War on cars

[Thoglette]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

[mikesbytes]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

While agree that we are swapping ICE for Electric, the problem with preventing Electric sales is that means more ICE sales. This is a separate problem to whether we purchase Electric cars and that solution is to make alternative forms of transport more attractive

[BritniPepper]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

Only if you posit that people are going to have the same rate of car ownership in future. That's unlikely because if it's cheaper, safer, and more convenient to whistle up a robot taxi, why bother having a car that sits idle taking up space for most of the time?

Britni

[opik_bidin]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

Only if you posit that people are going to have the same rate of car ownership in future. That's unlikely because if it's cheaper, safer, and more convenient to whistle up a robot taxi, why bother having a car that sits idle taking up space for most of the time?

Britni

We had this discussion with Uber, Lyft and all those ridesharing options. turns out it destroyed public transport and added more traffic jams

[BritniPepper]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

Only if you posit that people are going to have the same rate of car ownership in future. That's unlikely because if it's cheaper, safer, and more convenient to whistle up a robot taxi, why bother having a car that sits idle taking up space for most of the time?

Britni

We had this discussion with Uber, Lyft and all those ridesharing options. turns out it destroyed public transport and added more traffic jams

If people don't own cars, that's going to mean more room on the roads, not less. Most cars are only used for a small percentage of the day and the rest of the time they just take up space somewhere. If a robot Uber doesn't have a driver, then an idle vehicle can be tucked away somewhere dark and cramped and cold when it's not being used. No need for a driver to get in and out, cram them in like sardines.

Autonomous vehicles can travel at greater speeds and with less distance between - like physically linked - so the road capacity goes right up. Eliminate the need to stop at traffic lights and road capacity jumps up again.

Britni

[tpcycle]

More in The Conversation
Cramming cities full of electric vehicles means we’re still depending on cars — and that’s a huge problem
Kurt Iveson

Associate Professor of Urban Geography and Research Lead, Sydney Policy Lab, University of Sydney

Only if you posit that people are going to have the same rate of car ownership in future. That's unlikely because if it's cheaper, safer, and more convenient to whistle up a robot taxi, why bother having a car that sits idle taking up space for most of the time?

Britni

We had this discussion with Uber, Lyft and all those ridesharing options. turns out it destroyed public transport and added more traffic jams

Yeah but how are you going to sell the dream without good marketing?

I do mean sell and I do mean dream and I don't mean good.

[find_bruce]

When do flying car's arrive?

[fat and old]

When do flying car's arrive?

According to the How and Why book I had in Grade 5 (and yes, these were considered to be "scientific"), last year

And I shoulda had my silver boots by now!

[BritniPepper]

Only if you posit that people are going to have the same rate of car ownership in future. That's unlikely because if it's cheaper, safer, and more convenient to whistle up a robot taxi, why bother having a car that sits idle taking up space for most of the time?

We had this discussion with Uber, Lyft and all those ridesharing options. turns out it destroyed public transport and added more traffic jams

Yeah but how are you going to sell the dream without good marketing?

I do mean sell and I do mean dream and I don't mean good.

It sells itself. Assume a self-driving car has the same TCO as a taxi - a Falcon or Holden as was - you can then put it out on the road 24/7 offering rides at a buck a go and it will return a 50% profit. The big saving is that the owner doesn't have to pay a driver and the passenger doesn't need to own a car or have a license.

Britni

[P!N20]

When do flying car's arrive?

Patience, Bruce: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57651843

[tpcycle]

When do flying car's arrive?

Patience, Bruce: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57651843

So soon I won't only have to watch out for Moron Motorists trying to hit me from the left, the right, the rear, the front, but also from above?

[Thoglette]

From across the dutch…bro
Aggressive marketing has driven the rise of the double-cab ute on New Zealand streets — time to hit the brakes?

[Comedian]

From across the dutch…bro
Aggressive marketing has driven the rise of the double-cab ute on New Zealand streets — time to hit the brakes?

Meanwhile.. in Australia.. our government is absolutely certain that it is unwilling to offer incentives for people to buy electric cars which it describes as "luxury vehicles".

Of course.. they are prepared to encourage them to buy diesel utes with generous tax incentives...

https://thenewdaily.com.au/finance/2021 ... 2020210611

[opik_bidin]

A Good Thread on car culture, and I see its happening in many countries. cars getting bigger and bigger, 4WD, etc

https://twitter.com/PostCultRev/status/ ... 0714700805

I’ve seen some different stats on this but I’d say conservative estimate is that larger pick-ups and SUVs on the road has caused pedestrian fatalities increase by about a quarter since the mid 1980s. Basically all gains made in auto safety features erased over the last 40 years.

