the Crazy eDevice rider thread

[jasonc]

escooter pulled out in front of me, whilst travelling along the bicentennial. he then says "watch where you're going". yeah. sure

[Retrobyte]

escooter pulled out in front of me, whilst travelling along the bicentennial. he then says "watch where you're going". yeah. sure

You could have replied, "I am, and so is this video camera"

[jasonc]

https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/1 ... pie-noosa/

“In the lead up to Christmas, I ask that parents also think twice before buying an e-bike for a child that is not able or old enough to ride it legally. Electric motorcycles and electric bikes are not toys.

“Parents can be fined or charged for permitting their children to ride unregistered vehicles as well as ride vehicles when unlicensed.”

[redsonic]

https://mypolice.qld.gov.au/news/2024/1 ... pie-noosa/

“In the lead up to Christmas, I ask that parents also think twice before buying an e-bike for a child that is not able or old enough to ride it legally. Electric motorcycles and electric bikes are not toys.

“Parents can be fined or charged for permitting their children to ride unregistered vehicles as well as ride vehicles when unlicensed.”

Haleluia. About time they started fining the parents. Glad too that the article is calling them e-motorbikes

[jasonc]

Right words. Reading the Facebook post, we not the only ones asking for more enforcement

[elantra]

I had to do a few things at the northern end of the Gold Coast today.
Things are different up there.

You see a greater diversity of e-devices up there, presumably because this is the State that has (so far) been the most accomodating to the e-pocalypse

The stand out today was the bloke on a small-wheel e-scooter going downhill in a crouched position on the scooter - in other words, not standing, which is the usual posture on these things.
I spose there are certain advantages in his technique, presumably it’s more aero and also the falling distance is less if you come off.
But it certainly looked mighty strange.
“Is it a bird, is it a plane, no it’s Superman !”

Actually he wasn’t going very fast and he was wearing a full-face helmet.
But technical against the Law, as he was operating it on a major road with a 60 km/hr speed limit
As they say, the things you see on the GC

[antigee]

escooter pulled out in front of me, whilst travelling along the bicentennial. he then says "watch where you're going". yeah. sure

reminds me of time I was coming down a bridge ramp and preparing to turn sharp right at the end which has to be done slow because tight and you are blind to oncoming riders...head check told me bike behind and then very close - ebike rider shouts "are you turning" answer "yes" ..."well I'd better pass" and then passes fast on my right (no left turn option as a railtrack there so not a misunderstanding)

my observation would be that many users of edevices (legal and illegal) use the acceleration available to push thru path congestion with no concern for the consequences

[jasonc]

my observation would be that many users of edevices (legal and illegal) use the acceleration available to push thru path congestion with no concern for the consequences

it's what they would do in a car. they haven't been told any different

[fat and old]

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

Yeah it's like the elephant in the room isn't it. Totally illegal for a 12 y.o. to even ride an e-scooter on the road in Vic. Plus it's almost certain that the parents not only allowed this but most likely bank rolled it as well. So there's the elephant, it's big, it's loud, it's obvious, but not one mention of it in that story.

Waited a while before posting. I was there. The kid wasn't riding on the road, he was crossing the road.

[Andy01]

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

Yeah it's like the elephant in the room isn't it. Totally illegal for a 12 y.o. to even ride an e-scooter on the road in Vic. Plus it's almost certain that the parents not only allowed this but most likely bank rolled it as well. So there's the elephant, it's big, it's loud, it's obvious, but not one mention of it in that story.

Waited a while before posting. I was there. The kid wasn't riding on the road, he was crossing the road.

It doesn't really matter whether he was riding on the road, or crossing the road - I think (happy to be corrected) the law says that it is illegal for a 12yo to be riding an e-device in a public place unsupervised (by an adult) - period.

[elantra]

I guess this snippet of information relates to the “epidemic” of e-device use (and abuse) so might as well post it here.

