Gravel bike

emilykostos
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Gravel bike

Postby emilykostos » Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm

Hello!

I love road cycling as well as bike packing and want to do more off-road.
I have recently bought a hardtail MTB to use for bike packing off road and trying out MTB'ing. I thought I could kills two birds with the one stone and get a CX/Gravel bike to do road cycling with, as well as bike-packing on roads, as the hardtail is steel and quite a lot of unnecessary weight for roads.
My question is whether I will be much slower on the road on CX/gravel bike vs a road bike, given the tyres are not slick.. I've had a look at the Cannondale topstone range and well as Giants - mostly models with an aluminium frame with carbon fork.

Would love to hear any thoughts or other recommendations !

Emily :)

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby AUbicycles » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:30 am

emilykostos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm
My question is whether I will be much slower on the road on CX/gravel bike vs a road bike, given the tyres are not slick
A good question and it depends a lot on the tyres. Some Gravel bikes are intended to accommodate both slick and knobbly tyres with an underlying idea of having two wheelsets. Changing tyres regularly is not a fun idea and I feel the majority of people pick a tyre to match there most frequent riding locations so tend to be a wider tyre with a little tread.

It is a given that a Gravel bike will be faster than a MTB on the road.

But a Gravel bike with small tread may only be marginally slower - but it depends on the tyre choice and there is a fairly broad spectrum. The thing you need to consider with the tyre selection is how much you will be limiting off-road grip, handling and comfort so it could be a balance. Returning to the question, Gravel bikes with the right tyres can still be pretty fast and give you a lot of the road cycling joy and flexibility to tackle unsealed roads and tracks.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am

I'm intending to get a gravel bike as an all-rounder and as a credit card tourer. While I don't expect a gravel bike to be as fast as a road bike, there are plenty of fast rolling tyres to choose from. It's likely the rider will be the limiting factor, not the bike.
Last edited by RonK on Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby mogwaiboi » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:20 pm

I've been using a Giant TCX with 35c / 38c Panaracer Gravel King SK tyres since 2017 for gravel riding, it's been great. I don't find it that much slower than a road bike, maybe a few km/hr. Just means I get a better workout and it's way more comfortable with fatter tyres running low pressures. It's a carbon model but I originally intended to buy the base model alu to try out off road riding. I changed out the gearing to be 48/31 with an 11/40T cassette as I like to be able to ride up walking tracks and other steep technical areas.

They didn't have gravel specific bikes back then, but if I had my time again I'd possibly look at one of the specific gravel bikes instead of a CX for the more relaxed geometry. I'm well used to it now though.

In my opinion as long as you get something with clearance for at least 40c tyres (and suitable gearing for your intended riding) I don't think it really matters, especially with the extra weight for bikepacking. I used mine around the Otways recently with a very full 11ltr seatpack and it was fine. I started with 35c tyres, then moved to 38c and now will try and squeeze in some 43c...more comfort and grip is always a good thing!

One of my top picks would be the Flanders Forte, a mate just built one up after an insurance claim and he's well happy with it. It's not alu but not crazy expensive either. The Canyon Grail alu is another one to check out if you don't mind buying online, just be careful as their sizing is pretty much one size bigger than most other brands.
Last edited by mogwaiboi on Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby Mububban » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:23 pm

emilykostos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm
Hello!

I love road cycling as well as bike packing and want to do more off-road.
I have recently bought a hardtail MTB to use for bike packing off road and trying out MTB'ing. I thought I could kills two birds with the one stone and get a CX/Gravel bike to do road cycling with, as well as bike-packing on roads, as the hardtail is steel and quite a lot of unnecessary weight for roads.
My question is whether I will be much slower on the road on CX/gravel bike vs a road bike, given the tyres are not slick.. I've had a look at the Cannondale topstone range and well as Giants - mostly models with an aluminium frame with carbon fork.

Would love to hear any thoughts or other recommendations !

Emily :)

Hop on Youtube, GCN and others have done a load of "gravel vs road bike" test videos:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +road+bike

Basic results - yes road is faster, but not as much as you might think. And a simple tyre swap from gravel tyres to lighter road tyres made a big difference.

Depending on budget, you could a gravel bike + road wheels/tyres and effectively have two bikes in one :)
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby Mofra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:54 pm

RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am
I'm intending to get a gravel bike as an all-rounder and as a credit card tourer. While I don't expect a gravel bike to be as fast as a road bike, there are plenty of fast rolling tyres to choose from. It's likely the rider will be the limiting factor, not the bike.
If you're looking for more of a credit card tourer and all-rounder, you open up your options as needing bosses for fork mounts and perhaps even a rear rack aren't as important.

