The Dumb Cyclists and Pedestrians thread...

[warthog1]

I think that we as cyclists need to apply some self-preservation thinking and do everything we can (out of choice) to make it as hard for drivers to miss us as possible. Relying on drivers to keep us safe is a very flawed concept

Yep, geroff the road!!

And also geroff the paths. In fact geroff anything. Bicycles just shouldn’t exist at all in this country.

Someone will read comments such as those before and take that to mean that you shouldn’t be on any road at all no matter what, no excuses, nothing.

I prefer bright lights, colours aren’t enough.

What point are you attempting to make there GB that relates to wearing clothes that are a similar colour to the background?
Sure lights are good. So is not blending into the background.
I agree that relying on drivers to keep us safe is a flawed concept. We all do to some extent unfortunately.
Not being camouflaged makes sense to avoid being hit.

[jasonc]

Requiring drivers to abide by road rules is the minimum that is expected. Too many don't meet that. We need enforcement of the existing road rules, not new ones that won't help

[g-boaf]

I think that we as cyclists need to apply some self-preservation thinking and do everything we can (out of choice) to make it as hard for drivers to miss us as possible. Relying on drivers to keep us safe is a very flawed concept

Yep, geroff the road!!

And also geroff the paths. In fact geroff anything. Bicycles just shouldn’t exist at all in this country.

Someone will read comments such as those before and take that to mean that you shouldn’t be on any road at all no matter what, no excuses, nothing.

I prefer bright lights, colours aren’t enough.

What point are you attempting to make there

Trying to make the point that comments like those before might be construed by some anti-cycling crowd to "get off the roads" under the idea of "self preservation" and worse, some in the media and politicians might also run with it.

Requiring drivers to abide by road rules is the minimum that is expected. Too many don't meet that. We need enforcement of the existing road rules, not new ones that won't help

It's unfortunately easier to just put the safety requirements on bicycle riders and that will also win votes.

As for paths, I was walking this afternoon and had three times of trail bikes blasting past at 60km/h+. Police cannot do anything about it, there aren't enough of them.

[warthog1]

Kill someone with a car and chances are there will be no significant penalty.
I don't expect there will be any significant change in our legislation or court system to change that in my lifetime.
I am just interesting in doing what I can to avoid being hit.

[Mr Purple]

I always wear bright jersedys because why not? But any move towards making high-vis compulsory for cyclists is victim blaming at its best.

This article in particular.

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/d ... ds-147438/

“I had [an experience] myself recently… when I was just about to turn onto the main road.

“Someone came past on an electric bike going at about 70km/h and they were dressed in pure black.”

That's the deputy leader of WA speaking. So he sees an electric bike going 70km/hr and thinks what the cyclist was wearing was the main safety issue? Dingbat.

[Andy01]

Yep, geroff the road!!

And also geroff the paths. In fact geroff anything. Bicycles just shouldn’t exist at all in this country.

Someone will read comments such as those before and take that to mean that you shouldn’t be on any road at all no matter what, no excuses, nothing.

I prefer bright lights, colours aren’t enough.

What point are you attempting to make there

Trying to make the point that comments like those before might be construed by some anti-cycling crowd to "get off the roads" under the idea of "self preservation" and worse, some in the media and politicians might also run with it.

Requiring drivers to abide by road rules is the minimum that is expected. Too many don't meet that. We need enforcement of the existing road rules, not new ones that won't help

It's unfortunately easier to just put the safety requirements on bicycle riders and that will also win votes.

As for paths, I was walking this afternoon and had three times of trail bikes blasting past at 60km/h+. Police cannot do anything about it, there aren't enough of them.

I have no idea at all how you arrived at the conclusion that my comment suggested that cyclists should get off the road

All I am suggesting that I think that as a cyclist I will do everything I can to make it as "hard" to be not seen as possible - that is self preservation. I know from experience (I was taken out head-on by a SUV 3 years ago, and have significant scarring to show for it) that no-one out there is looking out for me, so it is up to me to look out for myself.

