On the risks of oversized (and jacked up) vehicles.

[jules21]

believe it or not I used to work in vehicle research a bit. this is a well studied topic. these vehicles are indeed deadly for occupants of lower vehicles (i.e. cars). they override the floor pan in a side impact and the bonnet in a head on collision. it's also why their owners love them - they are purchasing safety from other road users.

it doesn't make heaps of difference to cyclists. we are vulnerable to all motor vehicle types. perhaps relatively more so to these vehicles, but the scales are tipped more drastically for car occupants - who may be well protected in a collision with another car, but get sliced into pieces by these giants.

[WyvernRH]

I was crossing a single lane bridge with the fog line painted on either side and the lane control wanted to throw me from side to side whilst crossing it. Can you imagine a learner driver in that situation and that starts happening, yeah that's a safety feature that I want.

Foo

You can switch the lane control off you know (and I do...), at least on any vehicle I've driven in the past few years.
Trouble is on most vehicles you have to switch it off every time you start the engine. Tho not on my new Suzuki Jimny I was pleased to find out - the lane control stays off permanently once switched off.
Most of the other 'advisory' crap can be switched off or silenced as well if you drill down in the car's menu system.

Richard

[fat and old]

Tho not on my new Suzuki Jimny

At last! A Jimny owner!! I must know, what's the road noise like on the open road at cruising speed?

[Mr Purple]

I hate SUVs with a passion but Jimny's are awesome!

I once tried to buy a new one (I was driving a $1500 Nissan Laurel Turbo Medalist daily at the time) and lasted about 5 minutes on the test drive with the ride quality, lack of power and road noise, gave up and took it back.

However for the right use case scenario (say you lived on a beach) I'd have one in an instant. They're hilarious!

[fat and old]

For my wife, she's fixated on them, especially the frog. Coming from a Mazda2 daily driver, she's sick of being at truck tyre height but the road noise is a concern for me with her tinnitus.

Damn truck drivers making money at the expense of my wife's safety.

[warthog1]

I hate cities with a passion. So much better away from them and away from the crowding and congestation.
I have an SUV to get to out of the way places. Get out of the cities and so much of our road network is unsealed. Yep you can get around in a 2wd car for much of it. You can also rip the undercarriage out and get stuck when it rains. Give me the Patrol over the Swift anyday for dirt. Bought it when we lived in Alice and it is well suited to the road network up that way.
There are those in the cities using them impractically. I don't know all the tasks they use them for however. Much better to tow with and maybe they use them to get the hell away from the city on the weekend. I sure would.

[jules21]

There are those in the cities using them impractically. I don't know all the tasks they use them for however. Much better to tow with and maybe they use them to get the hell away from the city on the weekend. I sure would.

people use them for off-road or towing tasks. occasionally. the question is: do you need to buy such a big vehicle with off-road capability for something you do occasionally? it's not what people in France would do - there's nowhere to park it. but in Australia with more space and a govt offering a 100% tax write off, why not?

[warthog1]

There are those in the cities using them impractically. I don't know all the tasks they use them for however. Much better to tow with and maybe they use them to get the hell away from the city on the weekend. I sure would.

people use them for off-road or towing tasks. occasionally. the question is: do you need to buy such a big vehicle with off-road capability for something you do occasionally? it's not what people in France would do - there's nowhere to park it. but in Australia with more space and a govt offering a 100% tax write off, why not?

Yes the tax write off would have had alot to do with it
I left Melbourne in 1991 haven't lived there since. Bendigo is getting too big at 100k people.
There is alot of dirt roads outside of the city. For something you do occasionally yep, if it is important enough to me, I would and do own a 4wd. I use it to tow and to get firewood and to travel. It tows way better and is very hard to stop in the mud or sand with LSD at the back and mechanical locker in the front diff. It goes to the city if I need to tow. Towed a couple of cars we have bought at the auction back on a car trailer. Being bigger and heavier it does that very easily with plenty of stability.
If I aint towing we go in something else that is more comfortable and easier to park.

