1943/1944 Bismire Bike

mitchbike
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1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby mitchbike » Thu Jun 22, 2017 12:55 am

Hi Everyone,

First time poster here.

We are cleaning out my grandfathers place in prep for his home to be sold (as he is about to move into a care facility), and during the cleanout we came across a bike. Grandpa told me that his brother used to ride his bike from Campsie to Marrickville to work every day during the war.

The bike is a George Bismire branded bike, and has cleaned up rather well. Fully hand painted, and even has not only the original toolkit with it, but an innertube patch as well :lol: . Condition wise it's VERY good for it's age.

Knowing absolutely nothing about bikes, we have no idea what to do with it.

Are bikes like this (1943 to 1944 vintage) likely to have any sort of monetary value attached to them, or will any value be sentimental?

Having a look online I struggled to find any places that either might be interested to buy, or even be able to value such a bike.

If it's worth something that's great, but if it's better for us to keep and accrue in value even better.

Another thought I had was perhaps it may hold value to someone who collects memorabillia around WW2 era.

Thanks for any help anyone can offer on this one.

Cheers :)

- Mitch

Torana68
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Torana68 » Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:54 am

cant tell you anything without photos......... except its probably worth more to you than anyone else
Ozpushies! for ALL Australian made bikes.
"It's only original once"

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hiflange
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby hiflange » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:44 am

Photos are a great help, upload your pics to Flickr or photobucket or some such and use the sharing they provide to embed your images here. Have a read of this ramble, hope it helps.

I found this BNA topic noting George Bismire's death. Cludence might be able to offer more?

70 year old bikes in good condition with their original toolkits are vanishingly rare. As are people interested in such machines! So, the market is limited. Another price dampener is brand recognition. I recently bought a complete, original, locally built 1930's "The West" bike for under $200. Very few people today have heard of The West. Had it been a Malvern Star, Flash or a Swansea I might have paid three or four times that. Sometimes rarity doesn't add value.

If you have the space and appropriate storage conditions (cool, dry, free from UV) why not hang on to it? Alternatively I have no doubt you'll receive a couple of PM's from BNA'ers keen to add it to their collections, you could take an offer up and trust that it will be cared for.

Many collectors are motivated by the "story" part of history. The most important thing you can do to ensure it's value and survival is make some record (written or recorded) of it's origins and travails. Can't wait to see it!

mitchbike
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby mitchbike » Sat Jun 24, 2017 3:45 pm

Thank you to both your posts.

I'm a big supporter of preserving as much of the past as we can. Even in Sydney there are some amazing stories and areas that people don't even realise exist, and I believe it's important to keep that history well preserved, and let as much people know about it (I'm talking about the submarine cable/pill boxes/batteries and gun emplacements that dot our harbour foreshores and Bradleys Head).

My grandfather is sharp of mind enough that he can recall such specific details of the past like they were yesterday, and whilst his brother is no longer with us, he can accurately retell the stories of the bikes past.

I'm suprised there aren't more antique bike dealers out there as I'd have thought the market for it was quite large (maybe I watch too much American/Candian Pickers though! LOL).

I'll try and get some pictures of it as currently it's at my parents place and *possibly* they haven't sold it at a Garage sale they were holding today.

Thanks again everyone :)

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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Torana68 » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:51 pm

mitchbike wrote: maybe I watch too much American/Candian Pickers though!

yep I'd guess so, scripted "reality" shows from OS don't relate to life here at all, you wont get rich buying and selling old bikes............
Ozpushies! for ALL Australian made bikes.
"It's only original once"

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Derny Driver
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Derny Driver » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:27 pm

I can tell you about George Bismire and his bikes. My dad was his friend. I have my dads Bismire track bike. Message me on here or email me at arnoldcycling@gmail.com

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hiflange
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby hiflange » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:35 pm

Share with us all! :-)

cludence
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby cludence » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:57 pm

Some pics would be great. George was a great builder. I havent been on here for sometime, busy with work and family. Ill try and catch up more often.

