Tougher E-thing laws proposed to deal with e-thing scoff-laws

[mikesbytes]

Even if it was legal to ride the device on public land, rego wouldn’t stop the mods as it’s near impossible to enforce it. Rego hasn’t stopped Harley riders from fitting illegal exhaust systems

[Ivanerrol]

I don't know what further regulation will do because as the article states the e-UC's are already illegal to ride in public spaces and I see them all the time.

Yes, I also thought that story was strange, calling for tighter regulations and rego for something that is already illegal and which cannot be registered anyway. Say What?

And therein lies the problem - you have a bunch of f@#*wits, and I include drongos with suspended licences, suspended sentences etc, freaky adrenalin junkies (like the son mentioned in the article) and moron parents who buy their kids things without checking laws etc - they are often the people buying and using these things, and they completely disregard the current laws or plead ignorance - so tighter regs will do nothing.

I would suggest that probably half of the schoolkids I see using escooters, ebikes & electric motorbikes in Brisbane are illegal - simply because of them being under 16yo - and that is before we even start on the other laws like helmets, speed, multiple occupancy etc - add those in and the number probably jumps to 75% illegal. And the parents plead ignorance - because they couldn't be bothered checking before buying, or monitoring/policing the use of the device by their kids.

An outright ban where you just can't buy them unless you manage to get a fully black market deal (like an illegal firearm) is the only way to stop them and that will never happen because they are (somewhat correctly) viewed as a environmentally friendly transport option.

I think that additional policing of existing laws is required and much more importantly, enforcing the laws with harsh penalties. One strike and you get a fine, second strike you get a VERY heavy fine and third strike you lose the device immediately, no questions asked. And if all three happen at the same time (eg. a 15yo speeding on a path without a helmet), then the above applies - $2000 fine and loss of device. Something like that might slow things down, maybe.

The Police need to setup a task force with staff qualified to check power ratings and top speeds. Laser speed detectors used.
Blitzes on E devices.

Point of sale. There should be a legal certificate written in Big letters advising the device is restricted by speed and power. Should be signed by legal purchaser and seller.
These largish E Bikes such as the Dironi's work out to many thousands of dollars purchase price. Kids aren't paying for these - Parents are

[warthog1]

Even if it was legal to ride the device on public land, rego wouldn’t stop the mods as it’s near impossible to enforce it. Rego hasn’t stopped Harley riders from fitting illegal exhaust systems

Agreed.
So sick of hearing the noisy, agricultural, lister genset, sounding things.

[zebee]

Even if it was legal to ride the device on public land, rego wouldn’t stop the mods as it’s near impossible to enforce it. Rego hasn’t stopped Harley riders from fitting illegal exhaust systems

That's another enforcement failure. There was a time a few years ago when NSW cops were pinging loud bikes and making them get their pipes tested and stamped. But they don't bother now.

ANother problem with enforcing e-bikes is that many of them are modifiable via phone app. So get stopped, fire up your app, re-do your parameters and you pass the test.

The only way really is point of sale and forbid non-compliant imports. Could probably stop the big places like JB HiFi but not buying over the net or small garage shops.

Else you have to spend a heap of cash on enforcement. And add impounding to the law so any bike deemed non-compliant is confiscated. If you have that then it might be effective to have cops with radar guns looking for people not pedalling.

[Scott No Mates]

If you have that then it might be effective to have cops with radar guns looking for people not pedalling.

I'm drafting

[mikesbytes]

Testing motorcycle exhausts didn’t work because they put the original exhausts back on and then get it tested. I’m sure something to the same effect would happen if e-bikes are required to test

[g-boaf]

Even if it was legal to ride the device on public land, rego wouldn’t stop the mods as it’s near impossible to enforce it. Rego hasn’t stopped Harley riders from fitting illegal exhaust systems

That's another enforcement failure. There was a time a few years ago when NSW cops were pinging loud bikes and making them get their pipes tested and stamped. But they don't bother now.

Same with cars, it's up to individuals to complain and report to the EPA and no other way unless a heap of people complain about a particular car to the Police.

It's hard to deal with illegal e-devices. The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

[jasonc]

The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

If I see one personally owned one a week being ridden legally, it's a lot.

[Mr Purple]

The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

If I see one personally owned one a week being ridden legally, it's a lot.

Yes, this.

