Gemini Randonneur

[P!N20]

Given the front QR on the drive side, awkward cable routing, chain on the drive side, questionable handlebar position and cranks at some obscure angle, I don’t think it was intentional.

[WyvernRH]

"Shame they didn’t get the rack level for the photo !"
Original Rack on my GWR looks like that, its seems to be what they did

Interesting. I wonder if there was a theory behind it, or whether that's just what the person with the spanner did.
Mine I got as a frame + fork + headset + bottom bracket, so I have no idea what stock looked like

That looks like an alloy Blackburn (or a clone thereof) They came with three (IIRC) sizes as far as the length of the attachment arm lengths and you picked the one that got nearest to level for your frame size. These were solid with no adjustment apart from bending up or down to match your attachment points. Only way to level the rack was to bend a kink into the alloy rack attachment arms to shorten the length slightly - which was a dodgy exercise and gave a point of flex for the rack.
So... most folk just lived with it being slightly out of level. With my wife's 18" framed tourer back in the 80's (trad sizes, no compacts then) the small size tipped slightly forward and the medium lent back like a drunk sailor - so we went with small for her. I use a 'standard' mens' size frame of 22.5" so a medium fitted almost perfectly on the Claud when I upgraded from the previous Karrimor steel rack.

Richard

[Thoglette]

That looks like an alloy Blackburn (or a clone thereof) They came with three (IIRC) sizes as far as the length of the attachment arm lengths and you picked the one that got nearest to level for your frame size.

Ah, that makes sense. We're spoilt for choice these days.

[savvas]

Hi Folks,

Someone on the local 'buy nothing' group gave me a WR the other day. It's bright blue & 56cm - my size - & has the 'Gold Medal' stickers! I rode one of the very earliest versions a few years ago with 26:x1-3/8" wheels & somewhat ornate lugs. Then I had a later green 700c WR that was a bit big for me. Now this one in my size.

The paint is a rather sorry state but the bike seems largely original. It has a replacement rear wheel (nutted rather than QR) & the previous owner replaced the (I presume) Shimano canti brakes with rather fancy alloy ones. It also has a rather narrow road bike seat which I'll ditch.

I'm not sure how I'm going to set it up yet but I've noted a couple of variations from the WRs I've owned before - there are no mid-fork eyelets for a front rack & there's no sticker indication what the bike is made from. Am I correct in remembering that most WRs came with mid-fork eyelets? And does anyone have any idea what this frame would be made from?

Thanks,

Sam.

[Rob74]

Photos may help ID the age
WRT
"And does anyone have any idea what this frame would be made from?"
Take the fork out & examine the steerer tube. It may have Made in Taiwan stamped on it.

Rob

[MO-05]

Trying to identify this Randonneur

Hi friends, I hope someone is still active here.

I'm in the process of restoring this Gemini World Randonneur and was curious as to if anyone knew what year this was from?
(Image is not mine, however is the exact same model).

Thank you


https://imgur.com/a/W5aE6Cd

[familyguy]

Trying to identify this Randonneur

Hi friends, I hope someone is still active here.

I'm in the process of restoring this Gemini World Randonneur and was curious as to if anyone knew what year this was from?
(Image is not mine, however is the exact same model).

Thank you


https://imgur.com/a/W5aE6Cd

A good start point for age, given the likelihood that the parts on it are the originally fitted parts, would be to look for a date code. Shimano and Suntour (the two most likely suppliers for bikes of this era and type) have a two letter stamp somewhere on them (back of the crank arms, front derailleur cage, rear derailleur body or cage, back of the brake arms), like JL or LE and the like.

Then go here to determine the date.
Shimano codes: http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Japan/ ... _codes.htm
Suntour codes: https://velocipede.co.uk/resources/suntour/

This might give you a close year to search by and you might find a catalogue from that year, or even a year or two later, that shows the model, original specs and possibly further info.

Jim

[Rob74]

Have not seen one with Unicrown Forks, suggest 1991 to 1994 .

Rob

[savvas]

OK - I've decided my WR is very similar to Austy37's - he was post # 3 or 4 back at the start of the thread. It has the same mtb-style chain rings & LX crank. Mine doesn't have the green 'Mangalloy' stickers on frame & fork - hence my query regarding what it might be made of. I'll take some pictures when I get a chance.

Interestingly I've realised that the replacement brakes are a rather rare set of Scott Pedersen SE-2000 self energising callipers. I've seen plenty of the Suntour XCPro SE versions but never this one. I suspect they'll be up for sale soon!

Note sure what to do with this bike but I reckon I'll get it up & running with a low rise bar & see how it rides.

