Brisbane Valley Rail Trail

[Mr Purple]

And after I pointed out I was getting a little sick of comments against cyclists in posts not actually related to cyclists, this great internet genius pipes up:

read my reasoning why a response was made against "SOME" cyclists, only a small group of arrogance in the community ! Normally the same ones that get upset with my responses!

I'm not making any further comment, I assume he's on a fast track to getting banned from the group. But typical hate speech - 'this wasn't directed at you, and I'm not saying you're in this group, but because you're upset at my generalisation against your group you're clearly guilty'.

Ah, Facebook. The steaming cesspool that it is.

Yeah I saw that post but reframed from commenting on it, because once I do, it's all guns blazing and no prisoners left in my wake.

Foo

I really had to bite my tongue to avoid pointing out that he'd used the phrase 'lycra clad demons' in 'clarifying' that he wasn't talking about all cyclists, that he'd claimed cyclists had caused motorbikes to use the trail, and that I was apparently part of the problem simply because I was critical of him.

It's a bit too much like shooting ducks in a barrel sometimes. Though the old adage about arguing with an idiot applies - they drag you down to their level and then beat you because they're more experienced there. Also 'playing chess with a pigeon' - they kick down the pieces and crap all over the board.

[warthog1]

I really had to bite my tongue to avoid pointing out that he'd used the phrase 'lycra clad demons' in 'clarifying' that he wasn't talking about all cyclists, that he'd claimed cyclists had caused motorbikes to use the trail, and that I was apparently part of the problem simply because I was critical of him.

It's a bit too much like shooting ducks in a barrel sometimes. Though the old adage about arguing with an idiot applies - they drag you down to their level and then beat you because they're more experienced there. Also 'playing chess with a pigeon' - they kick down the pieces and crap all over the board.

That is well said.

[foo on patrol]

Thanks for the confirmation, I have not spent enough time on it for a real informed idea of it Happy not to.
Annoying to hear it is continuing to give idiots a voice.

I pick my moments of firing back but I pull no punches when I do, so that there are no grey areas about what I'm saying.

Foo

Glad you are, but engaging with people who are ill-informed and motivated by bigotry and discriminatory bias, isn't my idea of a fun time.

Foo

[warthog1]

Give it to em mate

[Mr Purple]

More shenanigans in the BVRT User's Facebook group.

Long and ranty post from some woman about how she was on her horse and instructed two cyclists to stop and yet they didn't. All about how cyclists have to be respectful and give way to horses.

Absolutely correct, yes. But she also failed to say (in a massive post) exactly what they were doing wrong, except they didn't follow her instructions. Well, I imagine they weren't giving enough room or something, but it did give the impression she was right in the middle of the trail acting as some official traffic controller and they didn't follow her exact instructions so were at fault.

Hundreds of comments before the thread was deleted. Some blindly in support of the rider, some of the cyclists, plenty of horse-type people pointing out that if her 'flighty' horse wasn't safe around cyclists she maybe shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Anyway, it just reinforced my presumption that when it comes to horse riders on the trailer we're dealing with dangerous, irrational and unpredictable animals, and the horses they're riding. So I'll continue to give them an absolute mile of room including walking the bike and bailing into the bushes if necessary.

Like some pedestrians, they sometimes take the 'you must give way to us' to an illogical extreme. Some consideration on all parts is necessary for that one to work.

[elantra]

More shenanigans in the BVRT User's Facebook group.

Long and ranty post from some woman about how she was on her horse and instructed two cyclists to stop and yet they didn't. All about how cyclists have to be respectful and give way
……..

Oh dear, unbridled use of Social Media is not going to solve anyone’s problems/issues.

I must confess that I don’t know that much about horses, although I did ride a horse on a 100 km event from Abergowrie to Valley of Lagoons (North Qld) in the bicentennary year, 1988
I think it was probably a very mild-mannered horse, specially selected for persons who are more comfortable on bicycles.

I do know that horses can be very temperamental, like humans and other mammalian animals.

A few years ago on a most beautiful day (not like any day recently) I was out riding (bicycle) in the country, between Kyogle and the Qld border.
I dismounted to take a phone call, and was engaged in pleasant conversation while leaning on a timber fence to a horse paddock.
While on the call, a big horse approached me slowly.
I gently put my hand on its long snout and gave it a gentle pat, and the horse got closer.
A minute or 2 later there appeared another horse, and this horse put its head near my hand, presumably because it too wanted a pat.

At which point the first horse turned violently towards it and gave it a huge bite on the rump and chased it away, seemingly to say “go away and find your own human”

So I know how they can be belligerent.
I know that people have been killed or seriously injured by falling from horses and also by being kicked by horses.
Thank goodness the horses don’t use Social Media.
Humans using Social media is bad enough.

