Bikes not fit for purpose in the Pro peleton

[warthog1]

Another thought. If this shudder is a problem with MCs as well, why haven't engineers looked back at rim brakes and created a new braking system to avoid it? It could win races and revolutionize the MC industry.

It ain't too much of a problem. Carbon discs and one or two fingers on the brake lever.




Can watch that man's work endlessly.
Been watching m/cycle racing a long time and never seen such amazing skill and bravery
Hope he can get back there after his broken arm.

And another one. Watching Marquez replays instead of the giro for a while

[g-boaf]

One aspect I've noticed with bicycle disk brakes that I don't see on my motorcycle disc brakes is the shudder with hard front braking. One only has to look down at their front hub under hard braking to see the fork vibrating forward and back. This can't be good on a wet road entering a corner in a race, or otherwise. I don't know why they can't make rotors that run smoother on the pads. Do the pads need to be bigger to average the variation out more? If the rotors were solid and uniform in shape, would that help? I'd guess that both of these changes would probably make the brakes weight too much.

Below is a pic of my motorcycle's brake pad against a couple of bicycle disc pads. See the difference in length.

I haven’t noticed the shuddering on my S5. That’s the first time I’ve had any disc brake bicycle. It stops way better than my Canyon - and that wasn’t bad.

The S5 is simply the bike I use all the time now. I got caught on the rim brake Canyon (with alloy wheels) in heavy downpours and ended up with hardly any ability to stop. I can put up with being drenched, but having to go slow as well because the brakes went silly makes me quite grumpy. That was on a 50km commute ride. That wasn’t fun.

I’ve ridden the S5 on some poor quality roads here, but compared with what I have ridden on in France, our bad roads are smooth. And over there it’s not just bad quality road surface, but you are inevitably going damn fast as well. Even me weighing nothing - I get up to 85km/h without much effort, that’s enough for me on some roads I’m not familiar with or only see once a year.

I thought it would be one of those apparently nasty aero bikes, never expected it to have such nice handling and actually be pretty comfortable too - compared with a bike that was very, very good (and very UCI illegal). I ride both rim brake bikes or disc brake, I won’t complain either way. I’m fortunate to have two really great bikes.

One doesn’t go out much any more because it is irreplaceable - not made anymore. S5 is more common, my other one isn’t.

[Nobody]

It ain't too much of a problem. Carbon discs and one or two fingers on the brake lever.

Yeah, I couldn't see any movement of the front hub on the first video. On the slow-mo of the second at 03:33 the brake could have contributed to the movement on the way into the corner. But then it could be just be the front tyre clambering for grip on the edge too.

I haven’t noticed the shuddering on my S5. That’s the first time I’ve had any disc brake bicycle.

It's something you're more likely to hear and only see a small amount of movement at the front hub. Not enough to be a problem in dry weather. But could be a problem at the limits in wet weather. However you may have a better disc brake that costs more than my bike. In that case they may have improved it significantly. I can't say. I'm just relating my experience.

[am50em]

From Cycling news

We entered the corner on the limit at high speed," he said.

"My racing line wasn’t perfect as I didn’t take all the road. I planned to overtake Gino [Mader] at the exit and go into the front. The corner surprised me, and it was closer than expected. I lost traction on my rear wheel due to the high speed. I was able to catch the bike, but doing so, I was closer to the corner on my left.

"Usually, I wouldn’t crash, but due to the curb, I clipped it with my left pedal, which is evident from the damage. Because of that, my bike went completely sideways, and I hit the curb with my front wheel.

[MichaelB]

From Cycling news

We entered the corner on the limit at high speed," he said.

"My racing line wasn’t perfect as I didn’t take all the road. I planned to overtake Gino [Mader] at the exit and go into the front. The corner surprised me, and it was closer than expected. I lost traction on my rear wheel due to the high speed. I was able to catch the bike, but doing so, I was closer to the corner on my left.

"Usually, I wouldn’t crash, but due to the curb, I clipped it with my left pedal, which is evident from the damage. Because of that, my bike went completely sideways, and I hit the curb with my front wheel.

Beat me to it.