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Derny Driver
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Derny Driver » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:09 pm

RobertFrith wrote:Share with us all! :-)
Well George Bismire was one of 3 great mentors in my dads life. My dad's father died when he was 6 years old ... eventually my dad and his brothers got into the bike racing business and were looked after by a wonderful guy called Don Blackman. Don built bikes under the Blackbird name and my dad and his brothers were all given Blackbirds by this wonderful man Don Blackman who took it on himself to be a father figure to these kids. Don's shop was on Liverpool Rd Ashfield and my dad and his brothers raced with Ashfield. My dad's Blackbird bike has long gone and I would love to find one. I have seen a couple at the bike show owned by one of the forum members here.
My dad never forgot Don Blackman but the next man he came across was George Bismire who owned Bismire Cycles in Campsie. George was a hugely respected man in cycling circles and was a coach to many of the great riders of the early 40's, most notably Alf Strom who was the NSW road champion in those days. Alf famously took fastest time 3 years in succession in the iconic Goulburn to Sydney road race, in 1937, 38 and 41 (it wasnt held in 1939 or 40). Strommy was a weapon who eventually teamed up with one of my uncles who was the NSW State Track champion, and the pair went overseas and became the world famous Six-day race pair Strom and Arnold, winning 8 sixes as a pairing and the 1952 European madison championship. (I have written a book about all this called 'SixDayMan').
In 1943 George from the Campsie club and my dad and his mates from the Ashfield club, along with several other clubs, broke away from the official cycling union to form a breakaway association. George was influential in this rebellion which resulted in improved racing in NSW at that time. Somewhere along the way my dad acquired a Bismire track bike which has remained in our family ( I have it at the moment) and is in remarkably good condition. Like Don Blackman, George Bismire was a great human being and my dad always spoke very highly of him.
The third piece of my dad's puzzle comes in the form of a man by the name of Ron Bates. My dad and Ron became great mates in later years when my dad was in the mighty St George club. Ron was building bikes out of Hurstville called Royal Star and all the great St George riders had them. My dad rode Royal Stars later in his cycling life but unfortunately for my family, gave them away when he stopped racing. I have just this week been fortunate to be able to buy a nice Royal Star road bike which I will build up in memory of my dad who passed away aged 94 just last February.
Dad would have been able to tell us all the missing details about George Bismire, his bikes and his business. Unfortunately thats about all I can remember at the moment.
With my Dad's passing I am really quite emotionally attached to his bikes. I have his Bismire and his Cinelli road bike, his last good race bike which my uncle brought back to Australia from the Rome Olympics in 1960. I have a Royal Star now as well which I am excited about. So these brands of bikes - Blackbird, Bismire, Royal Star mean a great deal to me emotionally, as they are a link to my dad who I miss very much. To other people - well they are just little known bikes of little value.
To our friend who posted the question - if that bike reminds you of your grandfather, if it means something then keep it. Keep it in your family. If you intend to throw it away or sell it, please consider contacting me as I would love to have the opportunity to put it with these other bikes I have. My family is a famous cycling family, bikes and bike racing is our life, and it would be well looked after.
Cheers
Marcus Arnold

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hiflange
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby hiflange » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:22 pm

Great read, thank you :-)
One of the WAHCC club members has a Blackbird, very pretty bike with cane rims. It's a long way from home though.. bike do seem to get around.

mitchbike
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby mitchbike » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:23 pm

As promised (sorry it's taken a little longer than expected), here are some pictures.

The bike is going to be retired from actual use, and restored as much as possible before becomming a showpiece on a wall.

Left and Right side in all it's glory.
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Seat
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Gear Assembly
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Original Olympic Grand Prix Tyre - It also has the original brake pads on it!
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Handlebar and Bell - The bell is the ONLY non working component
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The artwork on the bike is in remarkable condition for it's age
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This is the original tool bag that came with the bike. All still in great condition.

Bottom right are the tools to pry the tyres from the rim.
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Replacement Sprocket gears, spanners, screwdrivers. Replacement valves and brakes are in the tin.
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Original clamp to hold patches on whilst waiting for them to stick. Also an original replacement brake cable.
Finally an original heat patch tin containing a heat patch. These were used by roughing up the area, and melting the patch with a candle.

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The original bag.
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Full sized images can bee viewed here:
https://image.ibb.co/hHb9Za/RIMAG0908.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/jA6MfF/RIMAG0909.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/nnjUZa/RIMAG0910.jpg
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https://image.ibb.co/hLrbEa/RIMAG0912.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/c22cLF/RIMAG0913.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/ei6REa/RIMAG0898.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gU08Sv/RIMAG0899.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/d99P0F/RIMAG0900.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/ndVa7v/RIMAG0901.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/h5jeZa/RIMAG0902.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/gZwREa/RIMAG0903.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/cpJj0F/RIMAG0904.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/jLvmEa/RIMAG0905.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/bO8HLF/RIMAG0906.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/mhnoSv/RIMAG0907.jpg

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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby cludence » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:22 pm

Wow stunning. Love the bag too.