They are also ridiculously expensive vehicles. The MSRP on a base model Ford F-150 is about $29,000. But I’ll be clear, basically no one buys that. That’s a single-row seating vehicle with an AM/FM radio in it.

The same model fully-loaded, like you go down the features list and check every box, will run you close to $80,000. That’s basically luxury car prices. And most the people buying them are going to finance some or most of that, so just go ahead and add $10-20,000 to that.

I’ve said this before, but car dealerships do not sell cars, they sell debt with a car attached.

Now you can think up a myriad of examples of how you, personally, need a pick-up or the one time that it was useful to have one or whatever. But your experience is stacked against the literal millions of pick-up owners who bought them as engorged status symbols.

The fact is most practical uses of a pick up can be handled just as well 1) in a smaller vehicle 2) are so uncommon that it’s cheaper to occasionally rent something. Owning a truck the size of a WWII Sherman tank serves no practical purpose and makes you look !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! ridiculous

If you like this thread and want to support other things I do there’s @SynodusPod
which is not a truck but is a history podcast about death.

Gonna reiterate this because it keeps coming up but “you” and “most people” are not the same thing. You personally having a regular use for a large new pick-up is not a counterpoint to the fact the VAST majority of people who buy them are suburbanites buying a status symbol.

Your personal experience isn’t the same as sales figures and consumer surveys. If you think it’s great that a bunch of middle managers are out there buying four tons of steel with the acceleration of a 1990s Ferrari to pick up their kids from school, then whatever.

Some people have brought up snow and ice conditions, which, !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!’ lol. First off if you’re regularly driving in snow deep enough to justify a pick-up and you don’t have a plow attached to the front then you 1) work on a farm or for the Forest Service or 2) are a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! moron

If you’re talking about icy roads then you’re talking about just adding weight and momentum to a situation where stopping isn’t happening easily. Consistently best-rated winter drivers are almost always AWD sedans.

If you personally can think of situations on ice where a truck is better than a Subaru Outback and ISN’T just going to fishtail your ass into a curb, then good for you but I guarantee your insurance company begs to differ, and they have a bigger dataset than you.

[g-boaf]

A Good Thread on car culture, and I see its happening in many countries. cars getting bigger and bigger, 4WD, etc

https://twitter.com/PostCultRev/status/ ... 0714700805

I don't generally have problems with those bigger cars, it's the typical Imprezas, Mazda 3s or Camrys, the normal average cars that even many cyclists like to own that would give me trouble. Even the humble Skoda wagon - the type advertised heavily during cycling race broadcasts on TV.

I had the same Impreza hatchback close pass me on multiple days, the exact same one... Since I knew by then what time the car went through that same section of road I could very well go out again and follow them at another time...

As for big pickups and utes, I had one crew-cab ute slow down at night when passing me to warn that my back light had gone off - most appreciated given it was a very dark road.

[Mr Purple]

Of my near misses, I'd estimate a third are dual cab utes (usually the most aggressive ones), a third are SUVs, and a third are small sedans or hatchbacks. Honestly, I think I probably notice the utes more because they're a) slow and therefore always at redline to move and hence louder and b) always closer.

A highlight was on one of my laps of Cootha last weekend where some idiot in a Triton passed me doing 90km/hr+ in the 50 zone, gave me about an inch of room and then overcooked it into the next corner and got it completely crossed up and almost drove it off the road. Even though I'm ED trained and one of the best people to deal with the consequences of that I would have had to have a long think about the Hippocratic oath before stopping to render aid there.

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with dual cabs, particularly when used for the designed purpose. I think there is something wrong with the wiring of some people who chooses a 6m+ long, 2L engined, cart springed behemoth as daily transport without any real justification for work purposes. They're awful to drive, I can understand why they often seem to be angry.

[warthog1]

It would have been very hard to not wear the blinkers and go straight past had the turkey crashed.

[Cyclophiliac]

As usual, every country BUT Australia leads the way in moving to more environmentally friendly transport. In this case it's still a proposal, but there's no chance of such a proposal occurring here

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... e-and-play

[Thoglette]

As usual, every country BUT Australia leads the way in moving to more environmentally friendly transport. In this case it's still a proposal, but there's no chance of such a proposal occurring here

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... e-and-play

A citizens’ initiative calling for a ban on private car use in central Berlin would create the largest car-free urban area in the world.

