the Crazy eDevice rider thread

[elantra]

Northern New South Wales suburban street 9 pm tonight
2 teens on an e-motorcycle
No headlight
No need to pedal
No need to speed limit
No need to apply helmets

No need to say more !

[Andy01]

Come on - surely over a Schoolies weekend this would be one of the more sensible dumb things that teens are doing

[jasonc]

Come on - surely over a Schoolies weekend this would be one of the more sensible dumb things that teens are doing

the news will cover them tonight

[Bunged Knee]

It doesn't fit in Cyclist fatality due to e-skateboard death.

Man dies after electric skateboard fall on Central Coast, NSW

https://7news.com.au/news/man-dies-afte ... c-16816944

[Andy01]

I was never a skateboarder, but to me those things look as scary as anything - no real brakes, nothing to hold on to, and enough power to get up some real speed. No thanks.

[jasonc]

this one is doing the rounds atm
https://imgur.com/a/old-mate-e-scooter-IJqQ65J
looks to be annerley rd southbound towards gladstone rd (brisbane)

[jasonc]

The e motorbike kids are making an impression on reddit also
https://www.reddit.com/r/brisbane/s/DrT97Q5ZEL

[jasonc]

speed limit is 25 miles per hour yeah? (25mph =~43km/h)

[redsonic]

Not saying he was a crazy eDevice rider, but a 12 year old boy was killed in a collision with a car and driver in Mill Park.

https://7news.com.au/news/tributes-pour ... c-16871780

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

[uart]

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

Yeah it's like the elephant in the room isn't it. Totally illegal for a 12 y.o. to even ride an e-scooter on the road in Vic. Plus it's almost certain that the parents not only allowed this but most likely bank rolled it as well. So there's the elephant, it's big, it's loud, it's obvious, but not one mention of it in that story.

[jasonc]

The good news for qld is the deputy premier said there is an enforcement problem while the clinicians are calling for the mandating of full face helmets
Over 60% off hospital admissions are for private e scooters. Higher speed was suggested. No way! Call me shocked

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17pFosnszB/

[uart]

Over 60% (of overall e-scooter related) hospital admissions are for private e scooters. Higher speed was suggested.
https://www.facebook.com/share/v/17pFosnszB/

Yes, the story said that private scooter injuries were generally more serious (than with hire ones), so higher speed is definitely the problem. Full face helmets might help the rider safety, but it does nothing to protect other path users from them. So much better to enforce the speed limits that they already have. Making the devices themselves require hardware speed limits (like e-bikes) would be a good start. Would make the policing much easier too.

[Andy01]

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

Yeah it's like the elephant in the room isn't it. Totally illegal for a 12 y.o. to even ride an e-scooter on the road in Vic. Plus it's almost certain that the parents not only allowed this but most likely bank rolled it as well. So there's the elephant, it's big, it's loud, it's obvious, but not one mention of it in that story.

Yup, the last 3 serious accidents (2 deaths) in SE Qld (that I have heard about in the media - recent months) have all been illegal - first was a 12yo girl riding to school, second was a young mum with no helmet, third was a 15yo boy.

Strange that families in all cases called on the government to strengthen laws, especially for kids. I wish someone would point out to these families publicly that the existing laws were ignored by them and the riders and both kids were not legally allowed to ride them but did so with parent's blessing (and, as said above, no doubt parents bought the scooters) - so strengthening the laws isn't likely to help.

I felt a little embarrassed for the family's stupidity at making such statements in the media - shows a complete lack of intelligence, and ignorance/disregard for the laws. And because it would seem "harsh" to point out to a grieving family that the laws are not to blame - they are, would not go down well so no-one does it. Realistically, the parents should be charged with breaking the law.

[redsonic]

Realistically, the parents should be charged with breaking the law.

Absolutely. If the parents bought their kid a tiger and it killed the child, they would be charged with child endangerment.

[Mr Purple]

Strange that families in all cases called on the government to strengthen laws, especially for kids. I wish someone would point out to these families publicly that the existing laws were ignored by them and the riders and both kids were not legally allowed to ride them but did so with parent's blessing (and, as said above, no doubt parents bought the scooters) - so strengthening the laws isn't likely to help.

It's always someone else's problem. The government didn't stop us buying our kids illegal e-scooters and letting them ride them!

Mind you the one area they may have a point is that the stupid things are openly sold pretty much everywhere, so people who don't do any research may well just assume they're perfectly legal. Which they're not.

Hilariously I just received an e-mail from Beam selling their ex-hire scooters for $349. That would be because they've been banned from hiring them in Brisbane.

[jasonc]

[MichaelB]

Not saying he was a crazy eDevice rider, but a 12 year old boy was killed in a collision with a car and driver in Mill Park.

https://7news.com.au/news/tributes-pour ... c-16871780

A Go Fund Me campaign has raised $50 000 for his family. I think the police should be investigating them instead. How did a 12 year old end up illegally riding this escooter?

Out riding yesterday and saw two kids of similar age buzzing along the footpath at over 30km/hr (past driveways etc w/out slowing down).

Only a matter of time before more of it happens, sadly.

[jasonc]

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/it-s ... -very-much

Now, there are a lot of potential uses and users for e-bikes. There is a continuum starting with sporting or hobby riders who want the training and exercise benefit, but just want a little help on the hills. Then there are commuters. Then there are food delivery guys. And finally there are phone thieves.

The only group here that doesn’t want a bike that goes as fast as possible for as little effort as possible is the first one. I can see the benefits – if you’re recovering from injury, getting on in years, or living in a very hilly area and don’t always want a hard ride, it’s a great idea. That is, in fact, almost the entire market for a ‘traditional’ (by which I think I mean ‘legal’) e-bike.

