Smart trainers and software

[Mr Purple]

Thanks for the video, I'll have to check it out when I get home.

A colleague is a former racer and he's been wondering how I'd actually go in the real world. The numbers look good on Zwift however I suspect there's a lot of other factors that would slow me down in an actual crit (fear and being self employed being two major ones).

Stomped in a flat 'B' grade race this morning, just couldn't lose the sprinters before the finish and Zwift saw fit to give me a 'ghost' powerup and everyone else an 'aero'. Mind you I also upgraded the wifi router last night and it didn't work at all after that event, so I suspect I actually lost connection some time throughout the sprint as well.

Annoying having a 9W/kg sprint, and the highest one minute and 20 minute W/kg by far and somehow coming 12th out of 35. I suspect there's a certain course profile (this was 'Going Coastal') where W/kg literally makes no difference.

[jasonc]

Stomped in a flat 'B' grade race this morning, just couldn't lose the sprinters before the finish and Zwift saw fit to give me a 'ghost' powerup and everyone else an 'aero'. Mind you I also upgraded the wifi router last night and it didn't work at all after that event, so I suspect I actually lost connection some time throughout the sprint as well.

https://www.pushys.com.au/wahoo-kickr-d ... odule.html

[Mr Purple]

Stomped in a flat 'B' grade race this morning, just couldn't lose the sprinters before the finish and Zwift saw fit to give me a 'ghost' powerup and everyone else an 'aero'. Mind you I also upgraded the wifi router last night and it didn't work at all after that event, so I suspect I actually lost connection some time throughout the sprint as well.

https://www.pushys.com.au/wahoo-kickr-d ... odule.html

Annoyingly out house is all ethernet wired but there's no connection down that edge of the garage, so it won't help.

Every time I try to upgrade our router I regret it. This took me two hours last night because there was a VLAN setting that needed to be changed on a particular submenu that wasn't mentioned anywhere, and just when I got the internet working the wifi range suddenly and randomly dropped to less than a meter. I suspect the router's either busted or there's something stupid and nerdy going on with channel interference and possibly the neighbours network.

[jasonc]

I have two ports in the ceiling above my kickr bike

[am50em]

On my phone I use WiFi Man and WiFi Analyser which will show channels inuse and help pick one with least interference.

[Mr Purple]

On my phone I use WiFi Man and WiFi Analyser which will show channels inuse and help pick one with least interference.

I suspect this is the issue - as in our neighbour may be using a 5GHz band on the same frequency or something.

Equally as likely is that the Asus Smart Connect (auto frequency shifting between 5GHz and 2.4GHz) simply doesn't work, like all 'smart' things. So I'll set it to separate 5GHz and 2.4GHz channels when I get home, and if this doesn't work change the frequency on the 5GHz channel to something out of the ordinary so it doesn't clash with the neighbours. If that doesn't work then the brand new fancy router is presumably broken already.

I suspect it'll all end in me putting the five year old and iffy old router back until the weekend. Never try anything IT related on an afternoon following a long day at work. Especially with your 10yo wondering complaining her smart TV isn't working.

I hate IT. I've never understood why you can have something working one day randomly stop working the next without you changing anything. But it happens all the time in IT.

[g-boaf]

Thanks for the video, I'll have to check it out when I get home.

A colleague is a former racer and he's been wondering how I'd actually go in the real world. The numbers look good on Zwift however I suspect there's a lot of other factors that would slow me down in an actual crit (fear and being self employed being two major ones).

IRL criterium races are usually quite flat so it's all about keeping your speed up and not wasting energy if not needed.

On real mountainous stage races you as a light rider might be able to drop bigger folk downhill by cornering much better and potentially you can stop more easily (versus someone that is 100kg trying to slow down from 70km/h for a hairpin bend).

[am50em]

My Optus WiFi box was always temperamental, requiring reboot from twice a day to once every couple of weeks. After it was getting worse contacted Optus who advised factory reset. Worked perfectly for a couple of weeks then slowly went back to locking up and requiring reboots. Replaced with Netgear Nighthawk AX5 RAX30 and in last 12 months or so have rebooted only once. It is paired with Netgear AX1600 WiFi Mesh Extender downstairs and now have great WiFi throughout two story house including garage.

[Mr Purple]

IRL criterium races are usually quite flat so it's all about keeping your speed up and not wasting energy if not needed.

I actually suspect Zwift races are a reasonable impression of how you'll lose out a fair bit as a lighter rider. I definitely need a few ramps to break the bigger riders, if it's dead flat I just can't lose them before the finish, and they'll outsprint me. The only way I win a sprint is if I've broken everyone else prior to the finish.

I had a reasonably stable wifi network, it was just a slow, older modem. Occasionally everyone would just disappear during a Zwift race which makes it hard to hold on, though the placing still works as a way of judging where you are.

From what I've seen the new fancy router suddenly dropped the 5GHz channel. I'm not sure if that's because it's broken, there's interference somewhere or the 'smart' channel switching isn't actually smart. I'm sure the process of working it out well be entirely frustrating though.