This initiative appears to only apply to NSW (as far as I know).
I reckon that if that is the case (NSW only) then it’s benefits will be very much diluted by cross-border purchases of new and 2nd hand devices

“New standards for Lithium-ion batteries in e-micromobility devices”
https://www.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-cons ... 29&jb=1359

[jasonc]

vic road rules for escooters:
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/electric- ... e-scooters

Legal e-scooter use

Use of e-scooters is legalised in Victoria.

You can legally ride an e-scooter in Victoria if you:

ride on:
shared-use paths (not on footpaths), or
roads that have a speed limit up to 60km/h
are at least 16 years old
wear a helmet
do not travel more than 20km/h
do not use your mobile phone
do not carry a passenger (dinking).

[Cyclophiliac]

vic road rules for escooters:
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/electric- ... e-scooters

Legal e-scooter use

Use of e-scooters is legalised in Victoria.

You can legally ride an e-scooter in Victoria if you:

ride on:
shared-use paths (not on footpaths), or
roads that have a speed limit up to 60km/h
are at least 16 years old
wear a helmet
do not travel more than 20km/h
do not use your mobile phone
do not carry a passenger (dinking).

I think I've seen people using e-scooters while simultaneously doing all (or almost all) of the above, and enforcement of that rule is almost non-existent, because there aren't enough police officers to do it, because obviously they have many more severe infringements/crimes to address.

[jasonc]

vic road rules for escooters:
https://www.police.vic.gov.au/electric- ... e-scooters

Legal e-scooter use

Use of e-scooters is legalised in Victoria.

You can legally ride an e-scooter in Victoria if you:

ride on:
shared-use paths (not on footpaths), or
roads that have a speed limit up to 60km/h
are at least 16 years old
wear a helmet
do not travel more than 20km/h
do not use your mobile phone
do not carry a passenger (dinking).

I think I've seen people using e-scooters while simultaneously doing all (or almost all) of the above, and enforcement of that rule is almost non-existent, because there aren't enough police officers to do it, because obviously they have many more severe infringements/crimes to address.

and as I've been saying all along, enforcement is the problem.

[fat and old]

Yeah it's like the elephant in the room isn't it. Totally illegal for a 12 y.o. to even ride an e-scooter on the road in Vic. Plus it's almost certain that the parents not only allowed this but most likely bank rolled it as well. So there's the elephant, it's big, it's loud, it's obvious, but not one mention of it in that story.

Waited a while before posting. I was there. The kid wasn't riding on the road, he was crossing the road.

It doesn't really matter whether he was riding on the road, or crossing the road - I think (happy to be corrected) the law says that it is illegal for a 12yo to be riding an e-device in a public place unsupervised (by an adult) - period.

Correct, it doesn't matter. It's illegal, so tough to be him, at 12 years old. Now if that same 12-year-old had been riding a standard pushy, in the same spot, with the same result, it would have been noted in the 2024 Fatalities thread, and there would have been a call for a lynching. If it had of been a pedestrian, the pitchforks would be out.

This wasn't a 12 y.o. carjacking or breaking and entering or stabbing some random on the street. It was a kid that had limited experience in the world around him who made a bad decision in trusting the adults around him to make the right decisions and to BE AWARE OF WHATS AROUND THEM WHEN DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE.

No amount of "it's illegal wah wah wah" is gonna change that.

[redsonic]

F & O; I don't think anyone here is blaming the 12 year-old.
The blame lies squarely on his parents. The fact that they have monetised his death is particularly disturbing.

I am sorry you got involved with the death of an innocent like this.

Not saying he was a crazy eDevice rider, but a 12 year old boy was killed in a collision with a car and driver in Mill Park.

https://7news.com.au/news/tributes-pour ... c-16871780

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

[OnTrackZeD]

F & O; I don't think anyone here is blaming the 12 year-old.
The blame lies squarely on his parents. The fact that they have monetised his death is particularly disturbing.