[CmdrBiggles]

Yes the tax write off would have had alot to do with it
I left Melbourne in 1991 haven't lived there since. Bendigo is getting too big at 100k people.
There is alot of dirt roads outside of the city. For something you do occasionally yep, if it is important enough to me, I would and do own a 4wd. I use it to tow and to get firewood and to travel. It tows way better and is very hard to stop in the mud or sand with LSD at the back and mechanical locker in the front diff. It goes to the city if I need to tow. Towed a couple of cars we have bought at the auction back on a car trailer. Being bigger and heavier it does that very easily with plenty of stability.
If I aint towing we go in something else that is more comfortable and easier to park.

I've got old-ish, retired frends out at Shelbourne who drive a navy blue Nissan Patrol — it must be more than 30+ years old, yet they still chug around Australia in it towing a van that is much bigger! He doesn't like modern 4WDs, prefers those that are easier for him to fix, for somebody who enjoys living completely off-grid and DIY.

I generally keep a discrete distance from the folk nowadays. They ran a nudist colony at Yandoit for many years (closed down in 2010) and I was, on weekends, the official party photographer. I only travelled with the bare essentials, but got paid well enough.

You really don't want to know the details...

[WyvernRH]

Tho not on my new Suzuki Jimny

At last! A Jimny owner!! I must know, what's the road noise like on the open road at cruising speed?

OK, possibly more relevant on another thread but here goes.

Our Jimny is the 5 door XL manual version. It fits our requirements living in a rural area which are:
- Drive to town/shops 30-50km each way on 'country' tarmac roads.
- Dirt road/Fire trail capable to get us to walking/biking destinations and other interesting places.
We don't do aggressive 4WD stuff (unless forced by circumstance ) and have no intention of going near a beach.
- Can carry two bikes on towbar/roof
- Can carry 4 adults in reasonable comfort and/or carry a reasonable amount of cargo, rear seats down
- Occasional long distance highway trips to visit relatives.
- Not too bloody big! (VERY important!)

It has fulfilled all those aims comfortably tho we've only driven it a couple of hundred km on the highway.
Interior noise is about the same level as the Subaru XV it replaced. Not at all like the older models. As someone who has been in and out of SWB and LWB Landrovers all his life I was pleasantly surprised. Main gripe is lack of cabin stash spots to stick things like sunglasses/hats/gloves whatever.

Great fun and pleasant to drive if you are used to smaller engine cars. If you expect it to be like a 3 litre diesel 4WD or a 2 litre turbo sports car you will be disappointed - it is what it is.

PM me if you want a longer rant

Richard

PS oh yes - the wife thinks it is really cute....
PPS Also, it seems to trigger the MGP syndrome in a lot of 'larger' 4WD owners on country roads, even if you are moving at illegal speeds already.

[warthog1]

I've got old-ish, retired frends out at Shelbourne who drive a navy blue Nissan Patrol — it must be more than 30+ years old, yet they still chug around Australia in it towing a van that is much bigger! He doesn't like modern 4WDs, prefers those that are easier for him to fix, for somebody who enjoys living completely off-grid and DIY.

It would be pretty slow but it'd get there eventually.

[foo on patrol]

I had a Patrol for 14yrs and it was used on and off road I then bought a Triton and had that stolen and now have a new Triton Crew Cab. My fuel economy can vary from 7.2-10l/100km. It is also much quieter than my wifes Mazda 3 but I can put my bikes in the back and anchor them on the fork mounts, stow all of my gear and not need to have stuff in the cab with me. I also use it for towing the trailer to the dump or collecting fire wood if needed and I will be getting a caravan at some point in to future for my tripping around the countryside and be fully off grid setup. It will get taller tyres and a suspension lift before getting a van so that I have that added ability to go even more off grid and enjoy the time exploring, so I may not be flogging around in the bush or beach driving every weekend but if and when I want to, I can.

The Trito also has the ability to engage H 4wd on the highway at speeds up to 100kmh and that there is a huge plus if towing in slippery conditions, whether on asphalt or dirt so it ticks all the boxes for it's intended use and is cheap to run also.

Foo

[CmdrBiggles]

My fuel economy can vary from 7.2-10l/100km.