[g-boaf]

IRL one of the light riders in my club (about 55kg) used to demolish other A-grade riders at the Sydney Olympic Park track. It isn't hilly but he'd scorch them every lap on the sharp corner. Then they'd have to accelerate to catch up the gap again.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/KNtps3YwxEC5UXwP7

A group of three big A riders from the same club took it in turns each lap to try attacking until by about half distance he obviously had enough of that and says "the game is over, you guys are finished" and rode away from them.

Of course I had to be unbiased as an official but it was great to watch that. He was a damn good rider.

When he was on Zwift people used to question his results because he was so light and had so much power, but it was all real.

I also fell victim to his speed on a normal ride IRL up a hill, I was going very fast but he was able to just go a few km/h better and get away while I couldn't go any more than that heart rate was maximum.

[Mr Purple]

I also fell victim to his speed on a normal ride up a hill, I was going very fast but he was able to just go a few km/h better and get away while I couldn't go any more than that heart rate was maximum.

Yep, that ends up being the problem sometimes. There's just always some faster.

Looking at the others in the event they were actually all highly ranked 'B' class racers - FTPs around 4W/kg, but more importantly around the 70-80kg mark with a 12-15W/kg 15 second. I was 12th but the spread of the top 12 was within 2 seconds. Pretty hard to compete with a 1200W sprint when yours is about half that! Let alone if your connection goes out so you also lose the draft.

The analysis of the last kilometre is fun. Didn't drop below 400W, HR peaked at 194bpm and stayed there for the last 300m, power hit the maximum of 632W on the line. Turns out your heart can only beat so fast.

[Mr Purple]

Sorted out the wifi issue. The wifi radio on the ASUS router had failed after 12 hours of use, reducing the wifi to one channel and a range of less than a meter.

Fortunately the old one still works and Amazon has a pretty top notch return policy. I’ll try again with a different brand once my kid has recovered from the trauma of 9 hours without internet.

[Mr Purple]

I think either Zwift's race grading system is broken or I twigged some sort of warning flag in it.

It took 21 events with 13 wins to get my race score from 360 to 649, and then one race win today to take it from 649 to 746. The cut-off for 'A' grade is 690 so it seems things will be escalating from here.

Let's see if I can get into 'A+'. From what I can see this will require a 20 minute of 4.84W/kg. I'm currently at 4.63W/kg, so probably just need a race with a climb that just ticks over 20 minutes. ADZ is too long!

I'm currently winning based solely on my 60 second of 8.21W/kg. Pretty sure that won't work in 'A' grade. Ranked 133 in Australia currently but can see that going down.

[g-boaf]

I think either Zwift's race grading system is broken or I twigged some sort of warning flag in it.

It took 21 events with 13 wins to get my race score from 360 to 649, and then one race win today to take it from 649 to 746. The cut-off for 'A' grade is 690 so it seems things will be escalating from here.

Let's see if I can get into 'A+'. From what I can see this will require a 20 minute of 4.84W/kg. I'm currently at 4.63W/kg, so probably just need a race with a climb that just ticks over 20 minutes. ADZ is too long!

I'm currently winning based solely on my 60 second of 8.21W/kg. Pretty sure that won't work in 'A' grade. Ranked 133 in Australia currently but can see that going down.

They changed the racing score a bit. I'm now 617 so I went up about 120.

All you need to test this is a 20 minute full out effort then go easy. Just use a Garmin to time it on ADZ.

I haven't been doing races but did do an event the other day stacked with the usual A grade racing suspects and we all went quite crazy.

Dropped the rest by over 2 minutes. It was top 15 then light years back to everyone else.

[Mr Purple]

All you need to test this is a 20 minute full out effort then go easy. Just use a Garmin to time it on ADZ.

I haven't been doing races but did do an event the other day stacked with the usual A grade racing suspects and we all went quite crazy.

Dropped the rest by over 2 minutes. It was top 15 then light years back to everyone else.

Don't you have to set your Zwiftpower event in an actual event? I was thinking something involving the 'Epic KOM' with an extra minute or so on top (probably radio tower, unfortunately).

The gap between 'B' and 'A' is huge. In the 'B' grade events I've pretty much got the field covered and can laze at 3.6-3.7W/kg and just crank it up to 5.5W/kg for the last five minutes or so before wiping them out with an 8W/kg last final minute.

In 'A' I'm barely holding on until those last five minutes, which leaves you nothing left to fight with. Mind you finishing midfield in an 'A' event is probably better training than dominating a 'B' anyway so I'll roll with it. Though even winning a 'B' event means me averaging 250-260W (up to 4.3W/kg) so I hate to think what the numbers are going to be like in 'A'.