I am sorry you got involved with the death of an innocent like this.

Not saying he was a crazy eDevice rider, but a 12 year old boy was killed in a collision with a car and driver in Mill Park.

https://7news.com.au/news/tributes-pour ... c-16871780

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

The blame lies squarely on parents. They always look to blame anyone and everyone else except themselves.

[fat and old]

F & O; I don't think anyone here is blaming the 12 year-old. The blame lies squarely on his parents.

The continual harping about the legality of the things serves to blame the kid implicitly, regardless of making any comments about the parents. On that, there is at least some common sense.

Mind you the one area they may have a point is that the stupid things are openly sold pretty much everywhere, so people who don't do any research may well just assume they're perfectly legal.

You'd be amazed at how ignorant of the law people can be. I'm not in any way excusing his parents here, but if there's anyone here who can tell me they've heard one of his parents say they knowingly bought and allowed the use of an illegal scooter I'd like to hear it?

Anyone?

The fact that they have monetised his death is particularly disturbing.

From the linked article

A GoFundMe has been launched by Safeworking Solutions, where Khye’s father Lee works, to support the family.

The GFM was organised by his employer. Whilst the irony is almost unbearable, it's not uncommon for us Blue Collar types to be supportive of each other in times like this.

I am sorry you got involved with the death of an innocent like this.

Appreciate the sentiment

The blame lies squarely on parents. They always look to blame anyone and everyone else except themselves.

Apart from the fact that I have not read a single line where the parents are blaming anyone, I stand by what I said. A society that abrogates it's responsibilities to children in order to blame individuals leaves a lot to be desired. To use a cycling metaphor, I doubt that the cycling revolution in Holland that began in the 70's would have occurred with that attitude.

[uart]

More information on "Operation Zappo Stoppie" (who thought up that name?) in Noosa here.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-12-10/ ... /104706712

Good to see the police starting to take this seriously. It's been kind of ignored for so long that I think a lot of the kids are starting to see it as normalised, and becoming increasingly more brazen. I know some people who see this type of police action as a bit harsh, but I think it has to happen.

[warthog1]

Operation Zappo Stoppie is targeting electric motorcycles and non-compliant e-bicycles, but not e-scooters.

I don't see why e-scooters are exempted?

[Andy01]

Waited a while before posting. I was there. The kid wasn't riding on the road, he was crossing the road.

It doesn't really matter whether he was riding on the road, or crossing the road - I think (happy to be corrected) the law says that it is illegal for a 12yo to be riding an e-device in a public place unsupervised (by an adult) - period.

Correct, it doesn't matter. It's illegal, so tough to be him, at 12 years old. Now if that same 12-year-old had been riding a standard pushy, in the same spot, with the same result, it would have been noted in the 2024 Fatalities thread, and there would have been a call for a lynching. If it had of been a pedestrian, the pitchforks would be out.

This wasn't a 12 y.o. carjacking or breaking and entering or stabbing some random on the street. It was a kid that had limited experience in the world around him who made a bad decision in trusting the adults around him to make the right decisions and to BE AWARE OF WHATS AROUND THEM WHEN DRIVING A MOTOR VEHICLE.

No amount of "it's illegal wah wah wah" is gonna change that.

I certainly wasn't blaming the kid either, the parents are to blame and it wouldn't surprise me if his parents blamed the government or police - because that is what happens in Qld. No accountability at all, which is quite sad.

However, I do have some personal experience of being blasted straight off my bike by a young boy (maybe 13-14yo) on a high-powered e-scooter (dual motor, 1000W, rated for 70km/h with a 75kg rider etc etc). Kid came around the blind corner on a narrow shared path on the wrong side of the path (my side), doing (I would estimate) over 20km/h up a hill. We met head-on, both went flying and the little turd jumped up and did a runner without even asking if I was OK. I had some great bruises and lost some bark (at 60yo I don't bounce as well), and no serious damage to my bike (aluminium - CF would have been a different outcome).