[foo on patrol]

I believe all horses if being ridden around the public in public areas, should have been trained in an environment that gets them used to humans and also traffic. Another thing that gives me the irits is the fact they can just as easily move off the trail without any concern about losing control and falling. After all they (the horses) are animals that belong in paddocks, aren't they?

Commonsense is very lacking in many people so the horse riders can move off the path and the bike riders can slow down and move past as near as possible to the edge of the trail but what if you come up behind a horse and want too past them?

Foo

[warthog1]

Have come across horse riders on the O'Keefe rail trail a few times.
I slow down and try to give space. A bit difficult on the rail trail though.
Despite that a few have seemed to have the expectation that it is the rider's responsibility to stop and get off the path so as not to annoy/startle the horse.

Sorry, if that is your expectation then find somewhere else to ride imo.

[foo on patrol]

Have come across horse riders on the O'Keefe rail trail a few times.
I slow down and try to give space. A bit difficult on the rail trail though.
Despite that a few have seemed to have the expectation that it is the rider's responsibility to stop and get off the path so as not to annoy/startle the horse.

Sorry, if that is your expectation then find somewhere else to ride imo.

Yeah, this is the whole problem, skittish horses don't belong in areas where they will come in close contact with people, whether they are cyclists or not. They should be trained properly for social outings.

Foo

[warthog1]

Yeah agreed. Size of the animal doesn't give you the right to exclude others from using the space.

[RonK]

Have come across horse riders on the O'Keefe rail trail a few times.
I slow down and try to give space. A bit difficult on the rail trail though.
Despite that a few have seemed to have the expectation that it is the rider's responsibility to stop and get off the path so as not to annoy/startle the horse.

Sorry, if that is your expectation then find somewhere else to ride imo.

I'm not sure if this regulation applies to the rail trail but it is the law in Qld that you must give way to horses.
Regardless I keep well out of kicking range of any horse I encounter and do nothing that may provoke a kick.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety ... %20do%20so.

[warthog1]

Have come across horse riders on the O'Keefe rail trail a few times.
I slow down and try to give space. A bit difficult on the rail trail though.
Despite that a few have seemed to have the expectation that it is the rider's responsibility to stop and get off the path so as not to annoy/startle the horse.

Sorry, if that is your expectation then find somewhere else to ride imo.

I'm not sure if this regulation applies to the rail trail but it is the law in Qld that you must give way to horses.
Regardless I keep well out of kicking range of any horse I encounter and do nothing that may provoke a kick.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety ... %20do%20so.

I was talking about my experience of horses onnthe O'Keefe rail trail.

You read that piece a lot differently than I. I read it as suggested conduct around a disturbed horse. Not a mandate that all must give way to horses. No penalties and I fail to see how that would be workable.
Despite that being a suggestion on road it seems some of the horse riders on a rail trail have taken that as their expectation of cyclists using a rail trail.

This appears more applicable to a rail trail in Victoria;
CYCLISTS
-Keep left and give way to walkers and horses
-Approach horses with care and notify in advance of your approach
-Warn others when approaching from behind and passing
-Keep left and don’t obstruct the Rail Trail
HORSES
-Ride horses off the bike/walking track unless signage indicates otherwise
-Horses must be ridden at a walking pace when on the track formed for cycling and walking
-Remove horse manure from the bike/walking track
-Horses must not be tied within a 10 metre radius of signage or seat structures
WALKERS
-Keep left and give way to horses on bridges and squeeze points

https://www.greatvictorianrailtrail.com ... f-conduct/

I do all that. I slow and keep to the left.
I aint getting off my bike and retreating into the scrub whenever I see one however, despite that appearing to be the expectation from some horse riders.
I don't see any signage saying horses are permitted on trails, no signage about horses at all. Yes their hooves do damage the track and it appears they are being ridden on the track.
Clear horse sh it off the track? Yeah right, sure they do
Thankfully they aren't a common sight as I guess most people are cognisant of the fact there are better places to ride if your horse is uncomfortable around cyclists.


Had a look here;
https://www.brisbanevalleyrailtrail.com.au/
It appears horses are more common and encouraged on the BVRT given there are horse troughs located there.
Hopefully not too common or it would become a less pleasant place to ride.

[elantra]

Had a look here;
https://www.brisbanevalleyrailtrail.com.au/
It appears horses are more common and encouraged on the BVRT given there are horse troughs located there.
Hopefully not too common or it would become a less pleasant place to ride.

The Northern Rivers Railtrail is the “other” significant Railtrail in this part of Eastern Australia, and has been operating for less than a year.
It is quite different to the BVRT in a few respects, including that horses are prohibited EXCEPT for a few kilometres either side of the township of Burringbar.