As mogwaiboi has noted, the entry-level Canyon is a decent option - got a good review here:
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... vel-bikes/

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:09 pm

Mofra wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:54 pm
RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am
I'm intending to get a gravel bike as an all-rounder and as a credit card tourer. While I don't expect a gravel bike to be as fast as a road bike, there are plenty of fast rolling tyres to choose from. It's likely the rider will be the limiting factor, not the bike.
If you're looking for more of a credit card tourer and all-rounder, you open up your options as needing bosses for fork mounts and perhaps even a rear rack aren't as important.

As mogwaiboi has noted, the entry-level Canyon is a decent option - got a good review here:
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... vel-bikes/
Thanks for the advice, but I have years of experience touring and bikepacking, know exactly what I want, and have identified the bike that satisfies my requirements. Oh, and entry-level bikes are of no interest to me.

https://wilier.com/en/my2021/int/endura ... bikes/jena

The only decision remaining is the build - will it be Sram Force eTap AXS Wide 2x12, Shimano GRX Di2 2x11 or Campagnolo Ekar 1x13. All include carbon wheels.
Last edited by RonK on Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby Mofra » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:22 pm

RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:09 pm
Thanks for the advice, but I have years of experience touring and bikepacking, know exactly what I want, and have identified the bike that satisfies my requirements. Oh, and entry-level bikes are of no interest to me.

https://wilier.com/en/my2021/int/endura ... bikes/jena

The only decision remaining is the build - will it be Sram Force AXS Wide 2x12, GRX Di2 2x11 or Campagnolo Ekar 1x13. All include carbon wheels.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby blizzard » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm

RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:09 pm
Mofra wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:54 pm
RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:52 am
I'm intending to get a gravel bike as an all-rounder and as a credit card tourer. While I don't expect a gravel bike to be as fast as a road bike, there are plenty of fast rolling tyres to choose from. It's likely the rider will be the limiting factor, not the bike.
If you're looking for more of a credit card tourer and all-rounder, you open up your options as needing bosses for fork mounts and perhaps even a rear rack aren't as important.

As mogwaiboi has noted, the entry-level Canyon is a decent option - got a good review here:
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... vel-bikes/
Thanks for the advice, but I have years of experience touring and bikepacking, know exactly what I want, and have identified the bike that satisfies my requirements. Oh, and entry-level bikes are of no interest to me.

https://wilier.com/en/my2021/int/endura ... bikes/jena

The only decision remaining is the build - will it be Sram Force eTap AXS Wide 2x12, Shimano GRX Di2 2x11 or Campagnolo Ekar 1x13. All include carbon wheels.
If I had the money I would go Ekar with Campy wheels.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby nemo57 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:50 pm

I picked up a Cannondale Topstone lefty before Xmas, to go with the '76 Hillman roadie. An impulse purchase motivated by a healthy discount and the pleasure of riding unmade roads in the dappled sunshine to the natural sounds of birdsong, babbling creeks, roaring two-strokes and distant firearms.

I'd say it's about 10% slower than the roadie after allowing for different surfaces, tho it runs a WTB Byway rear tyre that has road-smooth centre tread (not so flash on slippery dirt climbs, that one).

It is pretty comfortable in its way: slightly greater reach to the bars, no real difference in stem height (because I run a technomic stem on the Hillman), and - whether by reason of the 47mm tyres, the 30mm travel or both - suspension. But it's not a chalk and cheese comparison with the 44 year old steel-frame on 25mm tyres over much of the same country. What it will do that the Hillman won't is make 1-2inch bumps less unpleasant. Otherwise, it floats where the roadie feels directly connected to the path.

As suggested, a spare pair of road wheels would make it a very good all-rounder unless I were wanting to get that final 11/10ths of speed from my ageing body.

And it's the first bike I've had that stops, although I have found that trailing rear brake descending bends through the loose stuff is a delicate business if you wish to avoid the rear locking up and pitching you into the fence.

Were it me, and I in the market for just one bike, I'd ask Gordon Hill to make me a hard tail steel frame that could accommodate both fat and skinny tyres; while the suspension is nice to have, I'm not fully persuaded that it makes an enormous difference. I would, though, pick steel over aluminium for its ride qualities.

There again, that Wilier looks the goods, Ron!
Last edited by nemo57 on Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:09 pm

blizzard wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:43 pm
RonK wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:09 pm
Mofra wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 3:54 pm

If you're looking for more of a credit card tourer and all-rounder, you open up your options as needing bosses for fork mounts and perhaps even a rear rack aren't as important.

