the Crazy eDevice rider thread

[uart]

Unfortunately, don’t hold your breath waiting for it. The “community outrage factor” is not yet high enoughless to self and society.

It will probably take the death of a kid (not the rider) being struck on shared path before they take it seriously, but eventually it's bound to happen.

[Mr Purple]

escooter pulled out in front of me, whilst travelling along the bicentennial. he then says "watch where you're going". yeah. sure

Just a reminder today that you are never allowed to react even slightly to these morons.

Almost hit by a loser on a high powered e-scooter coming around a blind corner on the wrong side of the Bicentennial in the casino section (20km/hr) doing 50km/hr+ today.

Instinctively yelled 'slow down'. These brain dead moron then did a u-turn and chased me down (I was doing the marked 20km/hr) to scream about me going faster than he was and he was going to punch my face in.

Two points - even if I was going faster than him (I wasn't) I was actually on the correct side of the path. Secondly I'm pretty sure to do a u-turn and chase someone down you have to go faster than they are.

Fortunately there was a whole bunch of cyclists going the same way and he wasn't going to actually act on his threat. But the combination of stupidity, self righteousness and poor decision making is a dangerous one, and very common out there. Stay safe.

[jasonc]

99% sure it's the same kid as last week that did the mono past the 5 year old

[Andy01]

The only consolation with these people is that invariably they get to win the Darwin award at some point - it is only a matter of time.

[elantra]

99% sure it's the same kid as last week that did the mono past the 5 year old

FFFS that is just nuts !

What a galah.

Unfortunately there will probably be a boatload of things like this under Christmas trees all over Australia in 10 days time.

[Lukeyboy]

vic road rules for escooters:
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/electric- ... e-scooters

I think I've seen people using e-scooters while simultaneously doing all (or almost all) of the above, and enforcement of that rule is almost non-existent, because there aren't enough police officers to do it, because obviously they have many more severe infringements/crimes to address.

and as I've been saying all along, enforcement is the problem.

Enforcement is not the problem. That's the mindset that has been drilled into the public now to distract them/give them something to blame instead of the actual problem. Should we bring back blitzes on bells on bikes?? How about enforcing the 10kph speed limit in southbank, roma street or other infrastructure such as the 20kph speed limit on the western freeway bikeway??? (all areas that Jason and many others break the law doing every day). The Government and society in general is the problem. By having a voters mindset the government panders to what will keep them in power which usually comes at the expense of active and public transport users. Proper laws, legislation, planning and infrastructure regarding active and public transport is the problem that prevents the uptake in these methods of travel. Look at the Bruce Highway gympie bypass. It shadows the railway line and funding for duplication/realignment for the slower sections of track has been removed since the late 90's.

The laws were a swift counter reaction to shift the onus of the problem from the state to make it look like the government was doing something but putting the onus on the local councils to provide the new infrastructure.

The police shouldn't have to be enforcing 1-1.5m laws or whether a scooter was doing 28kph on a downhill. Nor should we be asking why the new Kangaroo Point bridge over the Brisbane river doesn't meet BCC's/the states own regulations or bikeway speed bumps that aren't legally compliant (which is why contractors were grinding them down last week). But hey here we are.

Operation Zappo Stoppie is targeting electric motorcycles and non-compliant e-bicycles, but not e-scooters.

I don't see why e-scooters are exempted?

Yeah it seems strange, given that over speed and over powered e-scooters are apparently a significant problem there. My guess is that (given what some Qld members here have said) their stupid laws around e-scooters are too weak to make it feasible. Apparently the police there can do nothing about over powered scooters unless they catch them in the act and can prove that they're speeding. So you can be on a scooter that is capable of 90 km/hr, but unless the police can catch you in that act there's nothing they can do.

E-bikes laws seem to be different, and it's enough to just catch them being on an electric motorbike in a public space and they can act on it, no need for them to be breaking any other laws at the time.

No different than driving a Ferrari or Ducatti on the road. Both vehicles can do 300kph+. The reason for not including escooters is due to legal wording and the police area investigating. For example you don't have vehicle inspectors investigating homicides. This would have been the newly renamed highway patrol officers/transport officers investigating who know their stuff and are harder to play the "I didn't know" game with.

……. <snip>
Time to see some serious negligent or reckless driving charges leveled against anyone speeding on a motorcycle (petrol or electric) on bike or shared paths. Let the penalties reflect the risks.