Incidentally, Peachy's first post shows his blue WR & subsequent discussion suggested a 650B wheel size. Peachy's, with its more ornate lugs, is I think representative of the first run of WRs & I still have an identical bike in green. To my knowledge WRs have never actually used 650B wheels. What the earliest ones did come with were 650 A wheels, otherwise known as 26x1-3/8" - think old BSA 'Sports Roadster'.

There is only 3mm difference in radius between 650A & 650B wheels (the As are 590 & the Bs are 584) so I can imagine that the brakes works still work ok with a swap to the slightly smaller wheels. In fact this ancient thread has prompted me to give it a go as I have some 650B wheels hanging in the shed (albeit with bike attached!) I actually like the 650A size & think it was well chosen when the first WRs were released. I've read that the designer Noel McFarlane chose the 26&1-3/8" size because back in 1981 it was universally used across Asia & the far east so tyres/tubes were readily available. Historically & until quite recently 650B tyres have been much harder to get hold of.

It's great that WRs are still being discussed here! They are wonderful bikes with a great, home-grown Australian pedigree & it's well worth keeping them on the road. You can read a bit about their origins here: https://viventebikes.com/about-us-2/

[brumby33]

Yep...no more derailer models anymore, I have the 2017 Patagonia with the bar end shifters but Noel moved away from them because Shimano stop making them. But I love the Dura-ace bar ends, easy to use, never been a problem.
The New Vivente World Randonneurs will be made at Noel's farm in Tassie and will be made to order.
All Rolhoff models now with gates belt drives over $6K in a Touring style and trekking style. One with 700C that can take 50mm tyres without guards or 650B with up to 57mm tyres.

Noel spent a lot of time testing out the new creations on the Munda Bindi Trail as well as touring America not that long ago.

Won't be selling mine anytime soon even though I'm still old and decrepit

brumby33

[Dervish]

A GWR showed up on Facebook marketplace during the week that I couldn't resist; I picked it up today from a lovely couple in Temora. It was a one owner bike, he purchased it new from Calypso Cycles in Newtown. I've been eyeing GWRs off for some time but when they do surface, good ones sell quickly. They are also usually the 27" models - which is fine - but not what I wanted for this bike.



It is one of the 26 x 1 3/8" frames, and I just love its enormous headtube and small wheels. It seems to be 58.5cm (23") c-c top tube and 61cm (24") c-c seat tube; about the upper limit for me but still comfortable and it won't need miles of stem sticking out to get there.



It came with a full complement of racks and Bunyip panniers.



I hadn't seen a GWR with this front rack before, so I had assumed it was an aftermarket addition. Luckily some trawling of Warren Salomon's brilliant Freewheeling archives turned up some more gems:





So as far as I can tell the bike is completely untouched, with the exception of the saddle, lighting and mirrors. And yes, I think the Zefal pump is even the one mentioned in the first ad as an optional extra. Incredible.

[baabaa]

Good find and bet they are pleased it has found a home with someone who will enjoy it.

Be keen to see a pic of the bunyips - are they canvas? Is the rear rack a blackburn?
Also had a very similar bike (but a woolys wheels ultimate which was a 26 inch tange infinity frame but more or less the same as a Gemini Randonneur) with that front rack but found the lower wings was too low for panniers on 26 inch and let the bags swing a bit much for me so took off the wings.

Anyway well done and please keep it in more or less the same condition as the specs on bikes from back really did offer good value without the markerting hype of current group sets.
( maybe even send Noel an email with some pics!!)

[Thoglette]

So as far as I can tell the bike is completely untouched, with the exception of the saddle, lighting and mirrors. And yes, I think the Zefal pump is even the one mentioned in the first ad as an optional extra. Incredible.

That it is!

[Dervish]

Good find and bet they are pleased it has found a home with someone who will enjoy it.

Be keen to see a pic of the bunyips - are they canvas? Is the rear rack a blackburn?
Also had a very similar bike (but a woolys wheels ultimate which was a 26 inch tange infinity frame but more or less the same as a Gemini Randonneur) with that front rack but found the lower wings was too low for panniers on 26 inch and let the bags swing a bit much for me so took off the wings.

Anyway well done and please keep it in more or less the same condition as the specs on bikes from back really did offer good value without the markerting hype of current group sets.
( maybe even send Noel an email with some pics!!)

Thanks for the kinds words!

The Bunyips are canvas. They are nicely made and in good nick. I've just given them a wash and I'll give them a hit with some waterproofer to make sure they are back in serviceable condition when they dry. I took some pictures with them on the bike to keep things thread-relevant; the best photos also have my commuting rando bag on.