NOTHING to do with the disc brakes at all

[MichaelB]

Maybe the explanation from Matej will put all the conspiracy rumours to bed.

I watched several videos and was never convinced that he locked his breaks such that it broke the forks and flipped him, and especially with the poor angle and view.

Matej’s explanation is much more believable. Luckily, he is OK

[lone rider]

Not unusual at all for employees to tow the company line but its quite clear on the footage his left pedal is near the 12 o clock position, as it would be to take a corner like this, therefore making it impossible for it to clip the kerb/road as Matej would like the minions to believe. After watching it on loop its now clear to me the fork snapping causes him to go over the bars, what causes the fork failure is up for debate but its a highly unusual incident.

[Nobody]

After watching it on loop its now clear to me the fork snapping causes him to go over the bars...

So you're saying it goes from a disc brake conspiracy theory to a CF failure mode conspiracy theory? Well at least we keep ourselves entertained.

[MichaelB]

Not unusual at all for employees to tow the company line but its quite clear on the footage his left pedal is near the 12 o clock position, as it would be to take a corner like this, therefore making it impossible for it to clip the kerb/road as Matej would like the minions to believe. After watching it on loop its now clear to me the fork snapping causes him to go over the bars, what causes the fork failure is up for debate but its a highly unusual incident.

That may be true, but reckon the fork failure and the consequent OTB can easily be explained by the wheel hitting the kerb rather than brake locking up

[lone rider]

After watching it on loop its now clear to me the fork snapping causes him to go over the bars...

So you're saying it goes from a disc brake conspiracy theory to a CF failure mode conspiracy theory? Well at least we keep ourselves entertained.

Disc brakes caused the initial slide out mostly because of user fault, with lesser stopping power he would of been fine. Mohoric's version of events has lost all credibility by claiming he pedal striked when he clearly hasn't.

[stevenaaus]

That's one of the major problems with disc. Too little effort on lever when rider is unbalanced/distracted can lock wheels..

But afaics in this case he probably just slid out / hit a pothole and lost it. Didn't look brake related to me when I saw the replays.

[warthog1]

That's one of the major problems with disc. Too little effort on lever when rider is unbalanced/distracted can lock wheels..

Based on what experience do you say that?
I'm not hearing it from the multiple riders here who have gone to disc.
Reliable braking no matter the weather and superior modulation.
I don't hear or see any major problems.

Power and modulation in disc brakes is more than possible if you watch the motogp clips I showed earlier.
Pulling up 157kg dry weight machines from 300+ kmh modulated with one or two finger braking. I don't see bicycles as anywhere near as demanding an application

Through axles and removing brake wear from the rim are 2 other major advantages imo.
Sold me for my next bike anyway.

[Aus275]

I'm not saying that disc brakes caused the problem, however, instead of them being the issue perhaps the issue is riders still not fully adapted to the newer technology.

[MichaelB]

It's amazing (actually, it isn't ) that this has turned into an anti-disc brake thread.

It's amazing how one of the better pro peloton descenders has been annointed as "one who is not adjusted to thye new technology" by people who either haven't ridden discs, haven't raced, haven't ridden down a mountain pass at full noise (and not just fast, but on the dge of traction), let alone raced down a mountain pass and have passed judgement as to what caused his crash.

Seriously

[g-boaf]

That's one of the major problems with disc. Too little effort on lever when rider is unbalanced/distracted can lock wheels..

But afaics in this case he probably just slid out / hit a pothole and lost it. Didn't look brake related to me when I saw the replays.

I've never used disc brakes before September last year and I have adjusted to them. You learn how to use them pretty quick. I don't know about other manufacturer's disc brake offerings, but the SRAM Red ones on my Cervelo are great, the feel is very precise - that's what I really love about them - aside from the way they work in the rain.

The hydraulic Magura RT8 TT brakes (rim brakes, hydraulic actuation) also have a very light feel for quite big stopping power so you had to be very careful with those too. Most of you won't have any experience with them because they are very uncommon and were very expensive. It took me a while to get used to them because the power applied for the effort at the lever was quite a lot. But then you quickly realise that you only need a moderate touch on the levers to get the braking needed. And the feel of the levers was very solid too, provided there is no air in the lines.

