War on cars
- g-boaf
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Re: War on cars
Postby g-boaf » Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:47 am
What if SUVs and the big pickup trucks had mandatory lower speed limits than cars - because of their size and weight?
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Re: War on cars
Postby Mr Purple » Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:00 pm
My theory is that it isn't so much 'speed kills' as 'momentum kills'.g-boaf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 09, 2024 10:47 amhttps://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/tru ... 5ji0r.html
What if SUVs and the big pickup trucks had mandatory lower speed limits than cars - because of their size and weight?
So if you choose to drive a vehicle twice as heavy as the average your speeding fines should be twice as much.
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Re: War on cars
Postby am50em » Mon Jun 10, 2024 1:20 pm
So fines should go at squared power of the speed above the limit.
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Re: War on cars
Postby Thoglette » Mon Jun 10, 2024 2:39 pm
Multiplied by the mass. And the “day-fine”: an individual’s daily income (or nominal return on net worth).
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Re: War on cars
Postby mikesbytes » Mon Jun 10, 2024 4:34 pm
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Re: War on cars
Postby DavidS » Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pm
Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.
DS
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Re: War on cars
Postby elantra » Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:47 pm
Absolutely.DavidS wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pmThese all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.
Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.
DS
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2
Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.
Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???
You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 7:51 am
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:17 am
30 years ago, 1994. That was pretty much the start of the swing to D/C 4wd utes with the Hilux fourunner and SR5 models. Of course, both Ford and Holden had utes that were extremely desirable to tradies, the Falcons and one tonners with the ubiquitous HZ Statesman front end, both with stonking V8's and live axles. The civil scene was dominated by landcruisers and patrols, the L/C Bundera was a popular toy. The well to do contractor had a Jeep Cherokee with V8 power. Panel vans were dead, and the Hiace van was the pic of sparkies and plumbers, the newer Merc vans were the mark of a well earning sparkie. By 1998 (26 years ago) I was in my third hilux, first dual cab. This was the one (3litre) that really saw the market take off. By that stage dealerships started to pay attention to hivis clothing when we walked in the door. In 1992 I went up to 25 minutes being ignored when I bought the VR Commodore! The full fruit 4wd's started when a few wholesalers saw an opportunity and started having Chinese copied gear brought in, maybe around 2005-7? Until then you'd have to go to ARB, ORS or TJM if you were not as well off and that stuff was not (and still isn't) cheap. When Ironman opened the doors we started seeing all of the dressed up units we see now.elantra wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:47 pmAbsolutely.DavidS wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pmThese all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.
Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.
DS
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2
Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.
Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???
You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.
There's always been fancy tradie cars of some sort or another. There's always been hate on those tradies. I've come to realise that it's very hard for some people to accept that a dirty working man can have a fancy looking toy that costs a bomb. Yes, in a lot of cases they're over the top, impractical around town and offensive to some. So what? Should we accept the ridicule of those who see 10-15k on a bicycle as stupid?
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Re: War on cars
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 9:27 am
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Re: War on cars
Postby Mr Purple » Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:26 am
And they're all like that now. It used to be if you bought a base model ute (Hilux etc.) it was at a car level. Now even the 2WD base models are jacked up to the sky so they look like the 4WD version.
I gather it's fashion and the lower ones don't sell, but have you ever tried putting a Valiant diff in a current model 2WD rental Mitsubishi Triton on your own as a 61kg climber? It's so much easier not having to lift it an extra half metre into the sky.
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:47 am
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Re: War on cars
Postby Mr Purple » Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:13 am
Tray.
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:19 pm
Dude!!! Of course it was high, it was a tray. Nothing to do with fashion, it's all about carrying capacity and practicality (both for the hirer and hire company) in a hire spec. Next time hire a tub, at last 200mm lower, maybe more! Or think outside the square. An old Val diff will fit in a hiace van. Nice and low.Mr Purple wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:13 amTray.
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Re: War on cars
Postby Mr Purple » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:23 pm
Thanks though, I wasn't aware there was a height difference, though it does make sense with the way it sits on the chassis.
Since then I've just gone with the van instead - much easier. Though last time I got 'upgraded' into a Renault Master instead of a Toyota Hiace. It was hilariously large.
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 12:28 pm
Yeah, a tray spans the width of the vehicle so has to clear the wheels at suspension fully compressed. Tub has wheel arches so the guts are lots lower.
You're the consumer. It's your money, your choice. You used Eurotrash I suppose? Try sixt. We get 2wd's with tubs here, but maybe Qld doesn't have them.
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Re: War on cars
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:19 pm
Doing ok thanks mate. I thought about a Canyon but , there was a wait, unsure how easy to change bar/stem for fit and it was 105 di2. Got a Merida Reacto that was in the local shop for less and with Ultegra di2. Very happyfat and old wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:47 amHow you doin Warty? Did I read you got yourself a canyon hereabouts?
