Ideas on a faster commuter

[cyclingnolycra]

Hi guys,

My current commute is about 13km one way through traffic (but not fast moving traffic). I'm currently using a Merida speeder 400 with mudguards and panniers with rack. It's quite good except it's a bit... slow. I feel like superman on my Scultura, which means the commute is nowhere near as fun as it could be.

Was wondering what exactly makes it so slow - is it purely the position + tyres? I'm using GP4seasons in 32mm on the speeder which seem okay and I like the puncture protection since I ride it in the wet, so I'm not sure I want to change to faster tyres, and I'm unconvinced about tubeless since I can't be bothered changing over. I am not getting disc brake rub, or if there is, it is minimal.

If I were to change to something faster for the commute, I'd still want mudguards + panniers and thus the mounts for them. Would something like this https://www.99bikes.com.au/cube22-nuroa ... grey-black be ideal? Any other suggestions? It's hard to find decent road bikes with mounts for panniers and racks.

Or should I just suck it up and just ride the slower bike on the commute?

[MattyK]

It'll be a combination of everything. Less aerodynamic bike, less aero position, more rolling resistance.
Just enjoy it being harder knowing that it's improving your fitness for when you're on the road bike.

[warthog1]

Yes weight, aero drag and rolling resistance.
Being less aerodynamic is probably the biggest component.

[Retrobyte]

If I were to change to something faster for the commute, I'd still want mudguards + panniers and thus the mounts for them. Would something like this https://www.99bikes.com.au/cube22-nuroa ... grey-black be ideal? Any other suggestions? It's hard to find decent road bikes with mounts for panniers and racks.

Also at 99 Bikes is this Norco Search - similar specs to the Cube you looked at, and around the same price .... https://www.99bikes.com.au/norco-search ... green-2021

[trailgumby]

I built this up this year from a secondhand bike. It's an absolute brick - weighs almost as much as my XC dually at close to 11kg - but it gets the job done. I could make it faster by putting some lighter, aero Chinese carbon wheels on it, but I'm training to power so I'm not bothered by how I'm doing against previous tailwind-influenced Strava times. And it doesn't seem to be that much slower as a commuter than my aero climbing bike, despite the weight penalty which includes having a 32H straight gauge wheelset that weighs in over 2.1kg.



Now that my power numbers are starting to head back toward their usual territory after I dropped the ball during lockdown 2.0, my commute times are also coming back to their usual times.

Panniers are always going to slow you down. They create a lot of drag and a faster bike is not going to make a lot of difference. In the normal summer afternoon nor'-easters, they felt like I was dragging a parachute when I was using them, sommuting from Sydney Olympic Park to the Northern Beaches.

These days more aero frame and seatpost bags, such as those seen in use on the IndiPac bike packing race from Perth to Sydney, are more popular. The only reason I would use regular panniers is if I had to carry awkwardly shaped items like laptop computers that don't neatly fit into frame bags.

[Retrobyte]

These days more aero frame and seatpost bags, such as those seen in use on the IndiPac bike packing race from Perth to Sydney, are more popular. The only reason I would use regular panniers is if I had to carry awkwardly shaped items like laptop computers that don't neatly fit into frame bags.

I started with panniers on my commuter but for the reasons you describe I switched to a trunk bag instead - it sits on top of the rack so doesn't add any aero drag. I can fit a 15" laptop in it (just)

https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/trunk-bag-rc-urban

[Thoglette]

I started with panniers on my commuter but for the reasons you describe I switched to a trunk bag instead -

Ditto. But with the now-unavailable Deuter office bag. One can ghetto a set up using bits from their more available (but too small) trunk bag.

[gsxrboy]

Just enjoy it being harder knowing that it's improving your fitness for when you're on the road bike.

Train heavy, race light!

[trailgumby]

These days more aero frame and seatpost bags, such as those seen in use on the IndiPac bike packing race from Perth to Sydney, are more popular. The only reason I would use regular panniers is if I had to carry awkwardly shaped items like laptop computers that don't neatly fit into frame bags.

