New road bike. What's your desire ?

[CmdrBiggles]

Choice depends on the result of my bike fit - if a Defy is easier to make work than a TCR I'd go the Defy.

We'll see! I'm getting old but still pretty strong provided my left shoulder sorts itself out quickly. Sick of riding folded up on an undersized frame though.

I can't judge other riders and the physical ability, but if you're a strong, powerful rider, the TCR may not be right, and a frame that is more beefier may be preferred — like the Trek Checkpoint and its beefier squared profile. TCR tubes are amazingly thin slender. Lots of smaller, average physique riders are on TCRs (four in my Saturday morning riding group, but mostly dominated by huge and xxxx-exxy Italian bikes ridden by oiled-up beefcakes) IDK, I'm at the other end — fly-weight and a nimble spinner (85-100rpm), but treated like a discarded feather in breezes, to be bumped about and played with before the novelty wears off and I can continue on my merry way!

[blizzard]

The Defy is definitely top shelf, well as much as the TCR or Propel is top shelf, the levels 0, 1, 2 only really refer to groupset spec. Frame levels are defined by low to high by Advanced, Advanced Pro and Advanced SL. In general the Advanced and Advanced Pro have the exact same frame but heavier 1 1/8" fork. The Advanced Pro and Advanced SL share the same 1 1/4" fork, but the Advanced SL has a lighter / stiffer frame and also seat mast on the TCR and Propel.

The TCR would very much be the right frame for kind of riding Mr P does, it is designed to be super stiff and efficient at the expense of being aerodynamic.

[g-boaf]

I can't judge other riders and the physical ability, but if you're a strong, powerful rider,

Before his accident, he seemed to be a similar kind of rider to what I used to be (before my accident), fairly light and a lot of 5-10min power, I had no dramas with older TCR Advanced SL frames which were fairly light. The only thing I didn't appreciate with them was the integrated seat post, and they were quite harsh riding bikes (I had two of them set up nearly identical to compare), apart from that they were good.

I don't know what the new ones are like so I'm not going to judge them one way or the other.

[am50em]

Current TCRs do not have integrated seat post. "From the road-smoothing Variant seatpost".

[Mr Purple]

I’m still the same weight and 5-10 minute power is already back up to 5W/kg and improving though I am picking up my cadence to save wear and broken frames.

The TCR should be fine. It’s more geometry than tube profile that will make the decision.

I believe the Pro models have a separate seatpost now, the SL are still integrated. By all reviews ride quality is excellent.

[warthog1]

I have a secondhand tcr I have done 30k+ km on. Dunno what it did beforehand. It has been bullet proof.

I don't expect Mr P is going to approach this guy for weight and power.
https://www.greenedgecycling.com/team/dylangroenewegen/
The bike seems to survive that ok.

[CmdrBiggles]

I can't judge other riders and the physical ability, but if you're a strong, powerful rider,

Before his accident, he seemed to be a similar kind of rider to what I used to be (before my accident), fairly light and a lot of 5-10min power, I had no dramas with older TCR Advanced SL frames which were fairly light. The only thing I didn't appreciate with them was the integrated seat post, and they were quite harsh riding bikes (I had two of them set up nearly identical to compare), apart from that they were good.

I don't know what the new ones are like so I'm not going to judge them one way or the other.

No integral seatposts on TCRs — SP is free moving up and down with an exceptionally neat finish at the seat-stay/top-tube junction. On Treks, adjustment can be a pain, especially if there is insufficient downward adjustment. Believe it or not, when considering the sparkly Trek Emonda back in February, we actively canvassed the idea of cutting a bit of the integral seatpost off in order to provide more lowering! It was fortunate that an unboxed TCR (not in my size however) was waiting in the wings to be discovered. And so, the potentially destructive (but also common! ) cut-and-grind of the Emonda integral seatpost was avoided!

[CmdrBiggles]

I’m still the same weight and 5-10 minute power is already back up to 5W/kg and improving though I am picking up my cadence to save wear and broken frames.

The TCR should be fine. It’s more geometry than tube profile that will make the decision.

