Smart trainers and software

[g-boaf]

Don't like saddles with cutouts and cant find a short nose with a narrower nose without a cutout

Specialized power arc?

Thanks.
Looks ok but still has a cutout.
Do specialised bike shops let you try out the saddle before purchase? I have heard someone does.

The local one closest to me gets you to buy but if it doesn’t work out just bring it back with original packaging in unblemished condition and they will just keep swapping the saddles until you find the right one. That’s great.

I’m on a Specialized Power saddle at the moment. It seems to be okay.

[warthog1]

The local one closest to me gets you to buy but if it doesn’t work out just bring it back with original packaging in unblemished condition and they will just keep swapping the saddles until you find the right one. That’s great.

I’m on a Specialized Power saddle at the moment. It seems to be okay.

Thanks

[jasonc]

Vacmaster fan turned up yesterday. It's a definite improvement over a floor fan

[g-boaf]

I did 30 minutes on Fulgaz. It is nice to ride without having the software interfering with your speed and effort.

[Mr Purple]

I did 30 minutes on Fulgaz. It is nice to ride without having the software interfering with your speed and effort.

Yes, it is good to have an average speed actually determined by your effort, not just the size of the group you're in. I should probably compose that e-mail to Fulgaz explaining why I've left - I see the challenges are still being dominated by the same pair of morons on dumb trainers.

Coming back after minor surgery and back on Zwift this week with the pacers. The 'C' pacer is manageable, the 'B' is just stupid. Turns out 3.7W/kg with 75kg is pretty hard to keep pace with downhill when you yourself weigh 61kg.

Was expecting my race ranking to slip with a few weeks off but it's gone up. 86th overall in Australia (34th in A) and almost in the top 1000 overall now. Probably a couple of weeks before I can improve it though.

[g-boaf]

I did 30 minutes on Fulgaz. It is nice to ride without having the software interfering with your speed and effort.

Yes, it is good to have an average speed actually determined by your effort, not just the size of the group you're in. I should probably compose that e-mail to Fulgaz explaining why I've left - I see the challenges are still being dominated by the same pair of morons on dumb trainers.

Coming back after minor surgery and back on Zwift this week with the pacers. The 'C' pacer is manageable, the 'B' is just stupid. Turns out 3.7W/kg with 75kg is pretty hard to keep pace with downhill when you yourself weigh 61kg.

Was expecting my race ranking to slip with a few weeks off but it's gone up. 86th overall in Australia (34th in A) and almost in the top 1000 overall now. Probably a couple of weeks before I can improve it though.

Do you know what they suggest to solve that pace problem? Just "check your ego" and ride with slower "D" grade robopacers. I kid you not!

The top female rider in Zwift (who is an absolute machine) has put in a request for lighter robopacers. I doubt even with her influence (she had her own celebration event with 300,000km printed on the road in game) that it will happen.

The troubles now in Zwift are the steering modifications and pace dynamics 5 which are messing with steering and parking you behind slower riders even when you are putting accelerations to go past them. Unfortunately certain folks are pretty vocal in supporting those changes because they supposedly slow the packs down.

I haven't seen any evidence of slower groups, before I got sick I rode with the Constance group and the speeds were as fast as ever, there were the same usual strong riders there, one South American, another from France who has the real world results against his name on big stage races, so they are genuine.

With 210w average there is no way on triple flat loop type course IRL I should be doing 42km/h average speed. Maybe with no stops and no sharp corners and a group I might get 38km/h average? Yes I am light but they shouldn't be going that quickly and no should "2.5W" Coco group be going 38-39km/h. It should be more like 32km/h average.

The trick to being able to "monster" the robopacer groups are these:

1. hold a very steady power without any dips
2. stay at the front where the braking/blocking effects are less
3. When you are at the front, punch higher w/kg than the robopacer to tow it along faster so your fellow riders will enjoy more of a workout (actually they don't, and they sometimes get quite cranky about it)
4. Control your trainer power in ERG mode with 300w for a couple of hours (which always speeds up the group)

Sarcasm aside, the first point is key because if you are light, your power is already less than the robopacer and other riders so if you let off the power or coast for a moment or two you'll get slowed down to whatever speed someone in front of you is doing, if there are a few going a bit easier ahead of you, you'll get parked behind them and the main group ahead will ride away.

[Mr Purple]

‘D’ pacer is too slow, especially uphill. ‘c’ is about right.

Anything above I might as well join an ‘A’grade race, it’s easier.