Unfortunately, don’t hold your breath waiting for it. The “community outrage factor” is not yet high enough for the bureacats to divert Police resources onto this emerging crisis.
Which is an unfortunate paradox because when the “pressure” becomes greater it will be too late…

Those mono stunts must be the latest trend in juvenile social behaviour because you see the little perpetrators doing it all the time.
It’s become an obsession.
50 years ago when I was a kid the obsession was getting your skills up on using a Yo-Yo. A lot more harmless to self and society.
And cheaper for the parents too.

Nonsense. Kids have been doing this for ages. I still jump jump off the Boondall wetlands bridge on 404's and do wheelies when I like regardless of what bike I am on. Pretty sure I also rode a citycycle down a staircase a couple times but maybe I might be an exception??

[Mr Purple]

Enforcement is not the problem. That's the mindset that has been drilled into the public now to distract them/give them something to blame instead of the actual problem. Should we bring back blitzes on bells on bikes?? How about enforcing the 10kph speed limit in southbank, roma street or other infrastructure such as the 20kph speed limit on the western freeway bikeway??? (all areas that Jason and many others break the law doing every day).

I agree with you in that the police should not need the extra responsibility of having to enforce e-device speed limits.

The restrictions clearly need to be at the point of importation and sale. Why can mainstream retailers openly sell e-scooters (in particular) with 5-6kW of power capable of over 90km/hr? This whole 'for off road use only' is clearly a thinly veiled attempt at legitimacy because only a very small proportion of them would actually be used for that purpose.

Where did you get the idea that there's a 20km/hr speed limit on the Western Freeway Bikeway? I can't find any reference to it, and am fairly sure it's the same speed limit as the freeway.

The only areas with a 20km/hr limit around Brisbane I can recall are the Go-Between and Kurilpa bridges, the Howard Smith Wharves and the Bicentennial Bikeway gambling and drinking areas.

Ultimately the problem isn't the devices themselves, but the antisocial behaviour of some of their users. Mind you some cyclists also aren't above this, nor pedestrians. They're just not quite as dangerous because they don't quite have so much momentum.

[Lukeyboy]

Ummm…. Because there are multiple signs on the bikeway at Darra and richlands that has 20kph on it
https://maps.app.goo.gl/Kx1jHDBvmZ4V8bsU7

Southbank is 10kph. Victoria bridge is the start end point and there are multiple speed signs from the woolloongabba bikeway/goodwill bridge to the start of the shared pathway. You have 20/10/15kph zones. All legally enforceable.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/5x24zVfyxBCawQWP7
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1HjMXGs8RCUuq7UB8

The bridges have speed limits of 10-15kph. Roma street parklands is a shared zone of 10kph and 20kph on the downhill ramp.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/kKGSsqgtb6NLsHvM9

The bicentennial bikeway has 10kph signs around QUT end and now the casino area. So if you use the road it’s 10kph or if you are on the pathway it’s 10kph. Nothing stopping police from dishing out $400+ fines to cyclists if they wanted to under the disguise of safety. Which we saw when QPS gave out speeding fines on the scaffolding bridge for cyclists exceeding 10kph a few months back.

[elantra]

……. <snip>
Time to see some serious negligent or reckless driving charges leveled against anyone speeding on a motorcycle (petrol or electric) on bike or shared paths. Let the penalties reflect the risks.

Unfortunately, don’t hold your breath waiting for it. The “community outrage factor” is not yet high enough for the bureacats to divert Police resources onto this emerging crisis.
Which is an unfortunate paradox because when the “pressure” becomes greater it will be too late…

Those mono stunts must be the latest trend in juvenile social behaviour because you see the little perpetrators doing it all the time.
It’s become an obsession.
50 years ago when I was a kid the obsession was getting your skills up on using a Yo-Yo. A lot more harmless to self and society.
And cheaper for the parents too.

Nonsense. Kids have been doing this for ages. I still jump jump off the Boondall wetlands bridge on 404's and do wheelies when I like regardless of what bike I am on. Pretty sure I also rode a citycycle down a staircase a couple times but maybe I might be an exception??

Yes kids, teenagers, young adults have been using wheeled objects to do dumb things for more than a hundred years but that doesn’t mean we should just ignore it….