I believe the Pro models have a separate seatpost now, the SL are still integrated. By all reviews ride quality is excellent.

Yes, I can speak for the fit and ride quality, along with directional stability and willingness to turn with grace. No barnacles or billycocks on my bum after 4,600km, so it must be the right bike for the rider.

[CmdrBiggles]

The Defy is definitely top shelf, well as much as the TCR or Propel is top shelf, the levels 0, 1, 2 only really refer to groupset spec. Frame levels are defined by low to high by Advanced, Advanced Pro and Advanced SL. In general the Advanced and Advanced Pro have the exact same frame but heavier 1 1/8" fork. The Advanced Pro and Advanced SL share the same 1 1/4" fork, but the Advanced SL has a lighter / stiffer frame and also seat mast on the TCR and Propel.

The TCR would very much be the right frame for kind of riding Mr P does, it is designed to be super stiff and efficient at the expense of being aerodynamic.

An additional difference is the steerer tube is carbon in the Advanced 0-AR.

[g-boaf]

I’m still the same weight and 5-10 minute power is already back up to 5W/kg and improving though I am picking up my cadence to save wear and broken frames.

The TCR should be fine. It’s more geometry than tube profile that will make the decision.

I believe the Pro models have a separate seatpost now, the SL are still integrated. By all reviews ride quality is excellent.

Yes, I can speak for the fit and ride quality, along with directional stability and willingness to turn with grace. No barnacles or billycocks on my bum after 4,600km, so it must be the right bike for the rider.

What kind of long rides are you doing with the TCR? I was doing regularly 150km, sometimes 180km with my old one:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-565 ... pkB-X5.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-MBr ... BrSVXD.jpg
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-7s7 ... s7zNKh.jpg

I had a second one as well (the green one) which I still have, but it hasn't been used much since I have newer and better bikes.

[blizzard]

The steerer tube is carbon now on all TCRs, the Advanced models used to have a alloy steerer but no longer. The TCR Advanced SL still has a seatmast. The Advanced and Advanced Pro have a sliding seat post.

[g-boaf]

The steerer tube is carbon now on all TCRs, the Advanced models used to have a alloy steerer but no longer. The TCR Advanced SL still has a seatmast. The Advanced and Advanced Pro have a sliding seat post.

I thought so, looking at the clamp. It's probably not the same one but I noticed it immediately from the image. On the old ones the clamp used to be a source of creaks as well. It was drive me mad.

[Mr Purple]

My best friend since highschool has forgotten more about bikes than I'll ever know.

He just said 'buy the Giant and ride it until it's dead'.

I'll take his word for it! Hopefully the timing will work to pick up the discontinued colourway of this year's model for cheap and I'll have $3-4k leftover to buy a steel frameset for my old Ultegra groupset. That way I can have a reliable bike that goes fast and a bike with actual character.

[CmdrBiggles]

What kind of long rides are you doing with the TCR? I was doing regularly 150km, sometimes 180km with my old one:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-565 ... pkB-X5.jpg

Completed first century I think 5 months back (118km/6 hours). I have three since then (e.g. out and back Geelong to Lorne, 69km one way) not done anything up to 150km. Group rides of 50 to 70km (60km yesterday). If I am not rostered on during weekdays, I get a 50 to 60km ride in on a rail trail (parallels a dangerous highway, which I just will not ride).

Need to be stepping up the tally of century rides now, with the bigger one coming up on a date to be set in November (320km/2 days).

I'm taking into account I'm not a spring chicken (ride moniker, "Chicken Legs") now like I was in 1984.

I am also commuting on work trips (MTB, not road). I'm concentrating on getting any type of cycling done, not just road.

The TCR — XS, so it looks like a BMX bike on steroids preened with Turtle Wax...) delivers. I think last week I was thundering along on a 2.2% downhill grade (once a railway line, so it is gentle, but perceptible) touching 70km/h. The Flyin' Mullet! By the grace of God there were no wandering pedestrians or untethered dogs! Remember I'm only a youngster at 63, and I still very much enjoy a speed kick!

