Australian Cycling Forums - Bicycles Network Australia

from UK



The disturbing thing is, a combination of factors make this unsafe. The problematic thing is although the tech, intervention, methods to make walking, cycling and taking transit safe exist, the political will just isn't there. Plus we have the law protecting car drivers mistake while a pilot mistake is seen as a crime

Aucklands Safe street Program



Health, Economy and Environment arguments are there

"Face off - Cyclists not human enough for drivers: study"

https://www.medianet.com.au/releases/17 ... F8N2qVNDPc

If building trains and metro are hard, Bus or Certain vehicle only lane/roads are an option for those complaining the lack of public transport, but, will they give up a lane and parking spots?

I'm thinking of roads where only bus, taxi, trucks, business/emergency can get in, but private cars cannot.

Sydney Should follow

https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... BRmahpdXVk




Lord mayor Sally Capp has put car-loving Melburnians on notice: they are not going to like the city’s imminent new transport plan which will look at widening footpaths and expanding bike lanes.

The lord mayor, who said she had already been called a “car hater”, told a Committee for Economic Development of Australia event she was here to bust the myth that most congestion took place on the roads.

Last year the council flagged a congestion tax – which has been successfully introduced in Singapore, London and Oregon – which would charge drivers for the kilometres they travelled with a premium placed on busy areas during peak hour.

This proposed congestion tax would replace car registration fees.

https://twitter.com/Avidor/status/1095077051609034752

Whenever bright clothing is brought up, and wearing dark clothing means you are the one guilty in a crash, bring up this video

https://twitter.com/CityMinneapolis/sta ... 2252559360

Driving downtown for today's @Twins home opener? Watch out for Traffic Control Agents, who are out making sure everyone can get around safely. #openingday #twins

Hear from one Traffic Control Agent who was struck by a car ask drivers to pay attention in this video.

old book from the 90s, but still relevant today in terms of waht can be done to tame the car

https://roaddangerreductionforum.files. ... 1992-3.pdf

As with "road safety", defining how congestion is a problem, and hence its causes
and solutions, depends on your interest or viewpoint

There is another more compelling reason to see motorists' problems as at best
marginal, and to see motorists as the cause of the problem, rather than just another
group suffering from congestion. It is that there are no solutions to congestion
which can pander to the desire of commuters to drive to work.

The myth of motorists "paying their way" is dangerous in road safety terms as
it supports unjustified feelings of being discriminated against with respect to nonmotorists. It is therefore particularly wrong for figures in the road safety lobby, such as Murray Mackay of PACTS, to support the myth. Relative to other road
users such as cyclists and pedestrians, motorists most certainly do not pay their
way.

In fact, the costs of car and associated vehicle use are far greater than the
taxation paid by motorists. Motoring is subsidised out of the public purse. People
who walk or cycle instead of driving cost less than motorists, even after the contributions ofmotorists are counted. Cyclists and pedestrians in effect subsidise
motorists, not the other way round.

opik_bidin wrote:old book from the 90s, but still relevant today in terms of waht can be done to tame the car

https://roaddangerreductionforum.files. ... 1992-3.pdf

As with "road safety", defining how congestion is a problem, and hence its causes
and solutions, depends on your interest or viewpoint

There is another more compelling reason to see motorists' problems as at best
marginal, and to see motorists as the cause of the problem, rather than just another
group suffering from congestion. It is that there are no solutions to congestion
which can pander to the desire of commuters to drive to work.

The myth of motorists "paying their way" is dangerous in road safety terms as
it supports unjustified feelings of being discriminated against with respect to nonmotorists. It is therefore particularly wrong for figures in the road safety lobby, such as Murray Mackay of PACTS, to support the myth. Relative to other road
users such as cyclists and pedestrians, motorists most certainly do not pay their
way.

In fact, the costs of car and associated vehicle use are far greater than the
taxation paid by motorists. Motoring is subsidised out of the public purse. People
who walk or cycle instead of driving cost less than motorists, even after the contributions ofmotorists are counted. Cyclists and pedestrians in effect subsidise
motorists, not the other way round.

I was challenged on the "motorists are subsidised" thing. It's actually quite hard to illustrate... because I guess hardly anyone really thinks like that.

Comedian wrote: I was challenged on the "motorists are subsidised" thing. It's actually quite hard to illustrate... because I guess hardly anyone really thinks like that.

from the book, remember this is Uk in the 90's. It will probably much more bigger as cars become more efficient, gone hybrid and electric. and also land price has raised




It should be repeated that this does not include costs such as the loss of agricultural
land, greenhouse gas emissions, defence costs for protecting oil supplies, and
various adverse social effects.

One of the biggest costs could be loss of working
hours and health care for people suffering bad health (from cancers and other
problems caused by pollution) which have not been costed here.

The total of specific road user taxes paid by all private vehicle users is about £11.5
billion, which is below the lower estimate of conventional costs alone.Adding on
VAT (cyclists also pay VAT on bicycles) can bring this figure to just below £17
billion.

This figure is below the upper estimate of conventional costs, and below
the mid-range of the wider costs which still exclude the costs of intangibles. It
also excludes taxation costs of freight carnage by road which would otherwise be
passed on to consumers.

The amounts paid by motorists, even including the VAT,
come to aboutfl2 to £1 3 billion, only just above the lower estimate for the limited
conventional costs.

This is the best look I've found from Australia. I thank the authors. Anyone with anything else?

https://www.ptua.org.au/myths/petroltax/

Comedian wrote: Anyone with anything else?