No! I declare that is too high for my tastes!
I get 3.2 to 4.7L/100km on PULP95 in a SV6 supercharged Commodore wagonwheels (incidentally, previously owned by the Sisters of Mercy in Ballarat: tell me do, what were the nuns doing racing around in a hot chilli red Commodore?? ). The longer Big Re is running at speed on the freeway (e.g. Geelong to Bright or Mount Beauty), the better the economy returned,even with a camping load.

[brumby33]

My fuel economy can vary from 7.2-10l/100km.


No! I declare that is too high for my tastes!
I get 3.2 to 4.7L/100km on PULP95 in a SV6 supercharged Commodore wagonwheels (incidentally, previously owned by the Sisters of Mercy in Ballarat: tell me do, what were the nuns doing racing around in a hot chilli red Commodore?? ). The longer Big Re is running at speed on the freeway (e.g. Geelong to Bright or Mount Beauty), the better the economy returned,even with a camping load.

I'm finding those figures very hard to believe Biggles as a bloke who has often monitored fuel consumption in my cars and trucks since 1977.

My Current car, a 2014 Toyota Corolla Hatch with a 1800cc 4cylinder motor and 6 speed auto trans and I don't drive hard at all, especially with my speedo watching Mrs beside me my average trip on M31 from Albury to Sydney and return is 6.2L/100kms and around town it'll rise to between 7.5 to 8 L/100kms so a Commodore that is so much heavier than my Toyota with a much larger Motor, like about double the capacity size at 3.6lt or is it the 3ltre version (i knew they made a smaller motor in the latter days) I can't believe for 1 minute that it only gets 3.2-4.7, even some Hybrid cars are not matching that figure. Sorry mate...doesn't pass my pub test

[g-boaf]

like about double the capacity size at 3.6lt or is it the 3ltre version (i knew they made a smaller motor in the latter days) I can't believe for 1 minute that it only gets 3.2-4.7, even some Hybrid cars are not matching that figure. Sorry mate...doesn't pass my pub test

With an SIDI 3.6L engine (the later and newer direct injection engine), I see 6.5L/100km averages on motorway conditions. In stop start it's up around 8.5L/100km with careful driving.

Some folk treat every traffic light as a grand-prix race start! And wonder why their fuel economy is out the window. Absolutely no point to race away flat out to the next traffic light or hold up.

Also some of those small turbo engines aren't to be trusted for economy. The manufacturer claims one thing, but real word figures are sometimes quite higher.

[CmdrBiggles]

The figures are not imagined or made up. They have been seen and confirmed by the techs that service the car and have access to all of the running metrics. It is presently sitting on 4.5L/100km. I will be doing a 280km return trip for bushwalking tomorrow. I expect it to hold or better this latest figure.

CONVERSELY—
If I potter Big Red around the 'burbs, the big V6 behaves like any other grump and shoots down economy to 22L/100km!! They H A T E being pottered around in low gears.

I'm due to have its 120,000km service this December (spark plugs out, other tweaks etc.) or sometime in the first 3 months of 2025.

[am50em]

I don't trust the display estimate. Need to record kms and amount of fuel to get accurate consumption.

[Thoglette]

I'm finding those figures very hard to believe Biggles as a bloke who has often monitored fuel consumption in my cars and trucks since 1977.

Weird things happen at 80kph ish on flat roads. It becomes a trade off between air/drag, rolling resistance and motor/gear set up.

We had an ex-cocky 253 HZ with a high speed diff. Couldn’t use top below 80kph but at 100 it got better mileage than our Diahatsu Charade. And wasn’t thrashing itself to death. And the ATO allowed a much bigger per km claim.

The old Nissan Gazelle was similar- 5th was never used around town but made for effortless touring at 110. Slippery shape too. I never did check the mph we got in that so can’t say if sub 5l/100km is doable.

[brumby33]

I don't trust the display estimate. Need to record kms and amount of fuel to get accurate consumption.