I started with panniers on my commuter but for the reasons you describe I switched to a trunk bag instead - it sits on top of the rack so doesn't add any aero drag. I can fit a 15" laptop in it (just)

https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/trunk-bag-rc-urban

Yeah, that looks decent. Does the elevated weight do anything "interesting" to the handling, or is it OK?

Just enjoy it being harder knowing that it's improving your fitness for when you're on the road bike.

Train heavy, race light!

Always good advice.

[bychosis]

My 2c is if you want your bike to be more fun/fast/agile ditch the panniers. Probably not faster, just feels it.

I tried to commute a few times with a rack with a backpack strapped onto it as I didn’t want to buy panniers at the time. For me it spoiled the enjoyment of riding the bike. Handling was shot, couldn’t hop over uneven concrete slabs or up kerbs etc. been with a backpack pretty much since. Sure, it’s not as nice for your back but for me ride enjoyment was a preference.

Currently riding a disc brake flat bar roadie on 23mm tyres to commute. I’ll probably step up a bit in width when these tyres wear out though.

[robbo mcs]

Hi,

Just by pure coincidence, I have just spent a couple of says riding a Merida speeder 400. I went interstate for work, and rented one. I actually think it went pretty well for a flatbar bike, and not overly heavy for that type of bike either. So I don't think it is the bike per se.

As others said, a combination.
Aero the big one. Particularly relatively high position. Can you lower the bars a bit, without messing up your fit?
Tyres : your tyres are not particularly fast rolling, but you know that.
Weight : A rack can be anything from 350 -1000g, mudguards 300-800g, panniers 800 - 1500. So potentially a lot of weight added. As others said, bikepacks will be lighter and more aero, but not as convenent

No one simple thing is going to make you substantially faster, you would have to try and change a few.

[warthog1]

The cube you linked looks OK.
It will be a faster commuter.
More importantly it is also a gravel bike and that will open up a heap of new routes without cars.

[g-boaf]

My 2c is if you want your bike to be more fun/fast/agile ditch the panniers. Probably not faster, just feels it.

I tried to commute a few times with a rack with a backpack strapped onto it as I didn’t want to buy panniers at the time. For me it spoiled the enjoyment of riding the bike. Handling was shot, couldn’t hop over uneven concrete slabs or up kerbs etc. been with a backpack pretty much since. Sure, it’s not as nice for your back but for me ride enjoyment was a preference.

Currently riding a disc brake flat bar roadie on 23mm tyres to commute. I’ll probably step up a bit in width when these tyres wear out though.

I always used a backpack- I never had a bike suitable for a rack. I never had to carry a computer with me, so it stayed at work and I could use my own computer at home if needed. Now I know that works perfectly. If I carried anything I also made sure the weight of it wasn’t able to shift about.

Definitely would suggest avoiding 23mm tyres, they are too harsh. 25/26mm seems to be a nice compromise.

My commuter bikes were always fairly light so the weight made stuff all training difference. The training is a matter of training properly.

On the days my legs were stuffed I at least didn’t have to struggle along at terrible slow speeds.

[Retrobyte]

I started with panniers on my commuter but for the reasons you describe I switched to a trunk bag instead - it sits on top of the rack so doesn't add any aero drag. I can fit a 15" laptop in it (just)

https://www.ortlieb.com/en_us/trunk-bag-rc-urban

Yeah, that looks decent. Does the elevated weight do anything "interesting" to the handling, or is it OK?


[/quote]


Carrying a bag holding a few kg anywhere means your bike is never handle the same as it would without the weight, but the trunk bag is certainly better than a backpack in terms of centre of gravity. It's not enough to feel unsable or dangerous at all on the aluminium gravel bike I use for commuting, but then again it's a pretty tame and flat commute mostly on shared paths. It does ride better with the trunk bag than it did when I was using panniers.