Short of getting miniature police lights & sirens, all I can do is have bright flashing lights and wear brightly coloured clothes (I choose orange) and a brightly coloured helmet (again, bright orange). Is that going to guarantee my safety - of course not, but it is unlikely to make it any worse.

I think that too many cyclists choose to wear what they think might look trendy or fashionable, which is often sleek looking predominantly black clothing, and a sleek dark grey or black helmet, and IMO they are not doing themselves any favours. I couldn't give a rat's about how I look - if it helps (even a little bit) to keep me out of hospital and away from plastic surgeons, I see that as a good thing.

[warthog1]

I see it that way too. Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself.

[Mr Purple]

I see it that way too. Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself.

I am amused by the group of cyclists who point out a couple of studies saying high-vis isn't actually safer for cyclists.

I acknowledge the existence of these studies but invite them to walk onto a worksite dressed entirely in black and see how long they're allowed to stay there. There is admittedly far more evidence for flashy lights though, so I have those as well!

[jasonc]

I see it that way too. Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself.

I am amused by the group of cyclists who point out a couple of studies saying high-vis isn't actually safer for cyclists.

I acknowledge the existence of these studies but invite them to walk onto a worksite dressed entirely in black and see how long they're allowed to stay there. There is admittedly far more evidence for flashy lights though, so I have those as well!

note where PPE is in the list

[Mr Purple]

Yep, you're right.

And I suspect a lot of this talk about compulsory high-vis is because that's about the only way the motoring public can still blame the cyclist.

[nezumi]

I see it that way too. Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself.

I am amused by the group of cyclists who point out a couple of studies saying high-vis isn't actually safer for cyclists.

I acknowledge the existence of these studies but invite them to walk onto a worksite dressed entirely in black and see how long they're allowed to stay there. There is admittedly far more evidence for flashy lights though, so I have those as well!

At least in part, those on a work site are conditioned to *look for* high-vis, which is part of the safety attributes of it. I have no objection to people wearing high-vis. I don't want people to wear it thinking that it will massively improve their safety, or inadvertently taking greater risks as a result of wearing it - and I especially don't want people calling for compulsory high-vis for cyclists as if that's the be all and end all of risk management.

[piledhigher2]

I see it that way too. Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself.

I am amused by the group of cyclists who point out a couple of studies saying high-vis isn't actually safer for cyclists.

I acknowledge the existence of these studies but invite them to walk onto a worksite dressed entirely in black and see how long they're allowed to stay there. There is admittedly far more evidence for flashy lights though, so I have those as well!

Most worksites would also insist that the vehicles also had high vis and flashing beacons do maybe motorists will sign up for that?

[mikesbytes]

Pedestrian deaths are a lot higher than cyclists deaths. If mandating high vis for cyclists is considered a way to reduce deaths then shouldn’t it be mandated for pedestrians?

BRY is high vis mandated in any other countries?

[warthog1]

Nobody is advocating mandating it. The point was made about a lack of lighting and dark clothing being worn by cyclists making it harder to be see them.
Wear what you want when on the road with tonne plus metal vehicles passing at speed.
if your intent is to minimise the risk of being hit by vehicles then contrast with the background by not wearing dark clothing would appear to logically make sense.
Apparently rather than accept it does make sense there must be some element that can be disagreed with even if that is a point that was not suggested.
Anyay I guess the argument is that suggesting clothing choices is a slippery slope to mandating it.

Go ahead and wear dark clothing
I now suggest everyone wear dark clothing so we can prove we wont be told what we should wear. Get those damn colours away from the road. They are distracting and uncool. Dark is the only colour any of us should wear. Matter of fact dont tell me to use lights either, or radars or mirrors. I wont have people mandating me to use them either. If too many start using them pretty soon pretty soon everyone will be forced to.

