil scene was dominated by landcruisers and patrols, the L/C Bundera was a popular toy. The well to do contractor had a Jeep Cherokee with V8 power. Panel vans were dead, and the Hiace van was the pic of sparkies and plumbers, the newer Merc vans were the mark of a well earning sparkie. By 1998 (26 years ago) I was in my third hilux, first dual cab. This was the one (3litre) that really saw the market take off. By that stage dealerships started to pay attention to hivis clothing when we walked in the door. In 1992 I went up to 25 minutes being ignored when I bought the VR Commodore! The full fruit 4wd's started when a few wholesalers saw an opportunity and started having Chinese copied gear brought in, maybe around 2005-7? Until then you'd have to go to ARB, ORS or TJM if you were not as well off and that stuff was not (and still isn't) cheap. When Ironman opened the doors we started seeing all of the dressed up units we see now.

There's always been fancy tradie cars of some sort or another. There's always been hate on those tradies. I've come to realise that it's very hard for some people to accept that a dirty working man can have a fancy looking toy that costs a bomb. Yes, in a lot of cases they're over the top, impractical around town and offensive to some. So what? Should we accept the ridicule of those who see 10-15k on a bicycle as stupid?

^^I miss reading your posts F&O.

After hiring a couple of utes over the years to pick up heavy stuff (car gearboxes, diffs etc.) the thing that gets me is just how impractical the 'high rider' style is.

And they're all like that now. It used to be if you bought a base model ute (Hilux etc.) it was at a car level. Now even the 2WD base models are jacked up to the sky so they look like the 4WD version.

I gather it's fashion and the lower ones don't sell, but have you ever tried putting a Valiant diff in a current model 2WD rental Mitsubishi Triton on your own as a 61kg climber? It's so much easier not having to lift it an extra half metre into the sky.

Mr Purple wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:26 am

I gather it's fashion and the lower ones don't sell, but have you ever tried putting a Valiant diff in a current model 2WD rental Mitsubishi Triton on your own as a 61kg climber? It's so much easier not having to lift it an extra half metre into the sky.

Was it a tray or a tub?

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:27 am

^^I miss reading your posts F&O.

How you doin Warty? Did I read you got yourself a canyon hereabouts?

fat and old wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:46 am

Mr Purple wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:26 am

I gather it's fashion and the lower ones don't sell, but have you ever tried putting a Valiant diff in a current model 2WD rental Mitsubishi Triton on your own as a 61kg climber? It's so much easier not having to lift it an extra half metre into the sky.

Was it a tray or a tub?

Tray.

Mr Purple wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:13 am

fat and old wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:46 am

Mr Purple wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:26 am

I gather it's fashion and the lower ones don't sell, but have you ever tried putting a Valiant diff in a current model 2WD rental Mitsubishi Triton on your own as a 61kg climber? It's so much easier not having to lift it an extra half metre into the sky.

Was it a tray or a tub?

Tray.

Dude!!! Of course it was high, it was a tray. Nothing to do with fashion, it's all about carrying capacity and practicality (both for the hirer and hire company) in a hire spec. Next time hire a tub, at last 200mm lower, maybe more! Or think outside the square. An old Val diff will fit in a hiace van. Nice and low.

In my experience with car hire companies you don't usually get a choice!

Thanks though, I wasn't aware there was a height difference, though it does make sense with the way it sits on the chassis.

Since then I've just gone with the van instead - much easier. Though last time I got 'upgraded' into a Renault Master instead of a Toyota Hiace. It was hilariously large.

Tray comment addded while you were replying!

Yeah, a tray spans the width of the vehicle so has to clear the wheels at suspension fully compressed. Tub has wheel arches so the guts are lots lower.

You're the consumer. It's your money, your choice. You used Eurotrash I suppose? Try sixt. We get 2wd's with tubs here, but maybe Qld doesn't have them.

fat and old wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:47 am

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:27 am

^^I miss reading your posts F&O.

How you doin Warty? Did I read you got yourself a canyon hereabouts?

Doing ok thanks mate. I thought about a Canyon but , there was a wait, unsure how easy to change bar/stem for fit and it was 105 di2. Got a Merida Reacto that was in the local shop for less and with Ultegra di2. Very happy

Not sure you can load a pallet into most tubs either. The wheel arches narrow the floor pan significantly. Bigger, flatter pan with a tray so more practical, versatile for loading. Yes higher though.

fat and old wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:17 am

elantra wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:47 pm

DavidS wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pm

These all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.

Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.

DS

Absolutely.
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2

Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.

Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???

You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.