[hunch]

Sure, it’s not as nice for your back but for me ride enjoyment was a preference.

Maybe coincidence, in the last couple of years I've developed cysts on the back, the recent one required surgery. The GP opined my practice of riding with a laptop backpack may have exacerbated the situation.....my top is a wet towel in a few km wearing it even in winter.

I couldn't hack panniers I'm sure. Haven't had one since I was a kid, but a bike rack of some sort will be the next purchase.

[cyclingnolycra]

Thanks all for the advice and ideas, appreciate it.

I didn't realise that the panniers were that much slower! I thought given that my legs are kind of already in the way in front of the panniers they wouldn't make that much difference! I don't think I'm willing to give up the comfort and convenience of the panniers though - if I was, I might as well just ride a road bike with mudguards with a backpack and call it a day.

Yep the speeder 400 isn't too heavy. I will try slamming the stem and turning the stem down rather than up (which is the default). Hoping it's mostly the body position.

[bychosis]

As above, for me it was the weight on the bike affecting handling, not the aero that made it less fun to ride.

While your road bike feels fast, actually how much slower is the commuter? Do you want to measurably BE faster or just enjoy the ride more? I suspect a faster bike with existing panniers will only disappoint if you are competing to a roadie sans bags.

[Thoglette]

Just enjoy it being harder knowing that it's improving your fitness for when you're on the road bike.

Train heavy, race light!

What race?

More importantly: a correction

Ditto. But with the now-unavailable Deuter office bag.

Topeak MTX Office Bag. A great idea, poorly implemented: it's not big enough & too busy being a briefcase (and not a carry-all : it will fit a shirt, smalls, sandwich and laptop but there's no room for shoes, larger lunch box, jacket etc.). Most people seem to cut out the inside bits. I did too, eventually.

(from bicyclestore.com.au)

[Retrobyte]

Topeak MTX Office Bag. A great idea, poorly implemented: it's not big enough & too busy being a briefcase (and not a carry-all : it will fit a shirt, smalls, sandwich and laptop but there's no room for shoes, larger lunch box, jacket etc.). Most people seem to cut out the inside bits. I did too, eventually.

(from bicyclestore.com.au)

Shoes are always going to challenge most compact bags for commuting. I lave 2 pairs of shoes in my locker at the office, as well as toiletries, so a shirt, trousers, undies and socks take up very little room at all in my trunk bag. What seems to take up the most room in my trunk bag, especially in winter is a rain jacket, helmet cover, a second pair of gloves (either warmer or cooler) in case my evening commute is a different temp to my morning commute, clear set of sunnies in case of rain etc. Obviously summer means travelling a lot lighter.

[g-boaf]

What race?

As disgraceful as it is, some people also enjoy other kinds of bike riding, like racing, be it on road bikes or mountain bikes.

Sure, it’s not as nice for your back but for me ride enjoyment was a preference.

Maybe coincidence, in the last couple of years I've developed cysts on the back, the recent one required surgery. The GP opined my practice of riding with a laptop backpack may have exacerbated the situation.....my top is a wet towel in a few km wearing it even in winter.

I couldn't hack panniers I'm sure. Haven't had one since I was a kid, but a bike rack of some sort will be the next purchase.

Is the laptop absolutely required or can you use your own computer away from the office with a virtual desktop solution (like Citrix)?

I did that instead, left the work laptop at work. I also kept shoes at work in a locker along with other things I needed. So I mostly only took relatively light things like the clothes I needed to wear. I didn't get too sweaty unless it was an absolutely scorching day. I used to ride home some afternoons in 40ºC but I just made sure to wear the lightest jersey I had (a Rapha one) and kept the average speed down. Having a fast and very light bike helps with that. All that said it was a super reliable machine. Still have it.

[bychosis]

What race?

Commute Cup Racing obviously.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=32291

[queequeg]

I am not commuting much these days due to WFH since Covid, but way back at the start of my commuting journey in 2008 I was on a Trek FX Hybrid bike for commuting, initially 21km each way, then 27km each way when we moved house and moved office at similar times.