It's quite easy to ban just the ones being ridden illegally. You just ban them all. I'd estimate less than 1% of the 'big' e-scooters, e-unicycles and e-fat bikes (i.e. motorbikes) I see are actually being ridden legally.

It it were up to me, and as you've suggested in the past, Jason - the standards would be based on the weight and size of the device. Plus I'd also have another requirement based on tyre width for e-bikes. Very rare to see e-bikes with tyres of over about 3 inches width being used legally - because that's motorbike sized. They're motorbikes.

Speaking of which I think I've complained about the dingbat at school pickup riding his 50cc scooter sized 'e-scooter' without plates into the school grounds to pick up his kid. I saw him again on Friday, he literally starts it with a key in an ignition switch. That's a motorbike. Took off through the schoolground doing 30km/hr+.

[Mububban]

Saw a guy on an e-UC just yesterday, he was going down the spiral overpass connecting bridge while I was going on ground level, so didn't see his top speed, but noticed him because he was wearing a full face helmet, elbow guards and knee-to-shin leg guards. Looked like he was competing in downhill mountain biking. I've seen other riders even wearing the motocross-style chest/back armour as well. Better safe than sausage meat I suppose.

Edit - just checked the link and the dead guy was dressed very similarly. Didn't help him apparently.

I suggest that if you are "a single dad with a 6 year old child" then perhaps you need to put aside the adrenaline junkie stuff for a few years...

[Thoglette]

The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

Remember: Anything that gets people (including these clowns) out of their cars’n-trucks is a good thing.

The clowns are much more likely to cause serious damage behind the wheel of a two-ton vehicle tgan on an e-thing.
It’s just not as newsworthy.

[g-boaf]

The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

Remember: Anything that gets people (including these clowns) out of their cars’n-trucks is a good thing.

The clowns are much more likely to cause serious damage behind the wheel of a two-ton vehicle tgan on an e-thing.
It’s just not as newsworthy.

They still cause serious problems when they fly along at 70km/h or more and then knock other people off bicycles, etc. that doesn’t help getting more people to ride bicycles when they are at risk from these folks doing the wrong thing.

[jasonc]

The easy way is to ban the lot, but it makes it hard on those who rely on them to get around.

Remember: Anything that gets people (including these clowns) out of their cars’n-trucks is a good thing.

The clowns are much more likely to cause serious damage behind the wheel of a two-ton vehicle tgan on an e-thing.
It’s just not as newsworthy.

Pedestrians are in the firing line with these things. SOMETIMES cyclists and Pedestrians are in the firing line when on the road. I can hear cars coming. These things are quieter than EVs

[g-boaf]

If I know of them zooming up and down the local cycleway I do warn pedestrians to watch out, particularly the ones with little kids.

Same with the trail bikes. It's not much but they appreciate it.

[hunch]

I can usually hear the fat bike knobby rumble if not too much traffic noise, the no peddle food delivery things seem to have a R/C car like hum.

The local community group here had a sarcastic piece in the local newsletter last week about Council patting itself on the back about getting the NSW govt to put out a pamphlet late last year about road rules for e-devices, while scofflaw behaviour increased.

[Thoglette]

They still cause serious problems when they fly along at 70km/h or more …

I’m not arguing with that. Nor that more policing won’t help. Nor on a ban on the import of grossly non compliant e-things.

However, these same types of people are a whole lot more dangerous behind the wheel of a car. Or worse, a large truck.

Two cyclists hit on a single day on the Nullarbor? Someone dying after driving straight into the back of a stationary bus? Barely cracks the news.

But the evils of scofflaw scooter riders, now that’s worthy of many column inches and much ranting on on the radio.

[g-boaf]

They still cause serious problems when they fly along at 70km/h or more …

I’m not arguing with that. Nor that more policing won’t help. Nor on a ban on the import of grossly non compliant e-things.

However, these same types of people are a whole lot more dangerous behind the wheel of a car. Or worse, a large truck.

Two cyclists hit on a single day on the Nullarbor? Someone dying after driving straight into the back of a stationary bus? Barely cracks the news.

But the evils of scofflaw scooter riders, now that’s worthy of many column inches and much ranting on on the radio.

Different things, and the riders hit on the Nullabor deserves separate attention. I assume you are lobbying the authorities on that equally as you are posting here?

[MichaelB]

...