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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Clydesdale Scot » Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:42 am

mitchbike wrote: The bike is going to be retired from actual use, and restored as much as possible before becoming a showpiece on a wall.
Excellent decision.
Firstly I would encourage you to proceed slowly. When you write "restored as much as possible" what did you mean?
was it to disassemble, clean, treat for rust, wax and reassemble?
There are a few here who can offer guidance if that is the way you want to go. Step one is to apply some penetrating fluid onto every bolt, nut and screw. Then reapply again in a few more days. Then again in a few more days. Check to see if any are free and then retreat again those that are still 'frozen'. Take your time. I use Penetrene.


Also take some more photos before you do anything, outside in daylight but not with any direct sunlight (reduces shadows) with the flash off.

The vulcanising patches had their own heat source. Demonstrated here Far more fun as a kid than using glue.

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MichaelB
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby MichaelB » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:03 am

Clydesdale Scot wrote:
The vulcanising patches had their own heat source. Demonstrated here Far more fun as a kid than using glue.
Used to love using them :D

Greta bit of history there, especially with all the bits & bobs.

Any Bismire family members around any more ?

mitchbike
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby mitchbike » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:29 pm

Clydesdale Scot wrote:
mitchbike wrote: The bike is going to be retired from actual use, and restored as much as possible before becoming a showpiece on a wall.
Excellent decision.
Firstly I would encourage you to proceed slowly. When you write "restored as much as possible" what did you mean?
was it to disassemble, clean, treat for rust, wax and reassemble?
There are a few here who can offer guidance if that is the way you want to go. Step one is to apply some penetrating fluid onto every bolt, nut and screw. Then reapply again in a few more days. Then again in a few more days. Check to see if any are free and then retreat again those that are still 'frozen'. Take your time. I use Penetrene.

Also take some more photos before you do anything, outside in daylight but not with any direct sunlight (reduces shadows) with the flash off.

The vulcanising patches had their own heat source. Demonstrated here Far more fun as a kid than using glue.
Thanks for the information.

Sorry all I thought I'd updated with another post.

The bike was my grandfathers brothers. He passed away some time ago, but his son (grandpa nephew) keeps in contact. Recently he called up and my grandfather advised him he was moving out of home and had the bike. Grandpas nephew asked if he was able to have the bike as he didn't have much from his father.

So he's going to give the bike a good home (staying in the family), and restore it (not sure to what degree - maying just clean it up), and then hang it on a wall as a memento of his father.

That vulcanising patch is amazing!

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Derny Driver
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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby Derny Driver » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:25 pm

From the look of the components and mudguards this bike was more of a daily commuter rather than a race bike. My dad always had a bike set up with mudguards and lights for training and riding to work, in addition to his race bike.
From memory dad's commuter was a Durban (Sutherland) and his race bike a Royal Star (Hurstville).
I will post photos of dad's Bismire track racing bike as a soon as I get a chance. It has the nice detailed graphics like this one has.

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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby petrabismire » Thu Sep 05, 2024 8:37 am

MichaelB wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:03 am
Clydesdale Scot wrote:
The vulcanising patches had their own heat source. Demonstrated here Far more fun as a kid than using glue.
Used to love using them :D

Greta bit of history there, especially with all the bits & bobs.

Any Bismire family members around any more ?
There's a few of us Bismire family members around! My brother found this thread and I wanted to log-in to thank those who shared photos and stories. We had no idea of the family history of Bismire bikes and are very happy to know there's still some bikes out and about in the world. I am a keen cyclist myself, cycle-touring and bikepacking mainly. I cycled Bogota to Cusco on a handbuilt bike (an American bike builder Mone) in 2021, so funny to know there's a long history. I recently had a daughter and gave her my surname so she will definitely grow up knowing her cycling heritage. Would obviously be very interested in owning one, so if anyone is ever looking to sell, please get in touch.

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Re: 1943/1944 Bismire Bike

Postby cludence » Thu Sep 05, 2024 10:33 am

welcome to the page. Love how cycling is all through your family. What area are you in? Will help in case anyone is interested is selling one.

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