I was trying to stay out of this thread.
The required reading is Luke Fraser's The Roads that ate the Australian economy

Luke Fraser wrote:Australia’s current approach to road spending will soon generate up to $20 billion every year in new public sector debt – making it impossible for any new Commonwealth government to benefit from much-needed tax reform and revenue increases. This also cooks the goose of the road freight sector which Australia’s economy relies upon, while the perverse pattern of spending neglects our local road networks thanks to the endless fascination with dubious new motorway mega-projects.

In addition to the actual costs of maintaining roads you need to account for the cost of all that land used by roads and on-road parking; the cost of the (approximately) 1/3rd of hospital beds filled by road trauma victims; the cost of their medical treatment; and the cost of mandated commercial and deemed-essential domestic parking spaces (inevitably garages, often multistory).

These are before you start looking at indirect costs: the lost productivity of accident victims; the opportunity costs of alternate land usage; the costs associated with exhaust, tyre and brake pollution; and the cost of disposal (especially tyres).

Tell me about these "free" roads again?

An illustration of how much space is wasted on cars:





ironically, the first video was an ad for a car, and the 2nd was for uber

To illustrate how much space (and also time is wasted) lets compare bikes and cars to school



You see, with environment that encourages bikes, children can go to school alone and learn independence, less pollution and space. While with cars, you drive the kids to school, waste yor precious time, more pollution, more dependency, and look at the huge space required for it.

opik_bidin wrote:To illustrate how much space (and also time is wasted) lets compare bikes and cars to school



You see, with environment that encourages bikes, children can go to school alone and learn independence, less pollution and space. While with cars, you drive the kids to school, waste yor precious time, more pollution, more dependency, and look at the huge space required for it.

Too much green puts you in a machine.

Sorta counter productive aye?

This shows illustrates how much space is needed for cars, bikes, trams, people. Remember this is From Neterland, so using a typical small european car

https://twitter.com/fietsprofessor/stat ... 3157594112
Cycling Professor @fietsprofessor
The politics of urban mobility have always been and will always be about space.

(graphic by @janduffhues based on numbers of @AmsterdamNL)


Even car companies know this
http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/bmw- ... 29343.html

BMW executives are provided an ebike as an alternative to combat congstion

"We cannot prevent the pending traffic collapse with cars", says CEO

The BMW works council hopes that relief for the Munich city traffic. "We have 40,000 employees in Munich," says Schoch. "If only ten percent of them change their bikes, you could close two parking garages."

To further illustrate how much space is needed, here is a good one. When you have much space, much green, less people who are scattered, you can afford for cars, but as there are more people packed into an area, you can't do that.

Imagine...well see many examples of cities and countries trying to have so more people while still prioritizing cars. The nature are scarred with Roads that cut the environment.

https://twitter.com/fietsprofessor/stat ... 1217572864
Cycling Professor@fietsprofessor
16 Sep 2018
Same city, same scale, only 4 kilometers a part:
Utrecht, center - The City of Bikes
Utrecht, Oudenrijn - Link in the Country of Cars

FWIW, cos this is a cycling board.

The same tweet as above

https://twitter.com/suicide_boi/status/ ... 23682?s=20

https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 7544040451


Urban Planning & Mobility@urbanthoughts11

To those who think that their urban freeway didn’t come at a cost.
Construction of Chicago’s Kennedy Expressway via Fighting Traffic fb


https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 4785499137


https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 5436841984

What we see then is a huge waste of space just for roads, transporting people faraway to a centre, which takes the resources and time of people.
https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 2922783744



Why can't we have a more centralized decentralized? so people live close to a centre where offices, markets, amenities are. why not build the CBD of each suburb, not only shops but also offices so it acts as a magenet to pull people and a net to stop all people coming to the CBD of the main city?
https://twitter.com/urbanthoughts11/sta ... 3563012096
From The Art of Making Places, The Architecture of Community (2009), Léon Krier via @hborys

What cars do, is they push buildings further apart, causing environmental damage as more land is consumed, more forests are cut down, even the sea, river and lakes are reclaimed



To put the cherry on the top, it also act as a barrier, especially if the lanes are 6 or more and the sped limit is 60. Not only humans are affected as they find it hard to cross, animals also have the same problem

a reply when "why don't cyclists just gett off the road"

Hey Opik... I don't know where you keep getting the pictures/video but they are awesome. Keep them coming.

So New York is going to implement congestion charge, other cities in USA are discussing it. Melbourne is also discussing it. How about others?

https://www.wired.com/story/age-of-cong ... icing-nyc/

A solution to your traffic troubles is congestion pricing, which places a surcharge on certain roads at certain times of day. The policy essentially makes roads subject to the market, charging users more when supply is short and demand is high (say, rush hour) and less when there’s lots of supply and not much demand (say, in the middle of the night). You drive it, you buy it.

It is always about geometry and how much can you cram into a space

Lets have PRIVATE car vs PRIVATE bike


Space that cars eat are enormous, and most countries embrace socialism to socialize the cost of owning private cars and it is planted in our mind that cars are a status symbol, that everyone should have a car, that not having a car means you're a lowly person and not worthy in a social perspective. This means as the space needed is greater, the buildings become larger and the distance increases as we need bigger, wider and longer roads. It can also come with a cost of eviction and destruction of important sites

this is the model.


How to test it?

get out of the car. Try to walk and cycle in your area. Try catching bus and trains to go to the shops or services from your home. Is it hard? that means that the environment is hostile to other modes other than cars

Now after space, let's set our eyes on the traffic itself. Lets forget economics, health, and environment. Let's go just for the social aspect