Everyone else might as well buy the electric motorbike. And increasingly they are. Given there is zero enforcement of the laws around them, the only reason you wouldn’t is if you have a sort of grandstanding urge to be obedient or if you need to carry the thing up three flights of stairs on a regular basis.

sounds very familiar

[AdelaidePeter]

Mind you the one area they may have a point is that the stupid things are openly sold pretty much everywhere, so people who don't do any research may well just assume they're perfectly legal. Which they're not.

Yeah this is the real problem. Out of interest I googled "escooters Melbourne" and Scooter Hut came up; they have 3 stores in Melbourne. I don't want to give them the gratification of a link, but they have at least one "children's" escooter for sale with no mentions of the law, even saying it is suitable for ages 6 and up.

[Mr Purple]

Yeah this is the real problem. Out of interest I googled "escooters Melbourne" and Scooter Hut came up; they have 3 stores in Melbourne. I don't want to give them the gratification of a link, but they have at least one "children's" escooter for sale with no mentions of the law, even saying it is suitable for ages 6 and up.

Out of interest I just did a little research based on the e-bike descriptions above and instantly found one store openly selling a dual motor, 2 x 1000W motorcycle engined pedal assist e-bike with an optional throttle that weighs 49kg and has a maximum speed of 50km/hr.

Interesting how much of that is clearly illegal. It should be limited to 250W, not 2000W, it should not be available with a throttle, and with 2kW that maximum speed is clearly hugely understated.

The funniest part is it has a 7 speed Altus derailleur and rear cassette. I'm not even sure why they bothered with gears, the whole system is clearly just a switch for the 2kW worth of electric motors.

[AdelaidePeter]

Yeah this is the real problem. Out of interest I googled "escooters Melbourne" and Scooter Hut came up; they have 3 stores in Melbourne. I don't want to give them the gratification of a link, but they have at least one "children's" escooter for sale with no mentions of the law, even saying it is suitable for ages 6 and up.

Out of interest I just did a little research based on the e-bike descriptions above and instantly found one store openly selling a dual motor, 2 x 1000W motorcycle engined pedal assist e-bike with an optional throttle that weighs 49kg and has a maximum speed of 50km/hr.

Interesting how much of that is clearly illegal. It should be limited to 250W, not 2000W, it should not be available with a throttle, and with 2kW that maximum speed is clearly hugely understated.

I believe that it's not illegal for off-road (though maybe it should be).

[jasonc]

Yeah this is the real problem. Out of interest I googled "escooters Melbourne" and Scooter Hut came up; they have 3 stores in Melbourne. I don't want to give them the gratification of a link, but they have at least one "children's" escooter for sale with no mentions of the law, even saying it is suitable for ages 6 and up.

Out of interest I just did a little research based on the e-bike descriptions above and instantly found one store openly selling a dual motor, 2 x 1000W motorcycle engined pedal assist e-bike with an optional throttle that weighs 49kg and has a maximum speed of 50km/hr.

Interesting how much of that is clearly illegal. It should be limited to 250W, not 2000W, it should not be available with a throttle, and with 2kW that maximum speed is clearly hugely understated.

I believe that it's not illegal for off-road (though maybe it should be).

it's illegal anywhere in public, including off road. so you could use it in your own, or another person's property, with their permission, of course

[Mr Purple]

I believe that it's not illegal for off-road (though maybe it should be).

Well nothing's really illegal offroad. But anyone who spends $5300 on something like this instead of an actual dirt bike for offroad use honestly shouldn't be trusted with money because they're an idiot.

For a similar price you can have an actual offroad motorcycle in either electric or petrol with more power (about 8-10 times as much), actual suspension and proper brakes.

Heck, on the same website the bike I described above is, they sell an electric trail bike with 5kW (12kW peak) proper brakes, proper suspension and actual stability. And it costs $500 more than the stupid make-pretend legal e-bike with pedals, Shimano Altus, and Tekno hydraulic brakes with 2kW.

Let's not kid anyone, there's clearly a market for e-bikes that are made to LOOK legal but aren't ACTUALLY legal. These are sold as 'off road use only' but also useless offroad compared to many other options around the same price. So what are they actually for? They're for if you want to illegally ride an e-motorbike on road but don't want to register it, so you want one that looks legal.

Even more foolishly it is definitely possible to buy an actual registered on-road electric scooter that you can bolt plates on and is fully road legal for less money than the $5-6k illegal e-bikes and scooters. But then you'd need a licence, and to pay a small amount of registration for it. So that won't sell either.

How no-one in government can look at this developing market and not think 'but these companies are just selling illegal things, with no actual practical use that is legal, and are pretending to look legal' and ban their importation is what gets me.

[uart]

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/it-s ... -very-much

Now, there are a lot of potential uses and users for e-bikes. There is a continuum starting with sporting or hobby riders who want the training and exercise benefit, but just want a little help on the hills. Then there are commuters. Then there are food delivery guys. And finally there are phone thieves.
The only group here that doesn’t want a bike that goes as fast as possible for as little effort as possible is the first one.

Very true words there by cycling weekly Jason. I'm an older rider, and I often ride with people who fit that first category perfectly. It's not about speed for them, it's not about foregoing exercise either, it's just assistance for (non competitive) social rides that they might otherwise be unable to complete.

E-bikes can be such a positive thing in this scenario, but the lack of enforcement around the overpowered ones, that people often want for all the wrong reasons, could spoil it for everyone.

[jasonc]

E-bikes can be such a positive thing in this scenario, but the lack of enforcement around the overpowered ones, that people often want for all the wrong reasons, could spoil it for everyone.

No could about it. It's already making my commute, which has a crap load of bike only path, less safe. I have discussed using roads again