We need to remember the Laws of Physics :

Kinetic Energy is directly proportional to the Mass of an object multiplied by its Velocity SQUARED.
50 years ago, 12 year old kids were doing dumb things on their trendy dragster bikes.
The bike is only 15 kg and on level ground would have a maximum velocity of little more than 30 km/hr.
A powerful e-bike probably weighs 45 kg and has a maximum velocity of 60 km/hr.
A quick calculation reveals that if that hits something at that speed it will have approx 12 times as much destructive power (energy dissipation) as a kid on a 1970’s dragster bicycle.
That could be the difference between a bit of a bruise (dragster crashes into something) and a lot of broken bones plus life-threatening injuries (e-bike crashes into something)

And there’s more to the problem than just destructive potential - the kids on dragster bicycles didn’t venture far from home because it was energy sapping to do tricks and stunts on them - but the battery powered devices can take their pilots much further afield to many more places.

Our concerns are primarily health and safety - yes the health and safety of people like us who have been using bicycles for a long time with relative safety. We are concerned not only about the risk to ourselves but also the risk to Pedestrians - they are humans too.
And we don’t want to see the kids on e-bikes get hurt either.
And yes we talk about Law Enforcement but that is only a means to an end - Safety !

[warthog1]

99% sure it's the same kid as last week that did the mono past the 5 year old

Dunno where this is or if speed limits apply, but I'm tipping not many leg powered cyclists are doing that, particularly past 5 yr olds.

[elantra]

……..
Just a reminder today that you are never allowed to react even slightly to these morons.

Almost hit by a loser on a high powered e-scooter coming around a blind corner on the wrong side of the Bicentennial in the casino section (20km/hr) doing 50km/hr+ today.

Instinctively yelled 'slow down'. These brain dead moron then did a u-turn and chased me down (I was doing the marked 20km/hr) to scream about me going faster than he was and he was going to punch my face in.

Two points - even if I was going faster than him (I wasn't) I was actually on the correct side of the path. Secondly I'm pretty sure to do a u-turn and chase someone down you have to go faster than they are.

Fortunately there was a whole bunch of cyclists going the same way and he wasn't going to actually act on his threat. But the combination of stupidity, self righteousness and poor decision making is a dangerous one, and very common out there. Stay safe.

Might be a bit of a Christmas season effect as well.

Must be a lot of drugs under the Christmas trees this year. Making people go ape-sugar crazy out there.

Yesterday I was driving along a suburban street and slowed for a lights flashing 40km/hr school zone.
Admittedly and fortunately it was almost 4pm so there was almost nil vehicular and pedestrian activity but it’s what most people would consider normal reasonable behaviour to more or less comply with the school zone speed limit.
But not to the driver behind me.
Possibly he waited till the end of the school zone possibly not but even if it was now a fair dinkum 50 km/hr speed limit he then accelerated rapidly, went to the wrong side of road, and overtook my vehicle.
A few hundred metres further along the road he pulled off.
I thought to myself, “what a knob, driving like that for the sake of going only a few hundred meters”

But as I passed by this vehicle I made the mistake of looking at it.
This didn’t go down well because the next thing I knew it was behind me again !
And overtook me again at high speed.
I turned off at the next intersection.

Later I was recounting this experience with a local resident who said “ drugs, this area is awash with drugs”

[redsonic]

Sounds like a total meth head.
If you were in QLD, we are on school holidays now, so the 40kph sign may have been wrong.

[Mr Purple]

Later I was recounting this experience with a local resident who said “ drugs, this area is awash with drugs”

Yes, this is the conclusion I came to as well.

So this fairly unkempt, overweight full faced helmet individual crossed to the wrong side of the road on a blind corner in a 20 zone doing 40km/hr+ on a device meant to be limited to 25km/hr, and almost took out me, the cyclist.

And his natural reaction when I said 'Slow down' was to turn and chase me down and threaten to 'punch my 'f-ing head in'? That guy is either a sociopath and a deadset moron, or on ice. I suspect he was high on something.

I've noticed the same in traffic. Absolute idiots tailgating in heavy traffic and randomly changing lanes, cutting people off to arrive at the next intersection all of one car ahead of where they would have been if they'd stayed in the same lane. I enjoy just driving in the left hand lane, leaving a good stopping distance, and driving completely safely and normally, only to end up five cars ahead of them anyway.

I occasionally pass someone driving erratically in traffic and you can see them banging on the wheel in frustration, jerking their head randomly or just otherwise looking like they're high on something. I think methamphetamine is a big issue.