Had a good one yesterday - a three man breakaway went off the front on 'Volcano Climb After Party' and I was in the main group behind with the breakaway having a 45 second advantage on the base of the climb. Went hard on the climb (5.5W/kg for 7 minutes) and made up 25 seconds on the breakaway but the group absolutely hung me out to dry, and there was no support to actually catch them. 4th out of 364, though it was an Off the MAAP event anyway so not a proper race.

Good to see the breakaway can actually take Zwift races now. They've definitely fixed something. Just have to actually get in the break next time!

[g-boaf]

Not sure. I don’t have a Zwiftpower account and don’t race.

It’s a sandbagging paradise in any case. Guts carefully cruising along with minimum power then smashing 900w for 15 second to grab a heroic victory then floating in the race score topic about how clever they are.

IRL most of these folk wouldn’t be doing that great because they are big and heavy. But Zwift caters exactly to that crowd.

[Mr Purple]

It’s a sandbagging paradise in any case. Guts carefully cruising along with minimum power then smashing 900w for 15 second to grab a heroic victory then floating in the race score topic about how clever they are.

IRL most of these folk wouldn’t be doing that great because they are big and heavy. But Zwift caters exactly to that crowd.

'A' grade doesn't really. There's no sandbaggers and most of the riders are fairly lightweight in comparison to the lower grades.

The only problem is you're occasionally up against 'legend in their own lunchtime' figures with numbers that'll put them into the pro peloton despite limited riding hours and a name you can't find in any real world race results anywhere. But they're only deluding themselves so I don't really care.

Zwift races are all won on 60 second and 15 second power. The rest of the event is just about not being dropped from the lead group. The worst part is even if you are dropped from the lead group you inevitably end up averaging higher power than them anyway to stay in touch, but finish minutes slower.

[g-boaf]

The biggest problem crowds seem to be the old B, C and D groups, they appear to be worst offenders for sandbagging.

[g-boaf]

Oops: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/zwift- ... -concerns/

Trainer accuracy issues affecting elite racing on Zwift.

Before anyone scoffs at that, some of these are serious outdoor racers as well, eg Ollie Jones of NZ.

[g-boaf]

Racing Score in Zwift has changed again, mine is back down about 80 or so points for me.

I was over 600. I don’t race so doesn’t affect me - but would put me against easier packs.

I could hurt them in hills but any race that is flat I’ll still have no chance.

[g-boaf]

300,000km on Zwift:

https://zwiftinsider.com/cat-allen-interview/

And one of the nicest people you’ll meet on Zwift. She’s gone through some serious challenges and hasn’t let them stop her.

Congrats!

[Mr Purple]

Racing Score in Zwift has changed again, mine is back down about 80 or so points for me.

I was over 600. I don’t race so doesn’t affect me - but would put me against easier packs.

I could hurt them in hills but any race that is flat I’ll still have no chance.

I saw this too, but mine only went down to 702 so still in 'A' grade.

Annoyingly lost 3 virtual KOMs today, all to people with no idea what they're doing. One had half my power, one has 1000km for the year and averaged '552W' for two minutes, and another seems to hold down 500W with a HR of 100. Glad I've progressed to the stage where it doesn't really bother me.

Might cancel my Fulgaz membership for a while. Wondering whether to tell them the 60+ year old who's winning literally everything on there is on a dumb trainer that shows 300W whether he's pedalling it or not before I leave. Feel like it needs to be said, but also sure no-one on there really cares.

[g-boaf]

Might cancel my Fulgaz membership for a while. Wondering whether to tell them the 60+ year old who's winning literally everything on there is on a dumb trainer that shows 300W whether he's pedalling it or not before I leave. Feel like it needs to be said, but also sure no-one on there really cares.

And Zwift has heaps of cheaters still as well, when you try and call it out the regular Zwift racing crowd just says "fast is fun" as long as it isn't in our races all good.

So in return I'm just advocating for e-bikes to be allowed in their sacred races.

[jasonc]

Might cancel my Fulgaz membership for a while. Wondering whether to tell them the 60+ year old who's winning literally everything on there is on a dumb trainer that shows 300W whether he's pedalling it or not before I leave. Feel like it needs to be said, but also sure no-one on there really cares.

And Zwift has heaps of cheaters still as well, when you try and call it out the regular Zwift racing crowd just says "fast is fun" as long as it isn't in our races all good.

So in return I'm just advocating for e-bikes to be allowed in their sacred races.

Change your location into the US where they allow 25mph ebikes when doing that

[Mr Purple]

And Zwift has heaps of cheaters still as well, when you try and call it out the regular Zwift racing crowd just says "fast is fun" as long as it isn't in our races all good.

They do, but at least they generally put some effort into their cheating.

The bit that annoys me about the Fulgaz competitive events is the same guy in his 60's just continually winning them. And at no stage has someone said 'hang on, this can't be right'.

I think it's just a different audience. Zwift is so focussed on 15sec/60sec/5min/20min power you can instantly see when someone's a bit suspect. On Fulgaz it's not unusual to see someone with all those metrics exactly the same number. Because their trainer only puts out one number.