Indoors: Rollers vs wind/mag/fluid trainers

[Ant.]

I crashed and burned during a 20min interval and have done a pathetic MAP which doesn't correspond at all to my repeatable outdoor 20min intervals, despite my awesome fans, it's probably the flywheel with it's epic dead spots at 6 and 12 oclock (maybe I should pedal in circles ). And/or motivation.

I don't intend on using it regularly, but an unfortunate chain of events might see me forced indoors (because I hate skipping training), so I will be laying out some money for some good rollers or a good fluid trainer. (Kreittler rollers vs something cycleops/KK)

The rollers look like a -lot- more fun than fluid trainers, which will address my indoor motivation a bit (lot?) more, both will remove the dead spot so no worries there. I don't like to "switch off" and pedal, so for me, that's not a benefit of a fluid trainer, but can you effectively do 20min/5min/4min intervals on rollers? Or is there any other reason why I should go for the fluid trainer over the rollers?

Hmmm

[Nobody]

Isn't Alex your trainer? Surly Alex's opinion would be worth more than what you get here. I believe Alex thinks the KK Pro is a good thing though.

From what I've read, it might be a good idea to try some rollers before you commit to buying one. Maybe do on interval until you're about to vomit then see how your balance is on the rollers. I know I've once had trouble balancing on the road when trying not to vomit.

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Isn't Alex your trainer?

I don't coach Ant.

From what I've read, it might be a good idea to try some rollers before you commit to buying one. Maybe do on interval until you're about to vomit then see how your balance is on the rollers. I know I've once had trouble balancing on the road when trying not to vomit.

This would be my concern. The good thing about a trainer is being able to bang out the effort and not be concerned about safety. But up to a VO2 max type effort, you should still be in control of the bike. It's when you start doing anaerobic efforts it gets hairy.

I'd say the KK is a good option, I've had several clients use them and love 'em.
Going one step further might be a dedicated ergo, like a PT 300. Large flywheel with built in powertap.

[moosterbounce]

2 words Ant...Tacx Fortius.

Give Steve's a go if it is still set up in the shop. I did...then bought one

[Andrew69]

Kurt Kinetic pro user and big fan here.
Cant recommend it enough.
Spend the extra and get the pro with the big flywheel. No dead spots on this bad boy!
I used to have hip flexor problems galore with a cheapy mag trainer. Never had a problem with the KK.

[Ant.]

Isn't Alex your trainer?

I don't coach Ant.

From what I've read, it might be a good idea to try some rollers before you commit to buying one. Maybe do on interval until you're about to vomit then see how your balance is on the rollers. I know I've once had trouble balancing on the road when trying not to vomit.

This would be my concern. The good thing about a trainer is being able to bang out the effort and not be concerned about safety. But up to a VO2 max type effort, you should still be in control of the bike. It's when you start doing anaerobic efforts it gets hairy.

I'd say the KK is a good option, I've had several clients use them and love 'em.
Going one step further might be a dedicated ergo, like a PT 300. Large flywheel with built in powertap.

I can't justify a dedicated ergo, not living in Perth anyway! (but for some reason I could justify this sub9 powertap disc laying here??) I hope to only go indoors when it's wet, windy, and my program is marked TTI/API. (My interval training places require corners; 280/320W, a gusty wind and a wet road... ain't nothing like sliding down a ravine (giro style!) to ruin a good TTI )
I might accidentally need to do a MIET (heavy tempo for the non RST'ers) or two indoors if daylight escapes me, but for the next 3 months, I'm only at uni for 6 weeks, so that should never happen. This is really just for emergency use only (and warming up before a TT/RR). MAP testing can be done on my mate's whatever computer autobraked thingy he has, but I can't unexpectantly turn up in lycra and demand interval sessions from him.
I just don't think I can cope with the mind numbing features of a regular trainer. Although I won't know this for sure until I have a good trainer.

Indoors Not sure how you handle it Alex!

[Ant.]

Isn't Alex your trainer? Surly Alex's opinion would be worth more than what you get here. I believe Alex thinks the KK Pro is a good thing though.