[CmdrBiggles]

The steerer tube is carbon now on all TCRs, the Advanced models used to have a alloy steerer but no longer. The TCR Advanced SL still has a seatmast. The Advanced and Advanced Pro have a sliding seat post.

There's only one way for that seat post — UP. Would not work for me.
That seat mast is what we were eyeballing for a grinder job with the Emonda!
The deafening silence and glazed eyes in the workshop as the boss mulled that with grinder in hand and me watching enthusiastically from the side!

[CmdrBiggles]

I have a secondhand tcr I have done 30k+ km on. Dunno what it did beforehand. It has been bullet proof.

I don't expect Mr P is going to approach this guy for weight and power.
https://www.greenedgecycling.com/team/dylangroenewegen/
The bike seems to survive that ok.

There's a few things wrong with that photo.
Tell me, something's up...

[warthog1]

Yeah the photo looks touched up.
Point is the bike is strong enough for him I think it's safe to assume Mr P should be ok on it

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/dylan-groenewegen

[CmdrBiggles]

Yeah the photo looks touched up.
Point is the bike is strong enough for him I think it's safe to assume Mr P should be ok on it

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/dylan-groenewegen

I agree with the point.
But the pic ... likely AI-generated from a likeness.
Only way to be sure is to check and count his fingers! A small detail that AI always gets comically *very* wrong!

[blizzard]

The steerer tube is carbon now on all TCRs, the Advanced models used to have a alloy steerer but no longer. The TCR Advanced SL still has a seatmast. The Advanced and Advanced Pro have a sliding seat post.

There's only one way for that seat post — UP. Would not work for me.
That seat mast is what we were eyeballing for a grinder job with the Emonda!
The deafening silence and glazed eyes in the workshop as the boss mulled that with grinder in hand and me watching enthusiastically from the side!

The seatmast is designed to be cut to your preferred height. Once cut you can use spacers to move it a couple cm higher using spacers or a different clamp or cut it lower. It does make it harder to resell because once cut, you are eliminating a portion of the resale market.

[Duck!]

The steerer tube is carbon now on all TCRs, the Advanced models used to have a alloy steerer but no longer. The TCR Advanced SL still has a seatmast. The Advanced and Advanced Pro have a sliding seat post.

I thought so, looking at the clamp. It's probably not the same one but I noticed it immediately from the image. On the old ones the clamp used to be a source of creaks as well. It was drive me mad.

The main cause of creaking from those post heads is an off-square cut to the post; if it's not cut square, the post head only seats on a small sector of the tube end, so can move, which causes creaks.

The reversible, two-position clamp heads that Giant have used since about 2009 can also creak a bit, especially if the saddle is pushed to either of its fore/aft adjustment limits. This affects both ISP heads and standard sliding posts, as the saddle clamp assembly is the same on both.

[davehirst]

The giant defy sl now comes with an adjustable seatpost.
Its geometry is very close to the dale supersix, so in essence it is a comfortable race bike with a great warranty.
I have had this in my sights for a while

[AndrewCowley]

The Defy is very aggressive for an endurance bike.

[Mr Purple]

The Defy is very aggressive for an endurance bike.

Agreed.

I compared the geometry of the 2024 Defy and TCR with my 2017 Izalco Max and the reach is all of 3mm shorter on the Defy, though the stack is 26mm higher. Interestingly the TCR is 5mm longer and 13mm higher.

I suspect it won't make a huge amount of difference which one I choose.

[jasonc]

The Defy is very aggressive for an endurance bike.

Agreed.

I compared the geometry of the 2024 Defy and TCR with my 2017 Izalco Max and the reach is all of 3mm shorter on the Defy, though the stack is 26mm higher. Interestingly the TCR is 5mm longer and 13mm higher.

I suspect it won't make a huge amount of difference which one I choose.

I went from a domane to a tarmac. i was working on my flexibility in between, and continue to do so

[AndrewCowley]

I went from a domane to a tarmac. i was working on my flexibility in between, and continue to do so

That's so extreme! Well done to you.

Sometime soon, I will get a bike fit assessment for whether I can ride a Tarmac or Aethos. Not sure I can manage it, but will see.