[Peter A]

SAFETY BLACK............LOL. Fashionable and amazing how many wear it, plain crazy.
Perfectly agree with - "Short of getting miniature police lights & sirens, all I can do is have bright flashing lights and wear brightly coloured clothes (I choose orange) and a brightly coloured helmet (again, bright orange). Is that going to guarantee my safety - of course not, but it is unlikely to make it any worse"
Re the pollie that commented on the black clad 70kph ebiker - I think the average motorist is not looking for something as small as a bicycle to be travelling at 70kph, being black clad he's possibly quite afraid he will not see the approaching rider and collide - I can agree with his sentiment.
More commonsense here also - ".................-Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself"

[elantra]

SAFETY BLACK............LOL. Fashionable and amazing how many wear it, plain crazy.
Perfectly agree with - "Short of getting miniature police lights & sirens, all I can do is have bright flashing lights and wear brightly coloured clothes (I choose orange) and a brightly coloured helmet (again, bright orange). Is that going to guarantee my safety - of course not, but it is unlikely to make it any worse"
Re the pollie that commented on the black clad 70kph ebiker - I think the average motorist is not looking for something as small as a bicycle to be travelling at 70kph, being black clad he's possibly quite afraid he will not see the approaching rider and collide - I can agree with his sentiment.
More commonsense here also - ".................-Contrast with the background, being the road, rather the blend in and camouflage oneself"

I think that the recent fashion for dark clothing just underscores the extreme power of… Fashion.

30 years ago we were buying lurid colourful bikes and clothing that took inspiration from the stylish creations of Ken Done and Jenny Kee.
It was very fashionable then - and quite functional !

[Andy01]

note where PPE is in the list

While I absolutely agree with (after nearly 40 years in engineering in large manufacturing plants), the problem is that as cyclists we can only control what we can control - which is PPE.

Having segregated bike-only paths is obviously a far better (engineering or hazard elimination) control, but we have no control and minimal influence over that.

[jasonc]

note where PPE is in the list

While I absolutely agree with (after nearly 40 years in engineering in large manufacturing plants), the problem is that as cyclists we can only control what we can control - which is PPE.

Having segregated bike-only paths is obviously a far better (engineering or hazard elimination) control, but we have no control and minimal influence over that.

No disagreement there. I have a varia on the rear of my bike which light flashes furiously when vehicles approach. it still requires drivers to look up from their phone to see me....

[Anrai]

Hey, I've got a big question after watching multiple runners in a particular spot on the way into Hobart:
If you're out running for time or distance training is there any reason at all to cut out onto the road when your path turns away from the most direct route? I've seen it twice now, and I'm going to be extra careful around the runners on that corner as I've seen them no-look cut across the other lane onto the road.

Ah, actually I found the reason. Thought I'd check the Strava running map and sure enough every Segment follows straight along next to the highway, which I assume is why all the runners are cutting across the side street.

[jaseyjase]

18.19...fess up

[Anrai]

One of my centre-line encounters was in the middle of a wireless earbuds phone call.

I think I found the same person again. These days normally I just overtake if there's room but this time it was on a section tight enough to announce the pass and he was trending closer to the centre line than the barrier to his left. I don't think he even heard me anyway through another phone call.

[bychosis]

18.19...fess up

That first 30s opening clip is pure chaos.

[Retrobyte]

That first 30s opening clip is pure chaos.

I know it's in Sydney, but it looks like how bikes and motor scooters ride in many Asian cities!

[bychosis]

That first 30s opening clip is pure chaos.

I know it's in Sydney, but it looks like how bikes and motor scooters ride in many Asian cities!

True about Asian traffic. It's mosrly chaos, but it kinda works because it's chaotic. In my experience our traffic is quite ordered and throwing chaos in causes more serious incidents.

[Mr Purple]

True about Asian traffic. It's mosrly chaos, but it kinda works because it's chaotic. In my experience our traffic is quite ordered and throwing chaos in causes more serious incidents.

I was going to argue that chaos clearly doesn't work because the road toll in Asia is so much higher than here, but it's actually not as bad as I expected!

Four times as many fatalities per 100,000 population than Australia, to be sure. But still slightly better than the worldwide average.

Africa? Not so much!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Fairly appalling that the United States has three times our road toll per head of population.