Seriously, I’m almost at 4W/kg just to keep with the ‘B’ pacer now. Hate to think what it takes for ‘A’.

[g-boaf]

How smooth is your power?

Also what bike are you using in Zwift? Some are faster than others - and some are bricks.

What does your average power look like on a ride to stay with "C" or "B", that is, the 30 or 60 minute average.

With "A" my average is usually around 3.8 to 3.9w/kg. Sometimes I'll have 5 minutes that is higher (say 4.5w/kg).

[Mr Purple]

How smooth is your power?

Also what bike are you using in Zwift? Some are faster than others - and some are bricks.

What does your average power look like on a ride to stay with "C" or "B", that is, the 30 or 60 minute average.

With "A" my average is usually around 3.8 to 3.9w/kg. Sometimes I'll have 5 minutes that is higher (say 4.5w/kg).

The Tron, generally. Works out best on most courses and I don't have to change it that much.

Turns out I lie - checking my numbers my average 'B' ride is 3.16W/kg NP or thereabouts, and I managed 3.04W/kg this morning on a 'C' pacer ride anyway - though I was making it my job (and succeeded) of simultaneously holding the 3 sprint and 1 KOM jerseys on that course.

'B' certainly feels a lot more unpleasant though. I think it's the fact that you can't ever back off, and if you're dropped you're gone. It's pretty demotivating - particularly to have to stand on the pedals to catch up on the descents.

[g-boaf]

The best now is the Pinarello (the new one).

Although the Canyon Aeroad 2024 isn’t bad.

I guess I’ll be seeing you soon in C group huffing and puffing and with way too high heart rate. This cold or whatever it is, I’m climbing the walls.

[Mr Purple]

I guess I’ll be seeing you soon in C group huffing and puffing and with way too high heart rate. This cold or whatever it is, I’m climbing the walls.

I'm not sure how long I'll last in 'C' it's pretty boring!

Another 40km with the 'C' pacer on Triple loops this morning. I forgot how much the endless natter annoys me - particularly the people talking about knocking another 220km off the Rapha Festive 500 sitting in behind the pacerbot at 3W/kg for 40km/hr.

Pretty sure I could knock the Festive 500 off in a day in that situation. But it would be completely undeserved, and boring as all get out. Say it after me people, 'Zwift kilometres are not real!'

Hope to get the gravel bike out this afternoon, seem to be recovering quite well.

[warthog1]

I guess I’ll be seeing you soon in C group huffing and puffing and with way too high heart rate. This cold or whatever it is, I’m climbing the walls.

I'm not sure how long I'll last in 'C' it's pretty boring!

Another 40km with the 'C' pacer on Triple loops this morning. I forgot how much the endless natter annoys me - particularly the people talking about knocking another 220km off the Rapha Festive 500 sitting in behind the pacerbot at 3W/kg for 40km/hr.

Pretty sure I could knock the Festive 500 off in a day in that situation. But it would be completely undeserved, and boring as all get out. Say it after me people, 'Zwift kilometres are not real!'

Hope to get the gravel bike out this afternoon, seem to be recovering quite well.

Zwift kms are not, in any way, shape or form, real.

[g-boaf]

It’s easy to say you could smash out 500km on Zwift with the robopacer groups, but I know a few people who have done it, both of them very fit riders, they were destroyed at the end of it. One felt sick and didn’t feel like eating, the other was in all sorts of pain and exhausted (he was young and extremely fit). Maybe both of you try it first…

The biggest ride I’ve done on Zwift was a ride on Innsbruck world with 3500m+ and it was absolutely brutal. The week before I did the same elevation on ADZ but with shorter distance, slightly easier.

It takes a lot out of you and I can say that the same elevation gain in real life, even with high altitudes going up to 2600-2800m+ is easier and a lot less painful, especially because you can coast a lot more easily (which is prevented in Zwift).

The challenge, for whoever wants to try it is a basecamp on Zwift, then submit it and get it certified.

[warthog1]

Nonsense. Climbing on Zwift in front of your fan is significantly easier. Sipping away on your drinks. No sun, no heat, no cold, no wind, no cars.
Horizontal metres and vertical metres are significantly easier physically. They always take less time.
What a plastic experience it is
What is harder is the sheer, mind numbing, boredom.
Give me real bitumen and real sights and sounds anyday. I don't care that the elevation and distance comes harder. At least the experience is real, not synthetic.

[g-boaf]

I’m not going to dispute, you probably have more experience than me with mountainous rides IRL and in Zwift.