From what I've read, it might be a good idea to try some rollers before you commit to buying one. Maybe do on interval until you're about to vomit then see how your balance is on the rollers. I know I've once had trouble balancing on the road when trying not to vomit.

As stated, Alex isn't my coach (but I am coached by RST). I'm sure Ric, being a UK'er has plenty of experience with training indoors though. I have asked him, but is worth probing the minds of others.

Well, I'm never in any real danger of crashing during a 4min interval on the road... is it likely to be different on rollers? I don't really do anaerobic efforts, and most certainly wouldn't do them on the rollers, so I'm still wondering whether I'd have a problem or not. The amount of times I hope to use said indoor trainer is 0, but will likely end up being once a month until winter goes away.
I'm getting the impression that rollers won't have the mind-numbing element to them. And as long as balance isn't an issue for 4min intervals, I'm sold.

[Ant.]

2 words Ant...Tacx Fortius.

Give Steve's a go if it is still set up in the shop. I did...then bought one

This thread is really just me looking for permission to get rollers

As an aside: have we met? Do you do the shop rides/TTs/sportifs/RRs/wear ERC kit?

Kurt Kinetic pro user and big fan here.
Cant recommend it enough.
Spend the extra and get the pro with the big flywheel. No dead spots on this bad boy!
I used to have hip flexor problems galore with a cheapy mag trainer. Never had a problem with the KK.

Maybe. Cheapy mag trainer is what I have now. No hip flexor problems, just the fact I can't get the same sustained wattage happening, and since I need very few excuses to quit an indoor session, that's usually what happens.

[Nobody]

Well, I'm never in any real danger of crashing during a 4min interval on the road... is it likely to be different on rollers?

Although I haven't used rollers myself, by watching people on them I can see they are obviously less stable than the road. I think you'll need to try them for yourself. Only one way to know for sure.

[moosterbounce]

2 words Ant...Tacx Fortius.

Give Steve's a go if it is still set up in the shop. I did...then bought one

This thread is really just me looking for permission to get rollers

As an aside: have we met? Do you do the shop rides/TTs/sportifs/RRs/wear ERC kit?

Sorry Ant...you are going to have to put in small print what you would like us to answer

Yes, you need rollers. And a trainer. And a new bike. And some new kit. (did that cover it? )

I don't think we've met. I don't do any shop rides as Saturday mornings are out for me, nor sportifs etc. I'm a loner (oh yeah, with Mr Moo too ). I don't wear ERC kit but am thinking about it - need to get the idea of a non-bike-matching kit in my head first - such a girl!! I was in ERC last Saturday arvo though...got me a new SMP saddle...

[Alex Simmons/RST]

How about some "e-motion" rollers?

[CoffsGal]

How about some "e-motion" rollers?

It has been raining here for the last 5 days and I have been using my home made 'e-motion rollers' every day...excellent workout with realistic road ride feel...definitely recommended...

Emma

[Ant.]

Interesting concept.

Does it come with a guarantee that I won't look like an idiot with training wheels, while using them to warmup for a TT/road race?

[Alex Simmons/RST]

See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaYDZ-RSOTA

[Nobody]

How about some "e-motion" rollers?

http://www.insideride.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=36

Interesting. More than $800US by the time you add delivery. Then you could throw away the mag unit and graft the Tacx Fortius to it. So for about $2.5 - 3K you could have a very interesting setup. Maybe the VR rollers of the future?

[Nobody]

Here is a review from a person with both the KK Road Machine and the E-motion rollers:

Summary:
This is a great product: surprisingly simple, fluid and smooth. It feels natural because it replicates riding on level road conditions. The progressive floating action of the rail return mechanism absorbs all sudden and intense power changes and the bumper system keeps me on track. The magnetic resistance feature essentially rounds out the product offering because you dial it in before you get on the bike, and you can pre-determine the gear range for your particular work-out.
So if I want to go long and light, I'll set the resistance to 1/4 stop. After a warm-up, I'll spin comfortably in middle gear at 90-105 rpm, 200-250W on the SRM and I can jump up out of the saddle and sprint to 500W every now and then, to stretch out a bit. Or I can set the magnet to the 3/4 stop, warm up in low gear, and then switch to a big gear and grind out 50-80 rpm, 280-350W to simulate a long climb. Again, you can get right out of the saddle and swing the bike from side to side.
No matter what workout you do, because you are on rollers, you have to pay attention and this develops another great skill - being able to track in a really straight line. I really notice the difference when ride on the road - I am much less twitchy than before and can hold the wheel in front of me with greater concentration.

