Upgrading bike - which one to buy?

[victor223]

Hi all!

Like many other during the COVID lockdowns, I got into cycling with a small group of friends. So during the start of the year I got a relatively cheap Reid Granite 2.0 gravel bike with a Claris R2000 groupset. Just to see if I like riding like many other and so far I'm really enjoying it. Since then I've changed the 37C Riddler WTB tyres to some GP5000 clincher 32C tyres since I was riding more on paved surfaces.

Recently I've been noticing that the 8pd was just lacking a bit in terms of smoothness and hilly climbs, so I'm wanting to upgrade to something with a 105 groupset or above. I'm after something more enjoyable and I don't think I'll be doing any racing as I'm past my prime in terms of physical fitness . Looking on the FB marketplace seems overwhelming from stuff going from $1.5K all the way to $4-5K.

Rim brakes vs disc brakes? I know the benefits of each but for someone who only goes riding on nice days without rain, does it matter? Or is it because of wheel choices? Futureproofing? I do like the disc brakes on my Granite 2.0, even though they are mechanical.

Carbon or aluminium? My bike has carbon fork and it weights 12kg fully kitted with saddle bag, lights, bottle cage. Does 4-5kg less worth the extra $2-3K? Is carbon frame just all a fad because everyone wants them?

So if you were in my situation, what would be a good upgrade and still be enjoyable.

[open roader]

I'm an experienced recreational road bike rider who also happened to recently purchase a gravel bike (or as I call it an all road bike)

My experience :-

I'm a traditionalist with road bikes ie) I prefer rim brakes, tube and lug frames, mechanical groupsets and external cable routing etc. and have built all my current bikes from the frame up because I want them built just the way I like with this and not that etc - something I could never purchase pre-built.

However, my 'all road bike' is a Canonndale Topstone 2 which I purchased straight off the shop floor - it features hydraulic disc brakes, monocoque carbon frame and internal cable routing. I've ridden it for several months now and my experience is that I got what I paid for.

Motivation to ride your bike is different for all of us. Me - I appreciate a lightweight bike, the carbon frame and tubeless carbon wheels on my Topstone not being too far away from regular carbon road bikes in the weight dept at 9.35kg with pedals, bottles (empty) and lights fitted. The GRX 810 groupset was the top level gravel specific groupset at the time I purchased the bike and I have to say it shifts gears as smoothly as my beloved Campagnolo road groupsets, which coming from me, is high praise indeed.

I paid $5,900 for my Topstone Carbon 2 - the first bike I have not built myself in 17 years of owning bikes and I must say I do not regret spending the money as the bike performs so well every single ride that my motivation is always there to ride it - it's now my default ride.

My advice for people wanting to upgrade bikes is to be sure what motivates them to ride that particular bike. I want lightweight as I'm not a strong rider and I don't mind paying for that. Others will differ and there is no wrong or right answer as motivation to ride a bike is highly subjective.

I ride as much as possible on gravel roads, purely because I have heaps around where I live and I want to ride without the presence of sealed road traffic. Sounds like you are the opposite and spend more miles on sealed roads. If I didn't already own a plethora of bikes already and I was often torn between needing wide road tyres or narrow gravel tyres, I'd buy an extra pair of matching wheels and have the best of both worlds.

Hydraulic discs are the way to go for 9+ kg bikes ridden on dirt roads - I'd not fancy having rim brakes on this bike - even with well maintained pads and brake tracks - discs rule dirt in my opinion.

I spent a lot of time researching this purchase and I have to say 2nd hand options were very difficult to find, and often always in the wrong size, after 6 months of looking I found a discounted floor stock bike and did not look back.

[10speedsemiracer]

As always, sage and timely advice from O/R.

In this context and era however, it's no longer a case of which bike more a case of what is available any time in the near future.

Two major brands are already telling their dealers not to expect anything meaningful in terms of stock until Q3 2022. My experience thus far is that anything even remotely decent has already been snapped up on a pre-order, so if you have an inkling of what you may want, a Giant Revolt Advanced or a Canyon Grizl or whatever, then get on the Order list sooner rather than later.

In doing your research though, it's important to be fully aware of your riding environment and style. No point buying a racy-racy if you're all about the endurance ride and so on and so forth..

[victor223]

Thanks for all the great feedback and insight.

So the conclusion is to go with your heart . I guess that makes sense as cycling is all about the motivation to keep peddling at wee hours of the morning.

So my plan is to upgrade to a endurance bike so I can fit wider tyres for comfort, since I'm not chasing outright speed, just more pace.
Then I can keep my current gravel bike and back to gravel tyres for it's intended purpose.