As mogwaiboi has noted, the entry-level Canyon is a decent option - got a good review here:
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers ... vel-bikes/
Thanks for the advice, but I have years of experience touring and bikepacking, know exactly what I want, and have identified the bike that satisfies my requirements. Oh, and entry-level bikes are of no interest to me.

https://wilier.com/en/my2021/int/endura ... bikes/jena

The only decision remaining is the build - will it be Sram Force eTap AXS Wide 2x12, Shimano GRX Di2 2x11 or Campagnolo Ekar 1x13. All include carbon wheels.
If I had the money I would go Ekar with Campy wheels.
Yes, I'm leaning that way. Sram has a short battery life which could be a hindrance while travelling, so it's between Ekar and GRX Di2. I have used Campy before long-term - just not settled in my mind about 1X but mechanical shifting would be hassle-free when travelling. The carbon Shamals are very classy.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:29 pm

nemo57 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:50 pm
There again, that Wilier looks the goods, Ron!
After years living the roadie life I'm no longer interested in that kind of riding. I gave my Kuota Kredo to ldrcycles last Xmas in exchange for a slab of beer. He's been making good use of it I think.

So the Wilier will be fine for the kind of local cycling I do now, and it will be perfect for the fast bikepacking trips I'm thinking about. I still have a Salsa Fargo for serious back roads bikepacking. And a titanium full-dress tourer that I must get around to selling.
Last edited by RonK on Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby nemo57 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:34 pm

Now here's a question, Ron: tubeless or tubes?
I leant towards tubeless for the Topstone, but am having second thoughts: there are a lot of places Uber doesn't go, you-beaut Stan's puncture darts or not.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby emilykostos » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:11 pm

Thanks so much everyone - that is really helpful! it doesn't sound like a gravel bike will weigh me down too much at all if I am doing road cycling too. I think i'm wise to get a gravel bike with a little tread, as I will mostly be riding roads and doing the occasional bike packing trip on it.

I will check out the Canyon Grail, as well as the Cannondale Topstone. I might go with the latter as I'd like to be able to try it before buying. The Flanders Forte looks so nice, but a bit out of my price range unfortuantely.

Really appreciate everyone's feedback!

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby emilykostos » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:13 pm

mogwaiboi wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:20 pm
I've been using a Giant TCX with 35c / 38c Panaracer Gravel King SK tyres since 2017 for gravel riding, it's been great. I don't find it that much slower than a road bike, maybe a few km/hr. Just means I get a better workout and it's way more comfortable with fatter tyres running low pressures. It's a carbon model but I originally intended to buy the base model alu to try out off road riding. I changed out the gearing to be 48/31 with an 11/40T cassette as I like to be able to ride up walking tracks and other steep technical areas.

They didn't have gravel specific bikes back then, but if I had my time again I'd possibly look at one of the specific gravel bikes instead of a CX for the more relaxed geometry. I'm well used to it now though.

In my opinion as long as you get something with clearance for at least 40c tyres (and suitable gearing for your intended riding) I don't think it really matters, especially with the extra weight for bikepacking. I used mine around the Otways recently with a very full 11ltr seatpack and it was fine. I started with 35c tyres, then moved to 38c and now will try and squeeze in some 43c...more comfort and grip is always a good thing!

One of my top picks would be the Flanders Forte, a mate just built one up after an insurance claim and he's well happy with it. It's not alu but not crazy expensive either. The Canyon Grail alu is another one to check out if you don't mind buying online, just be careful as their sizing is pretty much one size bigger than most other brands.
Thanks a lot for this - I will look into this bike too. Appreciate the detail about what you placement, as i also want flexibility to climb big hills !

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:48 pm

nemo57 wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 5:34 pm
Now here's a question, Ron: tubeless or tubes?
I leant towards tubeless for the Topstone, but am having second thoughts: there are a lot of places Uber doesn't go, you-beaut Stan's puncture darts or not.
It's not a problem for me - my Fargo has been setup tubeless since I completed the build in 2016. And my e-mtb has been setup tubeless since I bought it two years ago. In that time I haven't had a flat in either. I've found the setup process easy and not at all messy. So when the gravel bike arrives a tubeless setup is the first thing I'll do.
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby nemo57 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 8:56 pm

Aye tanx :D

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby blizzard » Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:57 am

emilykostos wrote:
Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:11 pm
Thanks so much everyone - that is really helpful! it doesn't sound like a gravel bike will weigh me down too much at all if I am doing road cycling too. I think i'm wise to get a gravel bike with a little tread, as I will mostly be riding roads and doing the occasional bike packing trip on it.

I will check out the Canyon Grail, as well as the Cannondale Topstone. I might go with the latter as I'd like to be able to try it before buying. The Flanders Forte looks so nice, but a bit out of my price range unfortuantely.

