Smart trainers and software

[Mr Purple]

Given to me the sole purpose of indoor training is to do better outdoors I must say that swapping to 80-90km per week on Fulgaz as opposed to the same on Zwift has done much better for me.

Simply because 90km on Zwift is about two hours. 90km on Fulgaz is at least three. The physics are just completely wrong on Zwift.

I used to hate looking at race results on Zwiftpower to find out I was not only the lightest racer in the event, I also had the highest average power (overall, not W/kg). And yet I was getting routinely stomped by 80kg riders averaging 220W. I suspect this was largely racecraft - and the fact the draft back then was so ridiculous you could pootle along at 3W/kg and put in your 1500W sprint for 10 seconds to win it. Not entirely sure they've fixed this but I've heard there have been measures taken.

Mind you I suspect that's how a lot of IRL crits are won anyway!

[g-boaf]

Not entirely sure they've fixed this but I've heard there have been measures taken.

The draft mechanics weren't changed completely (ie, reduce it), instead I think they gave a slightly higher draft amount but then put in autobraking so that unless you are doing a certain amount of power more than the rider ahead, you get stuck to that rider ahead and unable to pass unless you put out a huge amount of power. Similar to the old sticky draft.

Which of course affects light riders much more than the heavier ones. That's all murky and any time you bring up that subject there is a raging argument with the folks who don't want any changes trying to deflect.

But that's okay, you just apparently have to learn how to get around the system.

Meh, stuff that - I just figured I'd go elsewhere and get rid of Zwift.

You even get D grade racers in Zwift trying to comment on criticisms of the pace mechanics in the A grade robopacer groups... Ah, do you even ride with that group?

[Mr Purple]

Yep, a quick descent down the Zwift forum rabbit hole has convinced me to stay on Fulgaz.

From what I can see the heavy riders are all complaining the light riders have an advantage because they can go uphill faster. And the light riders are all complaining every other single mechanic in the game favours the heavier riders (downhill, drafting, grade classification, terrain).

I personally think the focus on W/kg is the major issue. Why classify everyone based on W/kg if you then structure all the events to favour the heavier, more powerful riders? The downhill drafting is completely broken in particular - not sure how they work the algorithm but I was never a fan of having to push 5-6W/kg to stick with a group that was literally coasting.

That's generally one of the problems with all virtual apps (Fulgaz as well). Downhills rely purely on physics and don't allow for the fact us lighter climbers are often also faster descenders because a) we can get into a more aerodynamic position because we're fit and small, and b) if you climb a lot, you descend a lot, so get better at descending. To be fair it's not actually really at all possible to allow for those facts virtually.

[g-boaf]

That's generally one of the problems with all virtual apps (Fulgaz as well). Downhills rely purely on physics and don't allow for the fact us lighter climbers are often also faster descenders because a) we can get into a more aerodynamic position because we're fit and small, and b) if you climb a lot, you descend a lot, so get better at descending. To be fair it's not actually really at all possible to allow for those facts virtually.

I suppose no way to solve that, because you don't get virtual descending techniques. Us lighter folk also have a benefit on the big descents that we stop more easily than those big guys. I rode with a guy who used to be in one of the US armed services last year who was very fit and very strong, but also enormously tall (and muscular). So there would have been 110-120kg of him.

To quote him chatting to someone else, "bro, I'm bigger than you lot so I don't stop that fast" as for why he was slowing down earlier for the corners. Consider in mind the descents were like 10-12% downhill so even at my weight I could get rolling damn fast, faster than I really wanted to go.

He is really cool person - just genuinely nice to everyone and so positive.

https://www.hauteroute.org/images/uploa ... 086_BD.jpg

[Arbuckle23]

I raced on Zwift during Covid when we couldn't race outside.
Haven't bothered since.
Fulgaz for now, although far from perfect.
Did a loop ride tonight and Fulgaz App said I did 2 laps, but it only uploaded the first lap to Strava.

[Mr Purple]

I raced on Zwift during Covid when we couldn't race outside.
Haven't bothered since.
Fulgaz for now, although far from perfect.
Did a loop ride tonight and Fulgaz App said I did 2 laps, but it only uploaded the first lap to Strava.