[elantra]

Sounds like a total meth head.
If you were in QLD, we are on school holidays now, so the 40kph sign may have been wrong.

New South Wales, I think the Primary Schools are still mostly attended this week.
But was only 10 km from the Queensland border on the Numinbah Road.

In the old days this road was a very popular “hard ride” route for Roadies, the classic Robbie’s Gold Coast big loop, including up and over Springers (Springbrook) and back via Terranora (usually)

These days it’s no longer as popular with Road cyclists, probably many reasons but mostly it’s just too scary dangerous due to undisciplined motor vehicles, including heaps of big motorbikes on the weekends.

[jasonc]

https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/ ... EAD%20MORE

Shock horror. They aren't active transport

[Anrai]

https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/ ... EAD%20MORE

Shock horror. They aren't active transport

Maybe getting off-topic but in my 8 months getting serious about exercise I've quickly reached a point where in terms of energy expenditure walking is trivial. A couple weeks ago I did another helmet in, and while I waited for a new one I found that a two and a half hour walk (centred on a 350m climb) just about held my Strava graph steady for the day. An uphill walk home from the shops loaded with groceries barely registers.
What walking does do for me is provide repetitive joint load, in a way that most of my time on a bike (or I assume an e-scooter) doesn't.

Not a Crazy eDevice Rider, as they appeared to be of-age, helmeted, and following speed limits but I saw a boy on an e-scooter today, and I'm noting it at all because his mate was on a $5k Trek dual-suspension mountain bike and it seemed like a bit of a capability discrepancy between that and the very urban-oriented scooter which didn't seem to have any suspension at all. A Modern Hell of being limited to riding around below 15km/h on footpaths because your friend has an e-scooter instead of a bike.

[Lukeyboy]

https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/ ... EAD%20MORE

Shock horror. They aren't active transport

Shock horror its not really of any substance.

"We acknowledge the limitations of our study."

"There are several external factors that may influence the physical activity level that are difficult to control. In our study, the trials were conducted on a university campus during the summer when traffic was light, and the temperature was comfortable for riding."

"For policy goals to improve physical activity, efforts should be made to grow e-scooters as a substitute for driving or ride-hailing without replacing walking or biking. For example, the development of e-scooter sharing should not necessarily phase out bike sharing or e-bike sharing. In addition, shared e-scooters can be strategically distributed along popular short-trip driving routes and avoid areas where there are more walking and biking activities."

Its a very generalised assessment as it vastly differentiates depending on the geographic location and local customs. All they have focused on is a circuit around a campus in nice weather (remember those sweaty brown shorts jason??? ). And we all know how Americans love their active transport/public transport/zoning and planning An example would be someone near a TOD/populated area vs someone in a housing estate out of town. In a housing estate you are more likely to drive and do larger trips eg one bigger shopping trip whereas if you live in a more populous/dense area you might do multiple but smaller shopping trips. So you potentially could be doing more steps per day/being consistently active. Being in close proximity of other services also incentivises different transport options such as walking, cycling and scooting instead of driving. Compare Tokyo to any Australian city. You have multiple modes of public transport to quickly move you around the city. You pretty much have universal 30kph speed limits on 90% of the roads. You have lots and lots of bike parking. You have lots of businesses in close proximity. All of which encourages walking and cycling. All of which we do not have in Australia

In 2023, Victorian Police chief commissioner Shane Patton, told ABC radio that changing the speed limit to 30km/h was “not the answer”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-30/ ... /100662478
https://www.news.com.au/technology/moto ... 0ebb1b6f96

In Brisbane we have a big problem with public transport span of hours and frequency isn't there and where there are train stations local planning has prevented TODs. Such as Ferny Grove. This has meant from Bowen Hills-Caboolture stations park and rides has rapidly expanded over the last 20 years. With escooters this has increased the catchment area. Still not enough to warrant actual increases to secure bike/escooter parking or end of trip facilities (a few stations now have showers with secure lockers/bike parking). While not uncommon as it used to be lots of people used to drive and park at Albion and ride into the city from there as that's where the northern bikeway ended. While there is a missing 800m in the middle people now park in there instead. While it goes another 30km to Redcliffe it has turned it into a real commuting/feeder corridor. Stations along the Northern Bikeway has a peak frequency average of a train every 2 minutes so its not uncommon to see all forms of bikes and scooters with users being rough looking tradies to business suits using the infrastructure in both directions to access these train stations.