Strengths:
Among the top and most versatile pieces of training equipment I use. Very, very pro and it will make you a better rider. Quiet, hard wearing, excellent machining and assembly, simple to clean and maintain. Excellent value.

Weaknesses:
The weaknesses are more mine than the device. You have to pay attention! Keep at least one solid object (workbench, door frame) close at hand because you will inevitably fall over at some point.

Similar Products Used:
Kurt Kinetic Road Machine Trainer. I had this first & am still very pleased with it. I switch between devices, depending on the type of workout I want.

From http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/train ... px#reviews

[topaz]

Slight Hijack - In terms of rollers whats better - Plastic or Aluminium?

[Hebden]

Just want to say I had a go on some rollers. What a hoot! They were plastic and about 35cm wide and slightly curved up at the ends if you know what I mean. I just borrowed them from the LBS. I have only had one go so far so can't comment on durability, but they weren’t overly noisy and felt pretty solid to me.

Started out in a door way for a few mins until I worked out you gota ride fast. Big Chain ring and keep the cadence up. Then out to the lounge room with the couch strategically placed next to me to enjoy 3 episodes of Star Trek (sweeeet ). I ended up on the couch twice , once while trying to take a drink and again when I too casually tried to wipe sweat from my forehead. I was able to take a drink while riding by the end of the session but I needed to concentrate pretty bloody hard.

I was tossing up between a Wind Trainer and Rollers, I haven’t tried a WT yet, but I like the rollers a lot. No good for power, but great for longer steady efforts of un-interrupted concentrated riding. I imagine a WT would be more like riding an exercise bike i.e. just pushing the pedals. I got lots of hills outside if I want to build some strength. I think Rollers are for me.

[mikesbytes]

Slight Hijack - In terms of rollers whats better - Plastic or Aluminium?

Aluminium

[Hebden]

Slight Hijack - In terms of rollers whats better - Plastic or Aluminium?

Aluminium

Whys that Mike? Wear? Are they more quite?

[Jeremy]

Plastic ones are prone to warp....especially if you leave them in the sun

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Plastic ones are prone to warp....especially if you leave them in the sun

I have a set of plastic ones, have had them for many years and they are just fine. Very solid acually. Largish drums and give quite a good range of resistance, much more than the large metal drums do. I find the large metal ones are OK for an easy spin at the track between efforts but if I was going to do some sensible training at intensity, I'd go for something with more resistance.

[Ant.]

Problem solved: Keeping with the theme of specificity, I sold my mag trainer and bought a gilet, waterproof booties and a rain jacket

[snedden9485]

So if you were making a set of DIY motion rollers eg Coffs Gals set with 80mm aluminium rollers, what sort of watts could you expect to get from them. I have a KK road machine at the moment on loan and its nice, but i think the rollers would be better for technique etc. Would making a set of rollers as mentioned be any good for doing intervals eg 10 min (AT) 90 - 95% HRM or should i stick with the KK?

[Nobody]

So if you were making a set of DIY motion rollers eg Coffs Gals set with 80mm aluminium rollers, what sort of watts could you expect to get from them. I have a KK road machine at the moment on loan and its nice, but i think the rollers would be better for technique etc. Would making a set of rollers as mentioned be any good for doing intervals eg 10 min (AT) 90 - 95% HRM or should i stick with the KK?

I believe you'll need some kind of resistance unit to do intervals. I don't think CoffsGal's rollers have a resistance until. The E-motion rollers do have a mag unit, but are over $1K AUD. Maybe you could make a CoffsGal version for about $400, then get a secondhand mag unit off Ebay and somehow graft it on. Then you could post an article here and show us how it's done.

Also if you do decide to buy a KK Road Machine, make sure you grease the threaded rod as I've read this is the place they wear out after years of use.