But in my experience Zwift rides are more physically painful than outside rides which I always do more easily because I’m moving about on the bike more, not always in the one position.

Col de Vars and Bonette I’ve ridden IRL same ride, but in Ful Gaz it’s much harder - I’m less comfortable on the trainer so I wouldn’t do them one after the other. Just my experience anyhow and doesn't mean much, we have differing thoughts and that's how it will be.

[warthog1]

I find them painful too. Uncomfortable and boring.
For a set measure of time, the distance and elevation are always more generous on Zwift. Sometimes significantly so.
Still, it is safe and better than not riding.

[Tim]

^^^
What are you doing wide awake at this unearthly hour?
I thought you thought the sun rises at 9.17am this time of year.
Anyhow, I'm about 15 minutes away from an outdoors spin.
My trainer hasn't seen the light of day for about 2 years now.
The thing is, I don't train anymore. I just ride my bike coz I like to.

[warthog1]

^^^
What are you doing wide awake at this unearthly hour?
I thought you thought the sun rises at 9.17am this time of year.
Anyhow, I'm about 15 minutes away from an outdoors spin.
My trainer hasn't seen the light of day for about 2 years now.
The thing is, I don't train anymore. I just ride my bike coz I like to.

A sh itty night at work.
Yeah, pretty hard to seriously train when times are getting slower not faster. I still enjoy it too. It is mental health for me. My approximation of mindfulness or meditation.

[Mr Purple]

It’s easy to say you could smash out 500km on Zwift with the robopacer groups, but I know a few people who have done it, both of them very fit riders, they were destroyed at the end of it. One felt sick and didn’t feel like eating, the other was in all sorts of pain and exhausted (he was young and extremely fit). Maybe both of you try it first…

500km on Zwift is still a lot, but on a flat course with the 'C' robopacer I'd estimate it's the equivalent of 250-300km in the real world.

I once did a 111km/1900m Zwift race. It hurt. Made even worse by the fact half the field took off at 5W/kg, established a few kilometre lead and then quit at around 40km. Typical Zwift.

[g-boaf]

I once did a 111km/1900m Zwift race. It hurt. Made even worse by the fact half the field took off at 5W/kg, established a few kilometre lead and then quit at around 40km. Typical Zwift.

It's a wonder there are any 111km races with 1900m elevation gain, there are usually boycotts of such events. The "tiny races" are the preferred option with flattest courses.

I did get on Zwift today doing one of the Rapha rides. My legs seemed to have power but my heart rate was really high, as expected. I kept the effort low because I'm still not properly recovered.

[Mr Purple]

First Zwift race back after surgery today.

Thought I had them covered - I had the highest Zwiftpower W/kg in 'A' by a fair margin and it was a reasonably hilly course. Only 14km though.

Cue the 'Zwift powerups aren't really random' discovery. See what you really want when you're trying to make a break is four 'drafting' powerups in a row. When your two immediate opponents get a 'feather' and 'aero' for the final 600m climb.

Still came second, but couldn't quite catch the guy who won despite averaging just under 10W/kg for the final minute.

I suspect there's a lot more gamification programmed into the racing than Zwift admits.

[davehirst]

Mr p, sounds like the gamers do you a favour, who else will push you so hard.

[g-boaf]

Still a bit crook but getting better. I haven’t gone outside on a bike yet and won’t until I’m totally recovered- but have done 2x ADZ so far this year.

Both laps low 50 minute times. But heart rate way up at 165-175bpm…

So I’m over 160 laps of ADZ. My Zwift group are suggesting I should do a 365x ADZ like they did in 2020 I think it was. I’m not so sure. They got famous from it, in all the cycling magazines.

I like to change my training up from time to time.

[Mr Purple]

Mr p, sounds like the gamers do you a favour, who else will push you so hard.

This is absolutely true and the reason I'm doing it. It works well as motivation.

Hit 10.21W/kg for 60 seconds in the real world today; an all time PB. I credit the Zwift racing. First time I've ever hit 100th percentile on any of the power metrics.

[g-boaf]

3x ADZ so far this year.

I've been staying away from any group rides on Zwift, they are just a wrecked by the new steering behaviour and pace dynamics. Also not helped in the faster groups by "heroes" trying to speed up the group by riding off the front at 5w/kg+ and deliberately staying there. A few of the normal riders ask them politely to not do that but it keeps happening.

Usually it's someone at sub 150cm height and 40kg weight. ADZ has its problems with 50yo guys going up the climb at 7w/kg and 500w, but at least they don't mess up the pacing of others.