[Cyclophiliac]

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it occurs so rarely I don't know if it's worth creating a separate thread for it - this morning I saw a bicycle speeding along a local road. What made this bicycle stand out is that it somehow had a petrol motor connected to it - I could hear its noise and see the petrol fumes belching out its rear. Totally, completely illegal, and very noticeable too, so I'm fairly convinced its rider is a complete idiot, because he'll get caught eventually.

[Anrai]

I know it's a bit off-topic, but it occurs so rarely I don't know if it's worth creating a separate thread for it -

I got told to slap those in the Motorists thread. They were quite common in Hobart (well, Glenorchy) before the laws against them got entrenched, and I still hear them now and then.

Edit 21/12/24: I heard another one this morning, even.

[uart]

NSW issued a warning today about the dangers that ebikes and scooters pose to kids. https://www.schn.health.nsw.gov.au/arti ... er-warning

Parents are being warned about the dangers of electric scooters and bikes following a spike in accidents involving children.

Last month, 10 children presented to The Children’s Hospital at Westmead (CHW) and Sydney Children’s Hospital, Randwick (SCH), after being injured riding e-bikes and e-scooters, taking the total to 48 this year. An additional five children have been injured after being hit as a pedestrian by an e-bike or e-scooter.

[AdelaidePeter]

https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/ ... EAD%20MORE

Shock horror. They aren't active transport

"If you are riding an e-scooter you are only getting about two thirds of the physical activity that you would get when walking." That's still something! And still better than drivers.

Besides, it's not only about exercise. Compared to driving, e-scooters are not polluting, not taking up parking space, and best of all, not killing other people.

[jasonc]

https://bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsroom/ ... EAD%20MORE

Shock horror. They aren't active transport

"If you are riding an e-scooter you are only getting about two thirds of the physical activity that you would get when walking." That's still something! And still better than drivers.

Besides, it's not only about exercise. Compared to driving, e-scooters are not polluting, not taking up parking space, and best of all, not killing other people.

Yet
https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... 5azxe.html
Found some examples from the UK. None here, yet

[blizzard]

I saw two ~13 year olds riding their Surron motorbike style ebikes yesterday down the middle of Logan Rd yesterday. Seems crazy to buy your kids one of these things and then let them ride around the streets on them.

[elantra]

I saw two ~13 year olds riding their Surron motorbike style ebikes yesterday down the middle of Logan Rd yesterday. Seems crazy to buy your kids one of these things and then let them ride around the streets on them.

Yeah I saw a crazy guy on an E-motorcycle riding fast on the Bikeway at Toowong this morning.
The only way that these things would be legal would be if it was registered as a motorcycle and then of course it would not be legal on a bikeway - because it’s a motorcycle !

A quick bit of googling says there are 3 variants of the Surron motorcycle, the Light Bee, the Ultra Bee and the Storm Bee.
As far as I can see, they are faster (and probably heavier) than the first motor-scooter that I had about 20 years ago, which was a Honda and could do no more than 55 km/hr.
The HONDA REQUIRED REGISTRATION AND A DRIVERS LICENSE

Anyway we obviously live in a strange world which is stranger and less orderly than it was 20 years ago - not that it was overly orderly back then !

In case it helps anyone feel more reassured about these contradictions, I will just mention that not long afterwards I saw a Police Radar camera car inconspicuously doing its thing on a quiet section of Kenmore Road.
I spose that would be the least of your worries if you are speeding on a bikeway on an unregistered motorcycle.

[Mr Purple]

A quick bit of googling says there are 3 variants of the Surron motorcycle, the Light Bee, the Ultra Bee and the Storm Bee.
As far as I can see, they are faster (and probably heavier) than the first motor-scooter that I had about 20 years ago, which was a Honda and could do no more than 55 km/hr.
The HONDA REQUIRED REGISTRATION AND A DRIVERS LICENSE

This bewilders me too.

My first motorbike was a Sachs Madass 125cc in 2007. 6kW/8Nm of 125cc fury with a maximum (alleged) speed of 101km/hr.



A lot of the e-scooters are faster, and a lot of the e-bikes now are similarly sized and running similar tyres.

And yet they think they don't need to pay rego? Always annoys me when I see one of those stupid e-bikes coming the other way on the bike path because my brain recognises it as a motorbike. Even if they are legal.