30 years ago, 1994. That was pretty much the start of the swing to D/C 4wd utes with the Hilux fourunner and SR5 models. Of course, both Ford and Holden had utes that were extremely desirable to tradies, the Falcons and one tonners with the ubiquitous HZ Statesman front end, both with stonking V8's and live axles. The civil scene was dominated by landcruisers and patrols, the L/C Bundera was a popular toy. The well to do contractor had a Jeep Cherokee with V8 power. Panel vans were dead, and the Hiace van was the pic of sparkies and plumbers, the newer Merc vans were the mark of a well earning sparkie. By 1998 (26 years ago) I was in my third hilux, first dual cab. This was the one (3litre) that really saw the market take off. By that stage dealerships started to pay attention to hivis clothing when we walked in the door. In 1992 I went up to 25 minutes being ignored when I bought the VR Commodore! The full fruit 4wd's started when a few wholesalers saw an opportunity and started having Chinese copied gear brought in, maybe around 2005-7? Until then you'd have to go to ARB, ORS or TJM if you were not as well off and that stuff was not (and still isn't) cheap. When Ironman opened the doors we started seeing all of the dressed up units we see now.

There's always been fancy tradie cars of some sort or another. There's always been hate on those tradies. I've come to realise that it's very hard for some people to accept that a dirty working man can have a fancy looking toy that costs a bomb. Yes, in a lot of cases they're over the top, impractical around town and offensive to some. So what? Should we accept the ridicule of those who see 10-15k on a bicycle as stupid?

Well most Tradies today use their work vehicle as a play vehicle as well, just a matter of chucking the tools in the shed and back up to the Camper etc......how expensive are those vehicles now.....bloody Nora but it's all tax deductible and no fringe benefit taxes on Commercial vehicles, no matter how nice they look, they are still classed as commercial vehicles....but then, there are the You-beaut Television 4x4 shows that these guys get to go out and test awesome gear (lucky buggers) that are sponsored by the advertisers, all the top models, no basic jobs there with all the gear that get their own segments on the show.....and 4x4 camping shows all around the Country these days.......dig the price of caravans and campers today....they need their Dodge Rams and Chevvy Utes to tow their 3.5 tonne glampers but it doesn't end there....oh no...they are getting bigger....a former workmate of mine from Newcastle had recently retired, never owned a house, they (he and wife) just bought and sold Landcruisers and Patrols and optioned them up to the hilt and he was also a 4x4 driver trainer, he has now got his own You tube travelling channel and bought a 2 year old Ram 3500, it's a size where it's restricted under the heavy vehicle rules and must be speed limited to 100kph due to being over 4.2Tonne GVM , it's a Monster truck with a v8 Cummins diesel Donk in it. The van he's got on order is between 3.5t to 4 tonne and will be full time tourers once they get going. The set up will cost around $400K, still much cheaper than any house you can buy these days.
Another mate of mine decided his Landcruiser is too small so he bought a brand new 4 x 4 Isuzu crewcab truck with big tyres, a covered in back (similar to a tradie would have) with heavy duty checker plate base....again limited to 100kph due to it's weight and size, I estimate that vehicle would be around $180K set up then he has one of those Ultimate Campers probably worth 60k.....so these are only 2 lots of people that i personally know, early to mid 60's that don't mind spending up big on lifestyle machines....Still much cheaper than a house and with a set up like those, once your over 60, they'll do you for the rest of your lives....I'm also beginning to think that houses are just something that tie up too much money these days and i'm sick of mowing lawns.

I don't have a problem with large SUVs if they are used for towing something big, or needed for a tradie.

My issue is the ones that drive around town on the school run and do little or nothing else. Plenty of them in the bayside suburbs of Melbourne have never seen a dirt road or towed anything.

DS

DavidS wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:08 pm

I don't have a problem with large SUVs if they are used for towing something big, or needed for a tradie.

My issue is the ones that drive around town on the school run and do little or nothing else. Plenty of them in the bayside suburbs of Melbourne have never seen a dirt road or towed anything.

DS

Does your bike have all purpose flat bars or racer style drops?

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:19 pm

fat and old wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:47 am

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:27 am

^^I miss reading your posts F&O.

How you doin Warty? Did I read you got yourself a canyon hereabouts?

Doing ok thanks mate. I thought about a Canyon but , there was a wait, unsure how easy to change bar/stem for fit and it was 105 di2. Got a Merida Reacto that was in the local shop for less and with Ultegra di2. Very happy

Very swish! That stem ….cough cough…..

warthog1 wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:25 pm

Not sure you can load a pallet into most tubs either. The wheel arches narrow the floor pan significantly. Bigger, flatter pan with a tray so more practical, versatile for loading. Yes higher though.

Have a look at the ads! They claim “you can load a full size Euro pallet in our xyz model blah blah”! Talk about suggestive bollocks. Punters don’t see the Euro, they just see pallet. Just like the dumbass 3.5t towing ability on Navaras and Rangers.

Trays are also less likely to be damaged by Joe hirer than tubs and cheaper to repair.