Also, if I have been one of the young mum's who regularly walks their prams along that path, or the regular oldies or dog walkers who also use the path - the outcome could have been far worse.

Fortunately my front camera captured everything included make, model, colour etc of the scooter, so I sent it to his school (he was in full uniform going to school at the time) and strongly suggested that they intervene and also provide some education (with police assistance if necessary) to both parents and kids.

I did the same after a similar incident - different kid, a few weeks later - he didn't hit me (because I yelled a warning) but he was riding fully on the wrong side of the road towards me doing over 20km/h while fully turned around talking to his mate on another scooter behind him.

I can only assume that the school actually did something because that was about 15 months ago and I haven't seen another kid from that school on an e-scooter since then.

So yes, young boys are sometimes not entirely blameless with these "toys" (give a young boy a scooter with significant power and think that he won't try to use it and do dumb stuff = totally naive), but they don't deserve to die for it, and their lazy/stupid/ignorant parents need to do their jobs properly and be more accountable.

[uart]

Operation Zappo Stoppie is targeting electric motorcycles and non-compliant e-bicycles, but not e-scooters.

I don't see why e-scooters are exempted?

Yeah it seems strange, given that over speed and over powered e-scooters are apparently a significant problem there. My guess is that (given what some Qld members here have said) their stupid laws around e-scooters are too weak to make it feasible. Apparently the police there can do nothing about over powered scooters unless they catch them in the act and can prove that they're speeding. So you can be on a scooter that is capable of 90 km/hr, but unless the police can catch you in that act there's nothing they can do.

E-bikes laws seem to be different, and it's enough to just catch them being on an electric motorbike in a public space and they can act on it, no need for them to be breaking any other laws at the time.

[jasonc]

Uart - they don't even have cranks. Are only powered by the motor. They are a motorbike. Unrestricted ebikes seem to have free reign. V
I have never seen any enforcement. I'm sure I posted it here. Thursday afternoon I was riding home. I passed a kid who would have been 5 riding with his dad. Less than a minute later I saw one of these emotorbikes doing a mono at 50+. Would only take a wobble from the kid and you have a fatality. If they want to ride like that, get a license and go on the road. Bike paths are meant to be safe

[uart]

I passed a kid who would have been 5 riding with his dad. Less than a minute later I saw one of these emotorbikes doing a mono at 50+. Would only take a wobble from the kid and you have a fatality.

I hear what you're saying Jason. Only last week I was passed at about 50cm on my local bikepath by 2 of those emotorbikes, also both doing monos at high speed. Unbelievably dangerous, and I believe that is probably their antisocial intention too. Made me think of the poor elderly cyclist who got killed by that "T.Denny" guy (who conveniently for police had his name written on his bike) while he was similarly hooning on a bike path. That was a conventional petrol motorbike, but it makes no difference to me, they're equally as dangerous. At least that guy got about 7 years jail for manslaughter out of it.

Time to see some serious negligent or reckless driving charges leveled against anyone speeding on a motorcycle (petrol or electric) on bike or shared paths. Let the penalties reflect the risks.

[elantra]

……. <snip>
Time to see some serious negligent or reckless driving charges leveled against anyone speeding on a motorcycle (petrol or electric) on bike or shared paths. Let the penalties reflect the risks.

Unfortunately, don’t hold your breath waiting for it. The “community outrage factor” is not yet high enough for the bureacats to divert Police resources onto this emerging crisis.
Which is an unfortunate paradox because when the “pressure” becomes greater it will be too late…

Those mono stunts must be the latest trend in juvenile social behaviour because you see the little perpetrators doing it all the time.
It’s become an obsession.
50 years ago when I was a kid the obsession was getting your skills up on using a Yo-Yo. A lot more harmless to self and society.
And cheaper for the parents too.