Well I think they have to be pretty close to accurate, they are calculated by fuel flow through the computerised fuel management system.
I'm going to do a trip up to Sydney probably in July some time and I'll try to remember to make a log of fuel filled/used and kms travelled to see how it compares to the read outs. The best I've ever gotten on a trip out of the little Corolla is 5.9 but there was a lot of slower driving on that trip due to roadworks and 80kph speed limits but 6.2 L/100kms is average on many trips I've done in almost 10 years of ownership.

[am50em]

On my car the estimated fuel economy is close, within 0.3 l/100km. More useful as real-time feedback for driving style/speed. It is interesting how big the difference is when gaining altitude vs descending on long (and short) drives.

[g-boaf]

my average trip on M31 from Albury to Sydney and return is 6.2L/100kms and around town it'll rise to between 7.5 to 8 L/100kms so a Commodore that is so much heavier than my Toyota with a much larger Motor

I'm guessing the 1.8L Corolla might be out of its normal comfort zone at higher speeds, especially if loaded. The fuel economy I've seen claimed for those is less than what you are getting however.

You'd be surprised that something like a BMW M340i (a potent inline-6 sedan) gets down to 8L/100km as well (in real world testing) - and that is 382hp/500Nm.

[brumby33]

my average trip on M31 from Albury to Sydney and return is 6.2L/100kms and around town it'll rise to between 7.5 to 8 L/100kms so a Commodore that is so much heavier than my Toyota with a much larger Motor

I'm guessing the 1.8L Corolla might be out of its normal comfort zone at higher speeds, especially if loaded. The fuel economy I've seen claimed for those is less than what you are getting however.

You'd be surprised that something like a BMW M340i (a potent inline-6 sedan) gets down to 8L/100km as well (in real world testing) - and that is 382hp/500Nm.

It doesn't appear stressed or out of it's comfort zone, at motorway speeds of 110kph, it's sitting on 2200 -2300 in top with the economy light in green on the dash irrespective of how much stuff we have. There's on my wife and I so we only need stuff for 2 of us on a trip.
I'm hoping my next car will be just a tad bigger so I can slot my bike in the back, it's just a little bit short with both back seats folded down. The Corolla hasn't even done 70,000kms on it yet and it's about to hit 10 year old. It's been a great little car.

[jules21]

it's not unusual for a bigger vehicle with a bigger engine to have good fuel economy at highway speeds. there are 2 major factors that affect a vehicle's fuel economy:
1. vehicle mass - only when climbing hills and accelerating.
2. aggressiveness - if you use your BMW's 380hp to accelerate, the economy will be much reduced as it pours fuel into the cylinders, abandoning the highly calibrated mixtures injected at lower throttle opening values.

if you're cruising along a flat road at a constant speed, a bigger engine and vehicle isn't penalised much and will have similar economy to a smaller car and engine.

[Mr Purple]

You'd be surprised that something like a BMW M340i (a potent inline-6 sedan) gets down to 8L/100km as well (in real world testing) - and that is 382hp/500Nm.

My M140i (very similar engine) gets 9L/100km being used solely in city traffic. 340hp/500Nm. And that's with the manual (worse economy) being used properly. Loads of torque, flat torque curve, no need to rev beyond 3000rpm if you don't want to.

It has an 'economy' mode which will presumably give even better fuel economy. I never use it because it makes the car feel broken.

[g-boaf]

You'd be surprised that something like a BMW M340i (a potent inline-6 sedan) gets down to 8L/100km as well (in real world testing) - and that is 382hp/500Nm.

My M140i (very similar engine) gets 9L/100km being used solely in city traffic. 340hp/500Nm. And that's with the manual (worse economy) being used properly. Loads of torque, flat torque curve, no need to rev beyond 3000rpm if you don't want to.

It has an 'economy' mode which will presumably give even better fuel economy. I never use it because it makes the car feel broken.

Would be interesting to use it to see exactly what improvements it delivers.

The modern BMW engines (the V12 excluded - which is an older unit) are really efficient. The diesel six cylinder units are amazing, powerful, quiet, smooth and very, very fuel efficient. Even the Police with their 530d sedans are seeing amazing fuel economy, even given the way they drive.