They had another fault,eventually the seals in the brake levers would perish and the thing would leak Magura 'royal blood' everywhere.

[Nobody]

OK, if it isn't about disc brakes - Which is fine. I've had a road bike with disc brakes for over 10 years and I would buy another one with disc brakes - I'll comment on the original statement.

Many former pro riders are commenting along the lines that bikes are being forced upon the sport by an industry solely intent on promoting new ways of generating income.

...

Cue the comments

To some extent I thought this had always been the case. Pros should realize they are just marketing tools for the manufacturers. They get paid and so are part of the industry. If they have a problem with being told what to ride, then they have the choice to go and get what some would call "a real job" doing something else. Manufacturers have a responsibility to their owners or share holders to maximise market share and therefore profits by whatever means available to them. If the manufacturers are getting more insistent about what the pros ride in recent years as sales competition gets stronger. Why is that a surprise to anyone?

The manufacturers can only lead the market so far. In the end, if the general public doesn't see the value in what is on offer, they won't buy it. The windsurfing industry was a good example of that. They tried to lead the market into more and more expensive equipment for more and more specific uses until most of the customer base (including myself) got out of the sport. I can see the bicycle industry heading the same way. I doubt people need bicycles over $4000 just to go riding for fun and/or exercise. But that is the way the industry is pushing, especially with dual suspension mountain bikes. They want the customer to be self conscious about being on a bike that isn't good enough to get the respect of fellow riders in their area of the sport/recreation. To some extent the marketing must be working, otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't spend the money on it.

I take my old 26" rigid, no dropper post, v-brake on back, triple chainring, 8 speed XC bike to Hornsby Moutain Bike Trail regularly. The bike originally cost me $30 on EBay about a decade ago. I see some fancy bikes there and hear some comments about my bike not being good enough. But in the end I'm just there for some exercise and I rarely hold anyone up. When I hear those comments, I just remember that the comments are the indirect work of the manufacturer's marketing.

[g-boaf]

I see some fancy bikes there and hear some comments about my bike not being good enough. But in the end I'm just there for some exercise and I rarely hold anyone up. When I hear those comments, I just remember that the comments are the indirect work of the manufacturer's marketing.

When someone has time to comment about someone else's bike not being good enough, they should just spend that time riding. What someone else's bike is doesn't matter at all. You can have the most super-duper bike in the world and it's nothing if you don't ride it properly or have the engine to make it go. To do that, you've got to spend time at that.

[Nobody]

I see some fancy bikes there and hear some comments about my bike not being good enough. But in the end I'm just there for some exercise and I rarely hold anyone up. When I hear those comments, I just remember that the comments are the indirect work of the manufacturer's marketing.

When someone has time to comment about someone else's bike not being good enough, they should just spend that time riding. What someone else's bike is doesn't matter at all. You can have the most super-duper bike in the world and it's nothing if you don't ride it properly or have the engine to make it go. To do that, you've got to spend time at that.

Yes, true. It was just a good illustration that the indirect marketing message is getting through to at least some. If not to all of us to some degree.

[Mububban]

Watched a video of the crash - horrifying stuff.
Comments from that video:

"Matej's post on Instagram: I was lucky today. A misjudged corner, slipped rear wheel that I managed to hold but then I hit the rock-bed and went over the handlebars.
I feel okay now. No broken bones, just minor bruises and minor concussion, being now monitored by our medical staff @teambahrainvictorious.
Disappointed to leave @giroditalia but more determined than ever for my next race"

"Mohorič said he caught concrete with his inside pedal (after locking rear wheel and correction). His words for Slovenian national radio."

The forks snapping seem to suggest a big impact?

[nemo57]

As @RonK said: classic highside. They are always nasty. I do not care to recall mine.

[jasonc]

2. Rim brakes have anti-lock function built-in.
3. Riders never went over handlebars until disc brakes introduced.

I've been OTB with rim brakes. Sure, it wasn't in a race, but it was in a situation where I needed to stop in a hurry.

I've been over the bars with v-brakes