E bikes ruining social rides
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E bikes ruining social rides
Postby celeste boy » Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:27 pm
* Riding on a bike track behind an e bike, noticed there was not a consistent speed. Im accustomed to looking at the riders hip and leg movements to alter my speed. I seemed to be using the brakes a lot and when I opted to pass after being frustrated there was another rider on my right. Nowhere to go if the e bike stopped or slowed down.
* Rode a fairly hilly ride and noticed the e bikes were roaring up the hills. Im talking 10 -12% which is steep for me. Im working my guts out and these guys just ride past , no problems. These were guys who bought an e bike as an extra bike but now its e bike, every ride. They may as well be on motor bikes or in cars!
The first is a safety issue and I'll deal with that by passing every time he slows down. Hopefully he will get the message.
The second is a social issue that I'm just going to have to live with.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby RonK » Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:47 pm
Regardless, it's a social ride group where we encourage riders at any level of competence and fitness, on any type of bike as long as it is safe and sevicable.
Yes some riders have poor cycling skills and no understanding of group cycling etiquette. It's an opportunity to educate, and most get the message fairly quickly.
Some riders have poor social skills as well - we've had success educating some in appropriate manners and behaviour, others not so much.
The e-bike riders are no worse than others.
You sometimes just have to take a deep breathe and chill out.
BTW anyone looking for a social ride In Brisbane can find us on Meetup - Social Cyclists SEQ.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby WyvernRH » Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:45 pm
Hmm, well point one I think you'll have to live with, that's a learned reaction on your part, similar say to one I have/had in having half an eye on the rider in front's rear brake callipers to see if they are going to brake - totally useless with the move to disks. The cadence to get an e-bike to work optimally is different from us flesh driven folk and from what my wife seems to have found out, changes depending on what assist mode they are in.celeste boy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 5:27 pmI ride with a group, a mixture of manual and e bikes. The e bikes are becoming more numerous. Last week these 2 things turned me off a bit:
* Riding on a bike track behind an e bike, noticed there was not a consistent speed. Im accustomed to looking at the riders hip and leg movements to alter my speed. I seemed to be using the brakes a lot and when I opted to pass after being frustrated there was another rider on my right. Nowhere to go if the e bike stopped or slowed down.
* Rode a fairly hilly ride and noticed the e bikes were roaring up the hills. Im talking 10 -12% which is steep for me. Im working my guts out and these guys just ride past , no problems. These were guys who bought an e bike as an extra bike but now its e bike, every ride. They may as well be on motor bikes or in cars!
The first is a safety issue and I'll deal with that by passing every time he slows down. Hopefully he will get the message.
The second is a social issue that I'm just going to have to live with.
RonK covered point 2 very well, basically it is a matter of gently pointing out group etiquette and what's considered polite.
Our social group has quite a few e-bikes, mostly new riders or people who used to only ride down to the shops. They quickly learn the basics and how to integrate (mostly ) It can be a tadge frustrating when someone cruises past you on a 1 in 10 with an impossibly low cadence but hey, they are out there having a good time in the countryside in their own way just like you an me slogging our way up using only muscle power.
Richard
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Mububban » Mon Oct 04, 2021 6:24 pm
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby peter » Wed Oct 06, 2021 8:21 pm
Different capabilities, different fitness requirements; when you are struggling uphill, they are waiting at the top; when you need a rest they are ready to go. Not at the same pace at all.
I ride for fitness, 40km to 50km in 2 hours is a good workout and it doesn't take half a day. If I get an ebike I would have to go further and ride longer, because there's no point to ride the same 50km on an ebike. Which means a ride suddenly becomes half day or even full day affair. I have got no time for that.
ebike makes sense for commute, transportation, or technician trails involving lots of uphill. Not a good fit for social road groups.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Mr Purple » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:22 am
The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).
So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby RonK » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:37 am
That depends on the type of ride- this discussion is in the context of social rides, where speed is not the point of the ride.Mr Purple wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:22 amWhile I have no objection to people riding e-bikes, I think I'd struggle to have any patience for any on a group ride.
The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).
So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.
But there are plenty of e-road bikes available now that will keep up with fast riders on the flat and slay them on the hills. You may need perseverance rather than patience to ride with them.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby find_bruce » Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:40 am
A 200w pedal assist road bike, which is legal without a speed limit would be ideal, but unavailable.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby g-boaf » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:26 am
Sometimes it's an issue of people with serious health problems might need to have an e-bike just to be able to keep riding with the group they used to ride with, people struggling with inoperable conditions who just want to keep riding with their friends until they get too sick to be able to do so. At least makes their remaining time with us somewhat enjoyable.Mr Purple wrote: ↑Fri Oct 08, 2021 9:22 amWhile I have no objection to people riding e-bikes, I think I'd struggle to have any patience for any on a group ride.
The problem is their flow is completely different - especially if legal (which these sound like).
So they'll do 25km/hr maximum on the flat, then 25km/hr up all the hills. Sometimes increasing to 26km/hr on the downhill sections. It's just frustrating to keep pace with them.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Mr Purple » Fri Oct 08, 2021 11:31 am
There's probably a big difference between the e-bike commuters I encounter and experienced cyclists on e-bikes who are aware of how to turn some pedals around as well.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby celeste boy » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:18 pm
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:51 pm
Any new rider to a group will be an odd fit for a while. If they remain so then it likely to be either the group is not doing what works to change the behaviour to meet that particular groups ettiquette or the rider is not responding.