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Re: War on cars
Postby warthog1 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:25 pm
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Re: War on cars
Postby brumby33 » Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:37 pm
Well most Tradies today use their work vehicle as a play vehicle as well, just a matter of chucking the tools in the shed and back up to the Camper etc......how expensive are those vehicles now.....bloody Nora but it's all tax deductible and no fringe benefit taxes on Commercial vehicles, no matter how nice they look, they are still classed as commercial vehicles....but then, there are the You-beaut Television 4x4 shows that these guys get to go out and test awesome gear (lucky buggers) that are sponsored by the advertisers, all the top models, no basic jobs there with all the gear that get their own segments on the show.....and 4x4 camping shows all around the Country these days.......dig the price of caravans and campers today....they need their Dodge Rams and Chevvy Utes to tow their 3.5 tonne glampers but it doesn't end there....oh no...they are getting bigger....a former workmate of mine from Newcastle had recently retired, never owned a house, they (he and wife) just bought and sold Landcruisers and Patrols and optioned them up to the hilt and he was also a 4x4 driver trainer, he has now got his own You tube travelling channel and bought a 2 year old Ram 3500, it's a size where it's restricted under the heavy vehicle rules and must be speed limited to 100kph due to being over 4.2Tonne GVM , it's a Monster truck with a v8 Cummins diesel Donk in it. The van he's got on order is between 3.5t to 4 tonne and will be full time tourers once they get going. The set up will cost around $400K, still much cheaper than any house you can buy these days.fat and old wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 8:17 am30 years ago, 1994. That was pretty much the start of the swing to D/C 4wd utes with the Hilux fourunner and SR5 models. Of course, both Ford and Holden had utes that were extremely desirable to tradies, the Falcons and one tonners with the ubiquitous HZ Statesman front end, both with stonking V8's and live axles. The civil scene was dominated by landcruisers and patrols, the L/C Bundera was a popular toy. The well to do contractor had a Jeep Cherokee with V8 power. Panel vans were dead, and the Hiace van was the pic of sparkies and plumbers, the newer Merc vans were the mark of a well earning sparkie. By 1998 (26 years ago) I was in my third hilux, first dual cab. This was the one (3litre) that really saw the market take off. By that stage dealerships started to pay attention to hivis clothing when we walked in the door. In 1992 I went up to 25 minutes being ignored when I bought the VR Commodore! The full fruit 4wd's started when a few wholesalers saw an opportunity and started having Chinese copied gear brought in, maybe around 2005-7? Until then you'd have to go to ARB, ORS or TJM if you were not as well off and that stuff was not (and still isn't) cheap. When Ironman opened the doors we started seeing all of the dressed up units we see now.elantra wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:47 pmAbsolutely.DavidS wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2024 6:54 pmThese all sound like good ideas, along with an extra parking charge like in Paris.
Those SUVs are getting ridiculous. So large. Since when do we need such large cars? Tradies got around in far smaller cars years ago, can't see any reason they suddenly need trucks. Plus, a hell of a lot of those things are just used as suburban runabouts.
DS
30 years ago the quintessential tradies ute was an orange painted, slightly battered and overloaded ten-year old Datsun or Toyota or Mazda 2-wheel drive 2-litre ute. With skinny tyres and pressed steel wheels, missing a hubcap or 2
Now they are huge all-wheel drive monsters on fancy $$$ alloy wheels with oversize tyres and bullbars, snorkels, winches, etc etc etc.
Great for the school pickups too - the wheels/tyres are so big that you don’t have to worry about how to jump the kerb to park on the footpath without spilling your iced coffee.
Perhaps not coincidental that the monetary value of an average tradies ute has increased from 20 k to 100 k in the same time frame that the median house price has increased from 150 k to 600 k plus
Something to do with Tax policy ???
You’d go mad if you thought too much about the hypocrisy of this “social evolution”.
But what is at stake is the environment, and dare I say that our Aussie fiscal and regulatory bureaucracies should be giving this more consideration.
There's always been fancy tradie cars of some sort or another. There's always been hate on those tradies. I've come to realise that it's very hard for some people to accept that a dirty working man can have a fancy looking toy that costs a bomb. Yes, in a lot of cases they're over the top, impractical around town and offensive to some. So what? Should we accept the ridicule of those who see 10-15k on a bicycle as stupid?
Another mate of mine decided his Landcruiser is too small so he bought a brand new 4 x 4 Isuzu crewcab truck with big tyres, a covered in back (similar to a tradie would have) with heavy duty checker plate base....again limited to 100kph due to it's weight and size, I estimate that vehicle would be around $180K set up then he has one of those Ultimate Campers probably worth 60k.....so these are only 2 lots of people that i personally know, early to mid 60's that don't mind spending up big on lifestyle machines....Still much cheaper than a house and with a set up like those, once your over 60, they'll do you for the rest of your lives....I'm also beginning to think that houses are just something that tie up too much money these days and i'm sick of mowing lawns.
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Re: War on cars
Postby DavidS » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:08 pm
My issue is the ones that drive around town on the school run and do little or nothing else. Plenty of them in the bayside suburbs of Melbourne have never seen a dirt road or towed anything.
DS
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:39 pm
Does your bike have all purpose flat bars or racer style drops?DavidS wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:08 pmI don't have a problem with large SUVs if they are used for towing something big, or needed for a tradie.
My issue is the ones that drive around town on the school run and do little or nothing else. Plenty of them in the bayside suburbs of Melbourne have never seen a dirt road or towed anything.
DS
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:44 pm
Very swish! That stem ….cough cough…..warthog1 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:19 pmDoing ok thanks mate. I thought about a Canyon but , there was a wait, unsure how easy to change bar/stem for fit and it was 105 di2. Got a Merida Reacto that was in the local shop for less and with Ultegra di2. Very happyfat and old wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 10:47 amHow you doin Warty? Did I read you got yourself a canyon hereabouts?
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Re: War on cars
Postby fat and old » Thu Jun 13, 2024 6:50 pm
Have a look at the ads! They claim “you can load a full size Euro pallet in our xyz model blah blah”! Talk about suggestive bollocks. Punters don’t see the Euro, they just see pallet. Just like the dumbass 3.5t towing ability on Navaras and Rangers.
Trays are also less likely to be damaged by Joe hirer than tubs and cheaper to repair.
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