This is a recognised software issue with Fulgaz - the solution is as below.

Fulgaz Strava Loops - fix
If you have a loop ride and end the ride shortly after starting a new loop the results in Strava are not loaded correctly
To fix
Go to Strava and open the ride
Press on 3 dots on LHS
It opens a menu
Select "Correct distance"
It fixes automatically
Case in point for me one Canberra Loop + 10metres showed in Strava as a 10metre ride that took 2 hours

Fulgaz used my 'Mt Gravatt' filming as the weekly challenge for this week (now accessible from the start menu). It was interesting to see the results! I rode an almost matching loop IRL on Sunday with 8:41/258W, and backed up with the virtual version today with 7:27/308W. Though there was technically about 10m difference between the two.

Turns out I can hold down more power on the virtual descent. Strange that! No-one's managed to beat the original filming time for the climb yet (6:31/302W) so feel free to have a shot.

[Arbuckle23]

This is a recognised software issue with Fulgaz - the solution is as below.

Fulgaz Strava Loops - fix
If you have a loop ride and end the ride shortly after starting a new loop the results in Strava are not loaded correctly
To fix
Go to Strava and open the ride
Press on 3 dots on LHS
It opens a menu
Select "Correct distance"
It fixes automatically
Case in point for me one Canberra Loop + 10metres showed in Strava as a 10metre ride that took 2 hours

Thanks for that. I normally only use the phone app day to day.
Onto the computer and sorted

[g-boaf]

Just tried a workout on Fulgaz.

Very impressed how accurately it controls the resistance. And also no changes when the virtual road goes up or down. Unlike in Zwift.

Also good it doesn’t give you elevation (Zwift does, but shouldn’t).

[g-boaf]

Zwift hits another own-goal:

https://forums.zwift.com/t/streak-and-x ... 628069/561

They've seemingly messed with the experience points needed per level again. Lots of people not happy.

[Mr Purple]

'Vale of Aylesbury' as the Fulgaz Weekly Challenge this week - 16.38km/200m. Happy to take another minute out of the bunch with 285W NP for 27:24.

Annoyingly lost both the KOMs in the course this week - simply because the first requires a change on the FD for me as it levels out, and is almost entirely on the 2x limiter otherwise. So I inevitably lost a second to the smart bikes. The second had a decent downhill segment which just spins out my big ring.

Having said that I have a 7 minute lead in the GC after stage 4 which no-one's going to get close to so I'll take that!

Starting to look at Smart bikes now. Think my preference is for the basic Kickr Bike although the Tacx T8000 is $3500 (down from $5500) at Pushys this week. Tempted, but most of my other stuff is Wahoo.

[g-boaf]

Kickr bike better than the Tacx one. Safer purchase.

[jasonc]

Kickr bike better than the Tacx one. Safer purchase.

agree with this. everything I have is garmin. shane miller (gplama) reviewed the tacx bike and wasn't a fan. i have the wahoo kickr shift. am happy

[Mr Purple]

Yep, my thought as well. The Tacx just looks too complicated, and I find Garmin software much fussier.

Current actual retail price for the Kickr Shift seems to be $4k. I'm just hanging for a 10-20% discount. Might be waiting a while.

[g-boaf]

With anything expensive like that, go for whatever is having the most sales and has solid support in place.

Less chance of being stuck with something that becomes unsupported.

[vbplease]

although the Tacx T8000 is $3500 (down from $5500) at Pushys this week.

That's the one I had.. and recently returned it for a refund. Unfortunately they couldn't resolve a common problem being a loose crank arm, which would cause a reoccurring rattle inside the machine. Their solution was to send out a plastic tool to tighten the crank, which required an allen key to maneuver the plastic tool.. resulting in the plastic tool being stripped each time. I probably could have lived with it, had they sent me a metal tool that wouldn't get stripped, and I tighten it up every few months.

I'm still without an indoor trainer, and not missing one.. although if I get another one it would be the Kickr shift.