So I've narrowed it down to:
- Merida Scultura Endurance - waiting list until mid 2022 it seems, but I can wait
- Giant Defy - there a Advanced Pro 1 (mech Ultegra) going around for $3.5K which I'm thinking but really unsure if it's worth it
- Trek Domane SL - A few lurking around 2nd hand but not my size

Any other endurance bikes that is worthwhile to to look for? I'm quite new to bikes so those are the brands I know.

Also, what to look out for when buying 2nd hand bikes? Is there a section somewhere here I can refer to?

[Retrobyte]

Any other endurance bikes that is worthwhile to to look for? I'm quite new to bikes so those are the brands I know.

Specialised Roubaix
Cannondale Synapse
Bianchi Infinito
Canyon Endurace

[Fishybone]

Love my Canyon Endurace. I’m a newbie cyclist and already I’m chewing up 50-80km rides easy. It rides smooth, is pretty fast and the geometry is comfortable. Wait time is a bit of an unknown though and you need to religiously monitor the website to see if they’re back in stock.

When I ordered mine in October, the ETA was 31 Dec but I ended up receiving it in mid Nov.

You could also consider the BMC Roadmachine.

[10speedsemiracer]

Thanks for all the great feedback and insight.

So the conclusion is to go with your heart . I guess that makes sense as cycling is all about the motivation to keep peddling at wee hours of the morning.

So my plan is to upgrade to a endurance bike so I can fit wider tyres for comfort, since I'm not chasing outright speed, just more pace.
Then I can keep my current gravel bike and back to gravel tyres for it's intended purpose.

So I've narrowed it down to:
- Merida Scultura Endurance - waiting list until mid 2022 it seems, but I can wait
- Giant Defy - there a Advanced Pro 1 (mech Ultegra) going around for $3.5K which I'm thinking but really unsure if it's worth it
- Trek Domane SL - A few lurking around 2nd hand but not my size

Any other endurance bikes that is worthwhile to to look for? I'm quite new to bikes so those are the brands I know.

Also, what to look out for when buying 2nd hand bikes? Is there a section somewhere here I can refer to?

If you can find an Adv Pro 1 Defy for $3.5k, I would suggest buying it quick smart

[TomH]

I've been through a similar journey, although choices were limited as I am 6ft6. On my short list I had Giant Defy, Canyon Endurace, Canyon Ultimate, BMC Roadmachine, Cervelo Caledonia. I still have a Cervelo RS which I paid $1400 for in July last year and put 12k on before deciding to upgrade. 2nd hand was also on my list, but it's hit and miss. My Cervelo developed a bottom bracket crack after I'd had it for a few months. Got it filled by the Carbon Bike Doctor who said it could last 6 months, 12 months or indefinitely. I wanted Ultegra and mechanical. Ideally discs.

Canyon Ultimate was the first to go. Reach was a bit longer compared to my current bike and also had the aero cockpit limiting changes. Giant Defy also went - it's a bit upright and also wheels are a bit underspeccd at the lower end (subjective). Caledonia is a great bike but it's a bit more expensive and there was none in Australia. BMC has aero cockpit as well, and also none in Australia, but this was my second choice, and there was also none in Australia.

Then one day the Endurace changed from Coming Soon to Order now. Got delivered after a few months and been extremely happy with it. A few minor things - needed to bleed front brakes after a month. Minor paint chip on seat post join. Very comfortable - the two piece carbon post on the Ultegra version really absorbs the bumps.

But looking at your list - you are not going to go wrong with any on your list. Check 99 spokes and you will find the Geometry is very similar. If you've got a super friendly LBS then I would go there. The Canyon is about 3-400 less for the same spec, but be aware your CC provider may charge 3% as the forex fee. For me it was sealed with being actually able to get the bike - but I would recommend Canyon to anyone.

[Bentnose]

One thing to consider, if you can, is to source all of the parts separately and build it yourself. This will potentially allow you to avoid the bike supply issues and can actually be cheaper, I built an Argon 18 Krypton for under $1400 (6 years ago). Of course this isn’t for everyone, you can’t test ride first, need the tools and know how and can be limited in choice at times.

Doing it this way means looking at manufacturers that sell endurance frame sets which will be different than the norm. I managed to pick up a Pinarello Dogma MTB cheap a few years ago and built that up for less than any brand of equivalent bike, it’s a nice bike, just unusual.

[AndrewCowley]

One thing to consider, if you can, is to source all of the parts separately and build it yourself.

With the price of parts and components going ballistic over the past couple of years, I wonder if this is still viable?

[baabaa]

One thing to consider, if you can, is to source all of the parts separately and build it yourself.

With the price of parts and components going ballistic over the past couple of years, I wonder if this is still viable?