Two cyclists hit on a single day on the Nullarbor? Someone dying after driving straight into the back of a stationary bus? Barely cracks the news.
...

Sadly, until it is someone in power or famous, or their direct relative will it become anything important.

The example of the cyclists on the Nullabor is a simple, but very sad example of why nothing will change ....

[Thoglette]

I assume you are lobbying the authorities on that equally as you are posting here?

Not as much as I used to: in the last few years my focus has been in other areas. That's at an end, so I'm currently working out what form will be most effective as the old mechanisms (e.g. writing to the paper) are mostly broken. Maybe threadworthy on its own.

(I've been trying to post here less, too. Dunno if it's working.)

[zebee]

I assume you are lobbying the authorities on that equally as you are posting here?

Not as much as I used to: in the last few years my focus has been in other areas. That's at an end, so I'm currently working out what form will be most effective as the old mechanisms (e.g. writing to the paper) are mostly broken. Maybe threadworthy on its own.

(I've been trying to post here less, too. Dunno if it's working.)

I think it has to be multi pronged.

Bike advocacy groups are one avenue as they can have some access to government ministers. Hit or miss that of course as some are better than others. And some ministers are more open than others.

Your local member is always worth a try. A well written real letter is a rare enough thing to be noticed. More than one from different people to several members even more so.

Need a few clickbait stories to dripfeed to what is left of the media. I'm sure you know the sort of thing... Someone either photogenic or pitiable with a sob story or an outrage story.

Also need solutions. Pollies like it a lot better if you can give them something achievable (meaning that does not majorly threaten the private car or rich people walking to the coffee shop, and where enforcement is cheap). The e-thing is complicated by imports being a Federal issue and enforcement being a State one. The Feds would be the ones stopping stuff coming in to the country, so anything like that has to start there.

[human909]

Remember: Anything that gets people (including these clowns) out of their cars’n-trucks is a good thing.

The clowns are much more likely to cause serious damage behind the wheel of a two-ton vehicle tgan on an e-thing.
It’s just not as newsworthy.

100% agree.

Here in Melbourne illegal mobility devices are everywhere, in fact they probably outnumber legal mobility devices. Most of these are delivery e-bikes that don't require pedalling and are over 200W, though there are also plenty of questionable scooters.

But 99.9% of users are just trying to get around efficiently and safely. They normally use the roads. I don't encounter many issues.

The 0.1% of idiots, are better off being idiots on these devices than in cars. It is mostly a people issue not a vehicle issue.

They still cause serious problems when they fly along at 70km/h or more and then knock other people off bicycles, etc. that doesn’t help getting more people to ride bicycles when they are at risk from these folks doing the wrong thing.

Yep. The 0.1%. That same 0.1% likely cause problems as pedestrians too and regularly cause deaths as motorists.

[jasonc]

Bike advocacy groups are one avenue as they can have some access to government ministers. Hit or miss that of course as some are better than others. And some ministers are more open than others.

One of the people that is in/runs multiple Bike advocacy groups up here thinks PMDs are great.

[blizzard]

Bike advocacy groups are one avenue as they can have some access to government ministers. Hit or miss that of course as some are better than others. And some ministers are more open than others.

One of the people that is in/runs multiple Bike advocacy groups up here thinks PMDs are great.

Legal PMDs are great, more people out of cars, more investment in infrastructure but the illegal ones and their knuckle dragging riders ruin it.

[Mr Purple]

One of the people that is in/runs multiple Bike advocacy groups up here thinks PMDs are great.

Yep. I cancelled my membership with them as a result.

It was getting to the point where something like 90% of their social media posts were featuring PMDs. When I looked at their board members last year when I decided to cancel my membership - literally only one of them stated they actually rode bicycles.

Looks like they're had an overhaul since then with some actual cyclists on board. Hopefully that'll sort a few things out.

[jasonc]

Bike advocacy groups are one avenue as they can have some access to government ministers. Hit or miss that of course as some are better than others. And some ministers are more open than others.

One of the people that is in/runs multiple Bike advocacy groups up here thinks PMDs are great.

Legal PMDs are great, more people out of cars, more investment in infrastructure but the illegal ones and their knuckle dragging riders ruin it.

Personally-owned legal/legally ridden PMDs are near non-existent up here. As I have said before, I think I see one legal personally owned PMD a week