It's an awful lot of green canvas.





I've set the bike up now with a favourite saddle. In an ideal world I'd have a 90mm stem, but I won't change out the 100mm ALPS one it has (what a nice touch to have an ALPS stem).

The rear rack is either a Blackburn or an identical copy of one; it isn't marked Blackburn which all real Blackburns seem to be - so I suspect it is a copy. If I had to guess I would postulate it was made by Nagaoka who made the front rack as the finish and welds look very consistent.

Just waiting for new tyres to come in now. Schwalbe Marathons were the only tyre worth owning I could find in the right size; they do a 26 x 1 3/8 and a 26 x 1 5/8, but I went for the 1 3/8" as the Marathons I've had before were big for their listed size.

I wouldn't know how to contact Noel, but in checking the Vivente website I noticed that there is a link directly to this thread so I think he'll see it eventually.

[brumby33]

Really nice example Dervish, looks the part with the canvas bags on it as well.

Noel would love that bike looking as good as it does.

I'm in contact with him through his Instagram page, so I can send him a link to this page if you or you can just send him a message through his website. I've got the later Vivente Patagonia which is a 2016/17 model, the very last model with bar-end shifters.

Cheers

brumby33

[baabaa]

It's an awful lot of green canvas.

Fake news!!
Can NEVER have enough green in any biking - have front and rear wilderness equipment in red and summit gear rear in black with two sets of fronts in blue as never been in the right place at the right time to "get me some green".
Yes a good wash and slow dry and they will come good. Canvas is ideal for biking and cactus in NZ are still making quality bike bits out of it - it lasts and lasts and is easy to repair and therefore far more sustainable than most textiles.
If you are thinking of using the bunyips maybe pick up a few of these - never had to use my spares on my WE panniers but I still lug them about just in case one fails out in the never- never
They will fit your racks from the era well- Nylon Lacing Hook
https://www.whitworths.com.au/nylon-lacing-hook-black
You can get metal ones but - rattle - for when you head off on that round the world bike trip which I know your new bike is now telling you that you must do as it is ready to roll......

[plasmapug]

Hi all

I wasn't seeking out a Gemini World Randonneur but rather a simple, older steel bike that I could ride and tinker with. I've ended up with a GWR and I wanted some help in dating and identifying the frame.

There's not much original on this example, even the fork doesn't look original (although I have seen some other GWRs with unicrown forks in this thread), but it rides nicely and fits what I wanted perfectly. From the Freewheeling magazine archives, it's from no earlier than about 1990, where issue 59 mentions GWRs with 700x35c tyres as this example has. The rear hub spacing is 135mm, but again, I don't know if someone has done some cold setting.

Not as nice as Dervish's example above, but does anyone have any ideas on how I'd find details on this frame?

[Dervish]

...

There's not much original on this example, even the fork doesn't look original (although I have seen some other GWRs with unicrown forks in this thread), but it rides nicely and fits what I wanted perfectly. From the Freewheeling magazine archives, it's from no earlier than about 1990, where issue 59 mentions GWRs with 700x35c tyres as this example has. The rear hub spacing is 135mm, but again, I don't know if someone has done some cold setting.

...

Great looking GWR! If I was going to build one up as a commuter that's about exactly what it would look like. Those Velocity rims back from when they were made in Aus are very nice too. I don't think anything that's on the frame would've been original, but I could be wrong. If you look on the bottom of the bottom bracket casting there should be a serial number that will give you a spot to start tracking the production year down. If yours is a Yamaguchi built frame like mine, this thread will let you track down production month/year.

Can NEVER have enough green in any biking - have front and rear wilderness equipment in red and summit gear rear in black with two sets of fronts in blue as never been in the right place at the right time to "get me some green".
Yes a good wash and slow dry and they will come good. Canvas is ideal for biking and cactus in NZ are still making quality bike bits out of it - it lasts and lasts and is easy to repair and therefore far more sustainable than most textiles.
If you are thinking of using the bunyips maybe pick up a few of these - never had to use my spares on my WE panniers but I still lug them about just in case one fails out in the never- never
They will fit your racks from the era well- Nylon Lacing Hook
https://www.whitworths.com.au/nylon-lacing-hook-black
You can get metal ones but - rattle - for when you head off on that round the world bike trip which I know your new bike is now telling you that you must do as it is ready to roll......

Thanks for the info, I did mostly use (all green) canvas before this arrived - so the new additions mean I'm inundated with green canvas bike bags. I am comfortable with this outcome, however The current aluminium hooks on the panniers fit the rack perfectly so I didn't have rattle issues on the test ride, but that's a good thought.