Um could be just me but if you don't race bikes, I consider it to be more so now than ever - ten to fifteen years ago a good frame cost about the same as now. BUT you get to choose the parts to go on and can then opt for long running parts and dont need worry about spare parts not being available in the LBS or online and, the very big one, not having to worry about being compatible. Parts like phil wood, white industries and chris king hubs cost a bundle back then but if they run trouble free for so long you can start to see that they are money well spent. Also, look at this site as an example, plenty of people post questions about will this part work with such a group set or say ever changing shifters.

By doing your own build you get to pick a frame that is close to best size for needs and can then spec it with the "correct" size and type of parts to suit you as a rider. Good frames do make better biking and don't often fail, so if someone can get a high or medium priced frame and run it to make budget with cheap parts, you then could upgrade these later (or not) and not the frame.

Question really is do you as buyer want what the bike companies want to sell into the market. Once you try, it is it hard to go back as you get to know the real cost of bike things. Knowing your real needs is tricky. Also just me but have found I enjoy my biking way more after breaking away from the curse of the running battle that shimano has become (and yes, I was once a fan)

[Mr Purple]

One thing to consider, if you can, is to source all of the parts separately and build it yourself.

With the price of parts and components going ballistic over the past couple of years, I wonder if this is still viable?

I did it. No, no it isn't. You're going to be paying retail for your groupset and frame for starters, and probably a lot of postage because no one supplier has everything. It would have been far cheaper to buy an off the floor bike, but not as cool.

[Bentnose]

I did it. No, no it isn't. You're going to be paying retail for your groupset and frame for starters, and probably a lot of postage because no one supplier has everything. It would have been far cheaper to buy an off the floor bike, but not as cool.

I’ve found it to be cheaper building your own but you need to have the right mindset and approach. You can’t expect to build a bike exactly like you can buy complete, it will cost too much. You have to look for NOS, obscure and potentially unpopular parts, as long as they will work for you.

I’ve also become very skilled at rooting out the bargains, I might spend hours scrounging the net and writing out lists to figure out how how much I can do it for before I even order anything. I’ll then try and do even better when I order the parts and sometimes you just need to wait for the right moment.

Even now I’ve been on a spending spree and have bought drivetrains and other bits for all of my bikes. I’ve even bought all of the bits necessary to convert my road bike to 11 speed from 10 speed 105 for $550.

[Bentnose]

I didn’t actually say it but my motto is “never pay full retail”.

[MattyK]

That’s a fun approach but it depends how much you value those hours spent searching and building.

Still, you have more chance of getting exactly what you want, my bikes tend to get upgraded at more expense anyway…

[Bentnose]

That’s a fun approach but it depends how much you value those hours spent searching and building.

Still, you have more chance of getting exactly what you want, my bikes tend to get upgraded at more expense anyway…

I enjoy hunting for the bargains, it’s not like I’m doing it all of the time and it’s very satisfying when it all comes together. Frame is the first thing to buy then the rest follows.

[10speedsemiracer]

One thing to consider, if you can, is to source all of the parts separately and build it yourself. This will potentially allow you to avoid the bike supply issues and can actually be cheaper....
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Not in today's environment it won't be. Groupsets are very (very) thin on the ground, and since Shimano introduced and then started really enforcing their geo-blocking, there is much less potential for saving $s. Can no longer source a complete groupset from sellers like Merlin or Bike24, everything comes from the local distributor.

[Bentnose]

Just bought some brifters from AliExpress, couldn't get them from from anywhere else, bought the other 105 stuff, cassette, chain, rear derailleur, Ultegra brake and gear cable sets all for $550, pricing seems fine to me.

[10speedsemiracer]

Just bought some brifters from AliExpress, couldn't get them from from anywhere else, bought the other 105 stuff, cassette, chain, rear derailleur, Ultegra brake and gear cable sets all for $550, pricing seems fine to me.

Well I'm having issues getting stuff for the workshop from most suppliers, with cranksets and integrated levers being near impossible.

With Ultegra 11s levers being nearly $500 locally (and out of stock everywhere) you've done well putting all that together for $550. Being AliExpress though, I hope they're legit. If they are, well done.

[Bentnose]

Just bought some brifters from AliExpress, couldn't get them from from anywhere else, bought the other 105 stuff, cassette, chain, rear derailleur, Ultegra brake and gear cable sets all for $550, pricing seems fine to me.

Well I'm having issues getting stuff for the workshop from most suppliers, with cranksets and integrated levers being near impossible.

With Ultegra 11s levers being nearly $500 locally (and out of stock everywhere) you've done well putting all that together for $550. Being AliExpress though, I hope they're legit. If they are, well done.