I guess that there would have been A LOT of discussion about this decision a year or two ago, and some locals were unhappy about the prohibiting of horses from much of the trail.

But as they say, horses for courses (!), in close proximity to the Northern Rivers Railtrail there are actually lots of firetrails and 4WD tracks in the surrounding hills, most of which can be legally used by horse riding.
And furthermore, only half an hours drive east of Murwillumbah are splendid beaches, some of which are legally accessible for horse riding

So I guess that in this area. horse riders have various options, apart from the gravel surfaced parts of Railtrail

One of my bike-riding acquaintances reckons that some of the local Strava segment KOM’s (gravel bike) are actually taken by expert horse riders

[warthog1]

The Northern Rivers Railtrail is the “other” significant Railtrail in this part of Eastern Australia, and has been operating for less than a year.
It is quite different to the BVRT in a few respects, including that horses are prohibited EXCEPT for a few kilometres either side of the township of Burringbar.

I guess that there would have been A LOT of discussion about this decision a year or two ago, and some locals were unhappy about the prohibiting of horses from much of the trail.

But as they say, horses for courses (!), in close proximity to the Northern Rivers Railtrail there are actually lots of firetrails and 4WD tracks in the surrounding hills, most of which can be legally used by horse riding.
And furthermore, only half an hours drive east of Murwillumbah are splendid beaches, some of which are legally accessible for horse riding

So I guess that in this area. horse riders have various options, apart from the gravel surfaced parts of Railtrail

One of my bike-riding acquaintances reckons that some of the local Strava segment KOM’s (gravel bike) are actually taken by expert horse riders

I would be there a lot more then. Horses aren't that compatible with bicycle traffic it appears to me. I get off the road largely to avoid the danger posed by motorvehicle drivers. No real interest in substituting that with danger to and from horses and their riders.

[RonK]

Had a look here;
https://www.brisbanevalleyrailtrail.com.au/
It appears horses are more common and encouraged on the BVRT given there are horse troughs located there.
Hopefully not too common or it would become a less pleasant place to ride.

Yes I am aware of your location, I am just pointing out that regulations in Qld are different. These are set out in the legislation - I have no idea if they apply to the rail trail however there has recently been a tightening of regulations governing the behaviour of e-scooter riders AND cyclists on footpaths and shared paths.
The BVRT was never intended exclusively as a bicycle path. The SEQ trail horse riders association was one of the driving forces behind its creation and funding, even before the cycling association got on board. It is designated a shared path for equestrians, cyclists and walkers.

[Mr Purple]

One of my bike-riding acquaintances reckons that some of the local Strava segment KOM’s (gravel bike) are actually taken by expert horse riders

I have seen this. There was a gravel event up on the Sunshine Coast I was considering and a few of the steeper segments were held by horses. The event was fast enough they were all taken out though.

Horses definitely have priority on the trail, though you do rarely see them. The few groups I've seen were actually in the grass on the side, and had no issues.

What annoyed me more about this was the 'I directed these cyclists to stop and they didn't' nature of the post. There was no more detail in it about the cyclist's behaviour than that. Were they riding fast, did they not give you enough room, or were you just directing traffic like a mounted policeman, mate? Strangely enough they didn't elaborate.

A recurrent theme on those BVRT Facebook posts. 'We don't like cyclists treating the trail like the TDF'. And yet when it comes to it no-one actually has a story of a fast cyclist actually causing or nearly causing an incident. They just don't like it. As some of the cyclists responding have said 'if a largely empty, flat and wide trail is not the place to ride fast, then where is?'

Some people seem to have the mindset 'if this person is not using the trail for exactly the same reasons I am they shouldn't be on it'. It's bizarre entitlement and a complete lack of empathy.

[Mr Purple]

Had a good run out on the BVRT yesterday and took 10 minutes off the old Brassall-Lowood return record.

Not how much credit I can claim for that, and how much of it is due to smoother track conditions. The first section in particular rides very fast now - previously it was one of the rougher segments. Might try a shot at the southbound E2E record, I believe it stands at 6:02 still, which is about 45 minutes slower than the northbound despite being downhill (all of the races run north). There's a couple of bridges planned which will make that easier. I'm suspecting the trail will become progressively sanitised which takes the adventure out for some people.

Pedestrians as always were a little interesting. A highlight was the group of six who insisted on taking up the whole path and almost forcing me down an embankment to get past. I'd understand if they weren't walking the opposite direction in broad daylight and ignoring multiple bells and calls of 'rider up'. They left me about an inch and then looked aggrieved when I squeaked past at about 5km/hr and had a little word to them about courtesy.

Otherwise I saw literally one car while waiting to cross a road. And he stopped and waved me over. Brilliant stuff!