The campaign group Berlin Autofrei has taken the first step in a process known as the people’s referendum, submitting a petition with more than 50,000 signatures calling for a ban covering the 88 sq km (34 sq mile) area circled by the “S-Bahn ring” trainline – an area roughly equal in size to all the boroughs in London’s zones 1 and 2.

People who depend on their cars for their trade or because they have impaired mobility would be exempt, as would emergency services. Everyone else would each be permitted up to 12 rented car journeys a year – in case they need to move house, for example.

[Cyclophiliac]

As usual, every country BUT Australia leads the way in moving to more environmentally friendly transport. In this case it's still a proposal, but there's no chance of such a proposal occurring here

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... e-and-play

A citizens’ initiative calling for a ban on private car use in central Berlin would create the largest car-free urban area in the world.

The campaign group Berlin Autofrei has taken the first step in a process known as the people’s referendum, submitting a petition with more than 50,000 signatures calling for a ban covering the 88 sq km (34 sq mile) area circled by the “S-Bahn ring” trainline – an area roughly equal in size to all the boroughs in London’s zones 1 and 2.

People who depend on their cars for their trade or because they have impaired mobility would be exempt, as would emergency services. Everyone else would each be permitted up to 12 rented car journeys a year – in case they need to move house, for example.

Sorry, I don't understand. Were you commenting on my post? Did I do something wrong?

[Thoglette]

Did I do something wrong?

Not at all.
Just quoting a few lines from the article to provide some idea of what’s in it.
(Some days I just post the link, sometimes some context)

[Thoglette]

The UK is trying to "even up" some non-MV infrastructure

English cities to receive transport boost of almost £7bn in budget
(The Guardian)
The intent is to get some infrastructure in the northern cities that's almost as good as London.

£7bn is a good start, make it an annual spend and you might be onto something.

For reference: the global luxury car market was valued at around USD 410 billion in 2020 and the UK is 3.3% of the globabl GDP, so might reasonably be allocated a share of that market of about USD 13 billion. Or about £9bn at today's rates.

Yup, more spend on Rollers, Lambos etc than public transport infrastructure.

The sad bit is the footnote

Only about £1.5bn of what the Treasury is styling a “local transport revolution” appears to be new money, with £4.2bn having been previously announced in 2019 for cities, and the bus funding coming from a £3bn fund promised by Boris Johnson last year.

[Thoglette]

Meanwhile (and maybe this should be in the autonomous car thread) some commentary on the American belief that driver error is the cause of 90%+ of accidents (hint, it ain't necessarily so)
The Deadly Myth That Human Error Causes Most Car Crashes

In 2015, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, a branch of the U.S. Department of Transportation, published a two-page memo declaring that “the critical reason, which is the last event in the crash causal chain, was assigned to the driver in 94% of the crashes.” The memo, which was based on the NHTSA’s own analysis of crashes, then offered a key caveat: “Although the critical reason is an important part of the description of events leading up to the crash, it is not intended to be interpreted as the cause of the crash.”

It all seems so 1990 but given the cries of "Australian exceptionalism" it's not so far away.

[Thoglette]

Despite less cars, more pedestrians died in 2020 than 2019 (+21%) in the USoA.

NBC reports: Less cars => more speed. Plus distracted drivers and more lethal vehicles

'Mind-boggling': Pedestrian deaths surged in 2020, despite fewer cars on the road

[mikesbytes]

Despite less cars, more pedestrians died in 2020 than 2019 (+21%) in the USoA.

NBC reports: Less cars => more speed. Plus distracted drivers and more lethal vehicles

'Mind-boggling': Pedestrian deaths surged in 2020, despite fewer cars on the road

I suspect that one of the factors could be an increase in speed as a result of less congestion.

In regards too the comments about SUV's being more deadly, the design rules should be changed to improve the safety of pedestrian's in the advent of a collision. An issue not mentioned in the article is about head strike, the pedestrian's head will suffer a lesser shock if it hits the bonnet rather than the windscreen and while the location of head strike is a combination of design and speed one manufacturer (I forget which one) developed a system where in the advent of a collision the bonnet would pop reducing the chance of a windscreen head strike and also making the bonnet softer.