The bike is now ready to roll as I've given it a bit of a service; rebuilt the hubs, rebuilt the pedals, new tyres, new brake pads and given everything a good clean. I took it for a quick 20k today and it is a joy to pilot, with the exception of the hoods being a little uncomfortable with the steel secondary levers sticking out. I've never had a bike with those levers and I thought they'd be horrible, but I think I like them enough for them to stay. Like the twin mirrors, they have a dorky vibe that I quite like for now.



Unfortunately I don't think this bike will be doing any round the world touring any more. I'm sure 26 x 1 3/8" tyres were common in far flung places In 1985, but today I think they're downright hard to get anywhere. I will happily ride it on short multi-day tours near home though, as well as all kinds of day-to-day riding.

Really nice example Dervish, looks the part with the canvas bags on it as well.

Noel would love that bike looking as good as it does.

I'm in contact with him through his Instagram page, so I can send him a link to this page if you or you can just send him a message through his website. I've got the later Vivente Patagonia which is a 2016/17 model, the very last model with bar-end shifters.

Thanks for the kind words Brumby. A Patagonia was on my shortlist a few years ago when I was looking for a new bike, unfortunately supply in my size had just dried up permanently. I have posted a picture on Instagram and tagged @viventebikes in it - I think that will work?

[brumby33]

Yeah you can have your racers, Moutain Bikes and gravellers, give me a well equipped Touring bike any day, chock full with panniers, that's what floats my boat

[Thoglette]

Anyone got a spare set of forks?

Thanks to Aldo at Qantum Bicycles I now have straight forks!

I’d given up on them until Will at Rivbike posted about a repair of an equally mangled fork


Now to rebuild and replace the indexed headset
P.s iiNet/TPG killed all my old images I’ll see if I can replace them.

[Dervish]

Thanks to Aldo at Qantum Bicycles I now have straight forks!

I’d given up on them until Will at Rivbike posted about a repair of an equally mangled fork
[shareyoutube]https://youtu.be/tpJ1rDGyxBI[/shareyoutube]

Now to rebuild and replace the indexed headset
P.s iiNet/TPG killed all my old images I’ll see if I can replace them.

Excellent news! I always imagine processes like this to be more complicated and finicky than they turn out to be.

Speaking of that particular company, I have been running the GWR as my 'I can't afford a Rivendell' bike; and after years of riding exclusively on drop bars, I get it. For certain rides a more upright position is just the thing. Don't worry, all the original bits off the GWR are being kept safely tucked away except for the racks which are in use on another bike.



Unfortunately a crack in the rear hub has surfaced, leaving me contemplating options for replacement. I could replace the hub - it seems like a fairly commonly used type, I've seen them on Apollos - or I could replace the wheels with 650Bs. This would suit the brakes better, which are adjusted to their upper limits with the pads angled slightly up to catch the 650As, and would allow a significantly greater selection of tyres both in quality and size, but suitable 650B wheels are almost impossible to find.

[plasmapug]

Did anyone else see this GWR on Instagram via Commuter Cycles in Melbourne?! Nice!

https://www.instagram.com/p/C39xsHuuHgS ... hare_sheet

[Thoglette]

Thanks to Aldo at Qantum Bicycles I now have straight forks!

Excellent news! I always imagine processes like this to be more complicated and finicky than they turn out to be.

It is, I need to get Aldo to machine a foompteenth off the bearing seat as it was causing the headset to bind if I seated the bearing fully.

..but suitable 650B wheels are almost impossible to find.

There were some 650B rims on gummy on the weekend……

[Dervish]

It is, I need to get Aldo to machine a foompteenth off the bearing seat as it was causing the headset to bind if I seated the bearing fully.

Well I am looking forward to seeing photos.

..but suitable 650B wheels are almost impossible to find.

There were some 650B rims on gummy on the weekend……

By some miracle I actually did find some. They may have been the ones you saw if you were quick, I didn't let them stay up for long. These were made by a guy who works at the ReCyclery here in Canberra. Velocity Aero rims and Shimano hubs, I forget which. The 650Bs work perfectly with the canti position on the frame, better than with the 26x1 3/8"s. The pads are comfortably in the range of diameter adjustment, not right at the top as they were. It's currently running a 9-speed cassette, which the Suntour Power Thumb Shifters are able to deal with without too much issue; I am definitely using their entire travel.

This is my go-to bike when I'm not in a hurry, it's a lovely thing to ride.

[Thoglette]

Nice!

I've not put the photos (back) up as I had some issues with Imgur, that I still need to sort out.

I went to re-install the fork and discovered I need to take it back to Aldo to get a foompteenth machined off the fork bearing race seat.