On the latter it can be that the rider is trying to fit into a group that they will never fit. Again, it is the group that needs to suggest that there are many groups and that they need to look further.
The group needs to use whatever interpersonal skills they have to address the problem.
But first, there is a question to ask of oneself. "Am I the only one having a problem with this rider?" Easily answered. If the answer is "yes" then that gives rise to a different approach which does not focus on the newby.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Mububban » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:51 pm
He set the motor on low and was often at the back of the pack when we encountered undulations and short climbs. So he could have, but chose not to tear off in front. No problems whatsoever matching pace with us on regular bikes.
And on the flat sections where we did above 25kmh, he was able to (just) keep up because the bike wasn't super heavy, but it enabled him to ride while recovering from injury and regaining fitness.
Considerate riders or jerks will be themselves no matter the vehicle.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby RonK » Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:52 pm
Nope - sorry to disappoint you, but perfectly legal ones.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/1 ... kes-272607
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby WyvernRH » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:08 pm
+1 to that. They don't just stop dead at 25kph cos they weigh 2kg more than an average road bike you know. My wife who is 'cough, cough' older than me can happily keep up with me at 35kph on the flat/rolling portions of the Pacific Highway around our way on her Focus Paralane e-bike which weighs in about 12.5 kg as we have it set up.RonK wrote: ↑Thu Oct 21, 2021 8:52 pmNope - sorry to disappoint you, but perfectly legal ones.
https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/1 ... kes-272607
Ok she won't be able to keep up with the 40kph heros but if you decide you want an e-bike then really you should not expect that sort of speed - well, legally I suppose but then you are on a moped not a push bike.
2kg is an extra water bottle and extended toolkit to me - ie nothing to how I ride. My body weight varies by more than that over a couple of days (OK I'm not super fit anymore )
+1 to Mububban as well.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Mr Purple » Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:11 am
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby celeste boy » Thu Nov 04, 2021 1:14 pm
Social day at local velodrome on Melbourne Cup Day.
Novelty races but who doesn't take them seriously?
The Keiren and on the final lap Im 3 inches off the front riders wheel and the guy on the gurney, e bike appears on my left, inches away. Nearly pooped myself!
I know, I should have been riding a lot faster.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Gordonhooker » Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:02 am
I love it - it made me laugh.
I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.
I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:29 pm
Welcome to paths.Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:02 amI love it - it made me laugh.
I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.
I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...
On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.
After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Gordonhooker » Tue Nov 09, 2021 9:07 am
I stick to paths as much as possible and have been riding them under leg power for years - I am aware of path etiquette, it was simply the steeper hills that were my rationale for moving to an ebike.ColinOldnCranky wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:29 pmWelcome to paths.Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:02 amI love it - it made me laugh.
I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.
I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...
On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.
After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Gordonhooker » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 am
Can you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....ColinOldnCranky wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 11:29 pmWelcome to paths.Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 8:02 amI love it - it made me laugh.
I sold my Harley about 2 months ago and I promised myself I would get an ebike or convert one of my existing bikes so I sold one and kept my Avanti Solo 1 fixie but had my Cannondale mountain bike (used it as a commuter) converted as the hills around my place were playing havoc with these senior knee bones of mine. I took it for a spin on Saturday afternoon and enjoyed every minute of the ride. I only used the pedal assist to help with the hills in and out of our area and enjoyed riding again without the pain.
I have a lot to learn about how to get the most out of my new toy... so back on my bike...
On paths pls don't try and replace the Harley in terms of speed and power, which it's only natural that you will miss to a degree. But riding on paths should give different experiences and needs to coexist with the rest of the path users.
After all, different is what makes life interesting, welcome. 'Nuff said.
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby RonK » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:15 am
EUC's have been available for several years - even before e-scooters.Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 amCan you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby Gordonhooker » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:30 am
RonK wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:15 amEUC's have been available for several years - even before e-scooters.Gordonhooker wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:05 amCan you get e-unicycles? Now that would be a hoot.....
Yikes so where do they put the battery and the motor?
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Re: E bikes ruining social rides
Postby trailgumby » Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:18 pm
Reminds me of a guy I encountered one day at Barangaroo, awhile back before all the landscaping was done at the northern end.celeste boy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:18 pm.....but I really wish they wouldn't draft me on their e bikes!
He blew past on an e-bike in street clothes as I was turning left into the northern entrance, calling out "yah, so I'm cheating, deal with it (metaphorical middle finger)". I wouldn't have cared less, but the comment and the attitude could not be left unchallenged.
I was on the 26er Lefty hardtail with the 2.1" Michelin knobbly tyres on, so I spun it up and sat in on his back wheel, easing off. A few seconds later, before I could say "So, you were saying? " he started looking over his shoulder right and left in a panic, and blurted out "But, but I... I can't go as fast as you! "
So I dropped to a harder gear and spun it up again, quipping "that's a shame " and put a hundred metres or so on him before having to button off at the start of the restaurant strip.
Man, I miss those Michelin tubeless tyres. A bit skatey on loose-over-hardpack, but they rolled *really* well, even though they were full UST tubeless (no sealant required). I'm yet to find anything that rolls as well since.
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