My first 6 months I was on the Hybrid with a backpack, which I really didn't like from a comfort perspective. I bought a rack and waterproof panniers and this increased the comfort factor. I didn't notice any real difference in performance with the panniers, though I was probably working harder, balanced by the fact I was also fitter.

When I moved house out the Hills District of Sydney, my commute became a lot more varied with hills (and the closure of the M2 for 4 years due to an upgrade), and I lasted about 3 months on the Hybrid bike once I moved house. There were a couple of hills that were just too much to handle on the Hybrid, and the high riding position meant I was always like a big sail heading into the wind.

My new commuter bike, purchased in 2011, was a Titanium frame drop-bar CX bike with a Titanium rack plus my panniers. The difference between the two bikes on the same route was like night and day. I was 10 minutes faster on the drop bar bike. It weighed more than the Hybrid, but because I could get into a more aero position riding on the hoods or the drops, it was far less effort.
I still have that 2011 bike as my commuter. It has rack, full length mudguards and 28mm tyres, though I often run 32mm. It will take up to 40mm if i want to do that.

I have a locker at work where I keep shoes, pants, toiletries etc. The only thing i need to carry on a daily basis is my laptop and a change of socks/underwear and a clean shirt. I ride with a single pannier bag weighing maybe 2.5kg. On a day where it's bucketing down, I may have a change of cycling clothes or some wet weather gear as well, but in summer I just get wet and hang my kit up at work to dry before going home.

The difference between my commuter bike and my unladen road bike is another step up. The fastest I have done my commute on the commuter bike, fully loaded, is an elapsed time just on 50min. On my Road Bike I have done it in 42min. I just treat the commute as a training ride on a heavy bike. It's only a commute, I don't need to destroy myself getting there and back. I just try to enjoy it. I even still have a few KOMs that were set while I dragged myself and my pannier bags up a hill lol

[Thoglette]

What seems to take up the most room in my trunk bag, especially in winter is a rain jacket, helmet cover, a second pair of gloves (either warmer or cooler) in case my evening commute is a different temp to my morning commute, clear set of sunnies in case of rain etc.

I stuff that into a largish handlebar bag. Hangs from a decaleur and rests on a mini front rack.

Jan H. reckons that this also cleans up the airflow around the front of the bike.

[cyclingnolycra]

As above, for me it was the weight on the bike affecting handling, not the aero that made it less fun to ride.

While your road bike feels fast, actually how much slower is the commuter? Do you want to measurably BE faster or just enjoy the ride more? I suspect a faster bike with existing panniers will only disappoint if you are competing to a roadie sans bags.

The commuter is significantly slower, if I go all out on the commuter I'd probably average about 22kph, but on the roadie maybe 26kph (obviously with plenty of traffic and intersections in both cases). Usual cruising speeds about 2kph slower in both cases. I only have a power meter on the roadie, so just going by perceived effort.

Yeah it would be interesting to see how much slower a roadie with panniers vs roadie with backpack is. From what queequeg says it looks like it'd still be yet another step up, so the speed would be somewhere in between my two different bikes now. I'd probably take that, depending on the cost of new commuter minus the sale price of the speeder.

Another consideration is that if I get a drop bar commuter with mudguards + rack, I could conceivably use it as a wet weather bike to ride for fun. Only problem is I just got a smart trainer, so maybe it's unrealistic to think I'd ride it for fun in the wet...

[find_bruce]

The commuter is significantly slower, if I go all out on the commuter I'd probably average about 22kph, but on the roadie maybe 26kph

And how many seconds do you save? I'm guessing about 5 minutes

The problem you are facing is that most of the little improvements with the roadie are things you want to keep on your commuter.

Rather than trying to turn my commuter into a roadie, what I do is when I feel the need for speed I plan ahead & take the roadie - picking a nice day to do it