I think there's one scenario where the Tacx still trumps the other smart bikes, and that's if your pain cave happens to be in the main living room. The bike can operate without a power source, so you can set it up anywhere.. I think its not too bad looking and the boss agreed, so it only had to get wheeled out of the way for kids parties etc.

[jasonc]

I think there's one scenario where the Tacx still trumps the other smart bikes, and that's if your pain cave happens to be in the main living room. The bike can operate without a power source, so you can set it up anywhere.. I think its not too bad looking and the boss agreed, so it only had to get wheeled out of the way for kids parties etc.

I recently bought the kickr direct connect. the laptop I used has a wired ethernet connection (via USB-C). so i'm going to have 2 cables, plus fans, plus a power cable for the laptop, as a minimum. then i have my screen, my radio, my other fans.....

[g-boaf]

I kind of remember that it's important to not run the Tacx trainers (like Neo 1, etc) all the time without power as they can overheat.

I also found sometimes they wouldn't connect to apps without power connected.

[Mr Purple]

Definitely sounds like the TACX T8000 is not worth it, thanks! I'll hang out for a Wahoo special.

In the meantime my GoPro12 arrived so does anyone want anything around Brisbane on Fulgaz?

I've got a few in mind - including a bunch of variations on the 'Mondo' loop which all include some variant of Gap Creek and Cootha. The conventional 'Mondo' is 25km/800m, there's a 'Reverse' version which is the similar but steeper and a couple of gravel variants - 'Dirty Mondo' is a particular shocker with a gravel Cootha front, nasty descent, solid climb up South Boundary Road and then back through Gold Creek and the Gap Creek fire trails. Probably 1000m all up.

Time to hurt some people on the internet!

[Mr Purple]

Timely smart bike discussion is timely.

Has anyone had experience with breaking a Kickr Core in half? Asking for a friend...

https://dgtzuqphqg23d.cloudfront.net/TT ... 6x2048.jpg



Anyway, something was going to give at some stage - it had about 25,000km on it.

Just sent a message to Wahoo, mainly to see if they'll give me a discount on a Kickr Shift.

At least I took one final KOM in that ride. And wasn't too far into the second 9.1%/3.2km climb I was planning to take. It just sort of gently eased into the mat, nothing too scary!

[Arbuckle23]

You can probably fix that with some steel tubing.
Be heavier/stronger than the original I think

[jasonc]

I can't wait till they try and blame your weight Mr Purple

I did a pushys order a couple of weeks ago. I added the kickr direc connect module. I haven't noticed any difference. I've less thing on wifi is always good

[Mr Purple]

No point fixing it, it's four years old, pretty rattly and if I didn't kill the trainer I was going to kill another trainer bike again soon anyway.

A friend reckons I should tell them a Valiant almost ran me over because of it. The Valiant that hasn't moved under its own power for a decade!

[warthog1]

Wow! Mine has not as many k's.
I am heavier so will have a look at mine.
Might have to get on the sh it boring thing today, as it is wet.

[Mr Purple]

Wow! Mine has not as many k's.
I am heavier so will have a look at mine.
Might have to get on the sh it boring thing today, as it is wet.

I don't think there would have been any warning you could see on inspection. It just sort of let go.

I was 19km into a 49km/1200m ride at the time and pushing about 350W up a 9.1% climb. It just sort of felt a bit 'squishy' and then eased gently into the mat. Nothing dramatic at least!

[g-boaf]

Timely smart bike discussion is timely.

Has anyone had experience with breaking a Kickr Core in half? Asking for a friend...

https://dgtzuqphqg23d.cloudfront.net/TT ... 6x2048.jpg



Anyway, something was going to give at some stage - it had about 25,000km on it.

Just sent a message to Wahoo, mainly to see if they'll give me a discount on a Kickr Shift.

At least I took one final KOM in that ride. And wasn't too far into the second 9.1%/3.2km climb I was planning to take. It just sort of gently eased into the mat, nothing too scary!

Too much power!!

Never seen one do that. The Tacx neo is a much more solid unit however in terms of the construction and base. Your failure probably a random one.