Sorry, realised I’d missed a word, I bought everything else locally, only the R7000 brifters were from AliExpress, I did buy a Sunrace cassette and an Ultegra chain not 105. I would have preferred to buy the brifters locally, Bikebug listed a pretty good price but stock is non existent as you say. Looking forward to using an 11-34 cassette, finding the hills harder as I get older.

[baabaa]

Being AliExpress though, I hope they're legit.

What does this even mean?
As part of the Alibaba group they have a lot more to loose from a bad reputation than any other organisation that sells just bicycles or bike parts - do you know of any shoddy shimano parts that have been sold via AliExpress? If not these comments are not helpful.

I also understood that the ali group will back all items with some sort of solid buyer protection guarantee - not sure who arbitrates this but a shimano part is pretty much a shimano part no matter who sells them. If you think any part could be a grey item vs new in box, just like any business you simply ask the seller before you buy.

- Note - I have no links to Alibaba other than as from the trade of commodities when the buyer for some reason wants to trade via that platform / method

[10speedsemiracer]

Being AliExpress though, I hope they're legit.

What does this even mean?
As part of the Alibaba group they have a lot more to loose from a bad reputation than any other organisation that sells just bicycles or bike parts - do you know of any shoddy shimano parts that have been sold via AliExpress? If not these comments are not helpful.

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Sorry for the belated reply, I don't usually see your comments BaaBaa.

I'm not sure how this was ambiguous.

I have been bitten twice on AliExpress, having received counterfeit (i.e. not genuine) items. On neither occasion did the site/seller respond to my enquiries.

And this comment

As part of the Alibaba group they have a lot more to loose (sic) from a bad reputation than any other organisation that sells just bicycles or bike parts

would lead me to believe that you don't understand the business model.
Think of them as a large scale dropshipping operation, in the same way that Kogan and Amazon continue to exist by being nothing more than just a portal.
They have little to no control over the stuff that goes through the system, and apparently no interest in addressing feedback or queries from ripped-off customers (at least that was my experience).

On that note, I was presented yesterday (in the workshop) with a bike purchased via Kogan which gave the impression of being a Shimano-equipped hardtail MTB. But the components had misspelt logos in the same font as Shimano, which I'm sure anyone who's been around bikes long enough has seen at least once. This thing was deplorably built, unsafe to even sit on. The brake lever flex was frightening, the frame creaked as soon as any sort of weight was added, it weighed as much as an eMTB etc etc.

The poor customer, not a cycling enthusiast, had no idea. he wanted me to redo the assembly, in response to which I spent the best part of an hour with him highlighting the issues both in isolation and in comparison to a properly-built quality MTB. He's off to test Kogan's refund and return process, and is expecting resistance.

So yes BaaBaa, counterfeiting is rife, and usually found online.

Is summed up in this article

And then there's this article .

Particularly the following paragraph

Since Convey started working with Pinarello in 2013, the firm has taken down 45,000 listings for counterfeit goods (a listing can include multiple items).
Wei Tang, who works on Love’s team as Specialized’s dedicated liaison to Alibaba Group sites, says that in the first seven months of 2015, he got more than $5 million in fake inventory delisted just from Alibaba websites.
Specialized knocks down about $15 million a year total in counterfeit sales, across more than 80 platforms.
In a written response to our request for comment, Candice Huang, a spokesperson for the Alibaba Group, said that it has more than 2,000 staff devoted to fighting counterfeit on its sites, a problem that founder Jack Ma has called “a cancer.”

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If it (fake crap) didn't exist BaaBaa, I wonder what those 2,000 staff members would be doing all day.

I'm guessing you're not a frequent user of AliExpress/AliBaba ? Or maybe aren't familiar with the issues ?

In your own words ..

If not these comments are not helpful.

[Bentnose]

You need to be careful to choose which of the retailers you use on AliExpress, some have a good reputation, others none at all. As long as you do a little research and also good numbers sold along with lots of good reviews you should hopefully be fine. It seems that most of the complete group sets on AliExpress come with Chinese cassettes and chains which are very poor quality so you need to sure of what you are ordering.

[baabaa]

gave the impression of being a Shimano-equipped
counterfeiting is rife, and usually found online.

Come on - the question is easy - just answer the question
do you know of any shoddy shimano parts that have been sold via AliExpress?

[10speedsemiracer]

gave the impression of being a Shimano-equipped
counterfeiting is rife, and usually found online.

Come on - the question is easy - just answer the question
do you know of any shoddy shimano parts that have been sold via AliExpress?

As stated in my prior post,

I have been bitten twice on AliExpress, having received counterfeit (i.e. not genuine) items. On neither occasion did the site/seller respond to my enquiries.

One of those occasions involved a counterfeit set of ez-fire shift levers, the other a cable set which should have been Jagwire but wasn't.