Really appreciate everyone's feedback!

I would also add the Norco Search range. Really it probably comes down to what is in stock.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby cancan64 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:56 pm

If I had to cut down to 1 bike it would be the gravel bike, I hardly ride the others. Road bike I find is faster but that is more as its lighter and better geared for down hills (only use it for climbing days) , I have just dusted the 29er since I moved by Stromlo Mountain bike park but there are still some sections where I have been faster on the gravel bike, otherwise on the gravel bike I run 3 wheelsets, 27.5x2.1 for rides that are predominately single tracks or where I feel I want a wider tyre for grip and bump absorption (Hunt100), commuting wheelset which runs Panaracer Gravel King SS (Semi slick) for easy off road and bike paths... and then main wheels running 43c Panaracer Gravel Kings SK, can do everything and all running tubeless. also running 2x di2 which is set as syncro shift so all I have to worry about is changing the rear gear. This also freed up a port so I can have a shifter on the aero bars, a must if you are doing long bikepacking trips. Gears are a mixture of Ultegra/XT and XTR but taht was all that was about when I built it, redoing I would go GRX, a lot cheaper and works well on friends bikes
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby matt1986 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:48 am

Sorry to revive an old thread, but this discussion seemed very relevant to a decision I've made recently - which is to use a 'gravel' frame and two wheelsets to cover all bases.

The industry seems to have been converging on the design principle of "all road" bikes, particularly after disc brakes and wider tyres became accepted as road standards, but it was really the prospect of Campagnolo Ekar (i.e. 1x with tight high-end spacing for road use) that made the concept viable in my eyes.

To that end, I had Ian Michelson from the LostWorkshop build me a fantastic steel frame from some Columbus Cento tubes I had been hoarding since they were released in 2019. The geometry is intended for racey gravel riding, but the flip switch in the Columbus Futura Cross fork allows me to adjust the rake for a more lively road configuration. One wheelset uses 43mm Panaracer Gravel King SKs with the rake set at 52, the other uses 28mm Panaracer Gravel King slicks with the rake set at 47.

The result is a bike that truly excels at both applications, and I've been able to replace my road bike without feeling as though I'm really missing anything.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby ausFred » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:09 am

emilykostos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm
My question is whether I will be much slower on the road on CX/gravel bike vs a road bike, given the tyres are not slick.

Emily :)
In my experience, around 10% slower (28mm slicks v 38mm gravel tyres). This is on the same bike, a CX frame with reasonably aggressive body position.

It's not the bike, it's the tyres. I've owned quite a few mountain bikes over the years (full rigid, hard tail, dually) and they were all fast on the road with 28mm slick tyres.

So pick the tyres that will suit the majority of your riding.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby ausFred » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:12 am

matt1986 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:48 am
Sorry to revive an old thread,
You got me..... Thought it was a current thread!

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby matt1986 » Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:57 am

ausFred wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:12 am
matt1986 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:48 am
Sorry to revive an old thread,
You got me..... Thought it was a current thread!
My bad! I do appreciate your thoughts though, it's an issue I've pondered for a while and basically reached the same conclusions as you, i.e. tyre choice accounts for more than anything else
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Re: Gravel bike

Postby ausFred » Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:06 pm

matt1986 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:57 am
ausFred wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:12 am
matt1986 wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:48 am
Sorry to revive an old thread,
You got me..... Thought it was a current thread!
My bad! I do appreciate your thoughts though, it's an issue I've pondered for a while and basically reached the same conclusions as you, i.e. tyre choice accounts for more than anything else

Nice bike by the way. I've gone the two bike route just for the fun of it.

I've got a Lynskey Cooper CX and a Ritchey Logic Disk. Love them both.

Enjoy your ride.

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Re: Gravel bike

Postby RonK » Wed Jun 02, 2021 3:05 pm

ausFred wrote:
Wed Jun 02, 2021 11:09 am
emilykostos wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:42 pm
My question is whether I will be much slower on the road on CX/gravel bike vs a road bike, given the tyres are not slick.

Emily :)
It's not the bike, it's the tyres. I've owned quite a few mountain bikes over the years (full rigid, hard tail, dually) and they were all fast on the road with 28mm slick tyres.

So pick the tyres that will suit the majority of your riding.
Quite so. I have just ordered a Canyon Grizl to do some gravel rides here and in NZ. But I'll be mostly riding on sealed surfaces in my local area so will replace the standard 45mm Schwalbe G-One Wild with 38mm GravelKing slicks, and fit 45mm Vittoria Terreno Zero for the gravel.
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