War on cars

[Shred11]

I think we need a wake up re “truth in advertising”.

1. Car ads always sell the fantasy that these cars will be driven on roads relatively uncluttered by other vehicles. The reality is that they’ll spend most of their time idling in traffic.

2. Busses are no longer crowded like that ad depicts. I live in a regional city. The only public transport is bus and it’s suffering a death of a thousand cuts. Last week, I caught the bus to the city at 8:35am on one of the main roads that traverses the city. 30 years ago, this bus would have been packed. Last week, including myself, there were three passengers.

[warthog1]

Ditto the buses here in Bendigo.
Hardly anyone outside of schoolkids on them.
Still, I am as guilty as anyone.
I have always hated the bus. Rode my bike to school even if I got there soaked for that reason.

[brumby33]

In my area of Sydney (inner West) since the Privatisation of Government buses through the corridors of Newtown, Transit Systems who now run it have included more peak services from Kingsgrove to City, Dulwich Hill to City, Canterbury to City to the point where there's just a line up of buses doing the same thing and it's pretty uncommon now to get anyone standing on a busy bus as there's just so many options, the people from Enmore Park to the City don't even need a timetable as there's buses turning up all the time and then you've also got the M30 which in a few days will be renumbered 430.
Due to increased traffic congestion during peak times, the time tables have also been lengthened to accommodate, I feel they went too far with this, especially during school holiday periods where the traffic is lower and it's easier to run very early but theres no difference with normal peak running and school holiday running as per timetabled services.

So given the initiative in trying to cater for the masses, it's not common to get any bus now that you're squeezed in like sardines, there might be one offs but it's now not that common.

The big test is going to be this light rail, already said to be a quarter of an hour slower than a bus from Randwick and I dare say that people will not want their X73/X74 & X77 to disappear, and if this light rail doesn't speed up, it will be the white elephant that it's already been accused of being. When I was at Randwick 3 years ago, it only took about 35 minutes to the City and that's with a crowded bus, but the light rail is taking about 10 minutes longer when it should've been a quicker mode as the Government wanted to reduce the number of buses but I really don't think they can....well not in the short term anyway and the light rail has proven to be less than reliable in it's early days.

The stacks of 691 buses to & from the Uni could still be needed if the students from UNSW shun the light rail.

The people in the East are spoilt with choice and will vote with their feet if a mode takes too long.

brumby33

[opik_bidin]

time to play car ad bingo

from USA streetsblog:
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/01/31/ ... -ad-bingo/



also love this comment: when N+1 is for cars, at least bikes don't have those long credits

Here's a good idea for a reality-based car commercial:

Man buys a brand new pickup truck which he really can't afford.
His wife doesn't talk to him for a month.
He never actually uses the bed in the pickup truck to, you know, carry stuff, except once.
He separates and divorces his wife, in part due to his habit of buying new cars about every other year.

True story besides. The man is my ex brother-in-law. The wife is my sister.

[Bunged Knee]

Don't motorists know that eating while driving are breaking the road rules?

Expect to get fines and demerit points for doing this distraction.

From dailymail rag

Don't eat and drive: How snacking at the wheel can land you a $600 fine and three demerit points under a little-known road rule

[Tim]

Don't motorists know that eating while driving are breaking the road rules?

What!!!
In days gone by I could juggle a hamburger, can of beer and a cigarette, all at once.
I've since dropped all these indulgences.
Other than the car.

[rowdyflat]

Yeah always amazed how many people who cant afford cars and caravans buy something new due to fantasy.

[opik_bidin]

Transurban being transurban, in USA, and it apply the strategy everywhere

1.making the project more expensive in billions each year
2. Lobbying and "donating" to officials
3. Revolving doors of giv staff becoming comp execs
4. Changing the contract process to kick out other bidders and competition
5. In the end, the tax payer and user pays a very high cost

Yet we still have people clamoring about how building more roads and widen will solbe congestion.

They need to be told that not only it wont solve congestion, they will have their money extorted.

Buildibg transit n bike lanes make more sense economically

https://www.marylandmatters.org/2020/02 ... nsparency/

Contractor’s road design creates unacceptable community impacts.

— Traffic studies predict unacceptable congestion on other roads.

— Lenders won’t finance the project or interest rates are too high.

— The state doesn’t agree to contract terms the contractor demands.

— Permits are denied, or have conditions that drive up costs.

— Lawsuits delay or block the project.

— Changes in state or federal laws or policies.

— Construction cost overruns.

— Unanticipated costs of repairs or maintenance.

It’s easy to foresee that there will be multiple setbacks of this sort in the course of a multibillion-dollar highway project. What will happen?

The governor has already demonstrated that when Transurban bluffs, he folds his hand. Transurban holds his political future hostage, and Maryland taxpayers will have to fork over the ransom.

[Comedian]

I watched this recently. I always thought rat running slowed the whole system - and clearly it probably does.

https://youtu.be/cALezV_Fwi0

[antigee]

I watched this recently. I always thought rat running slowed the whole system - and clearly it probably does.

https://youtu.be/cALezV_Fwi0

interesting thank you...it does miss out the point that if the speed limits were higher there would be better traffic flow and less congestion and of course less emissions ...I notice most of the rat runners in our local streets find that breaking the speed limit helps a lot and not slowing too much for stop (not giveway) lines improves throughput and eases their social conscience

[Comedian]

I watched this recently. I always thought rat running slowed the whole system - and clearly it probably does.

https://youtu.be/cALezV_Fwi0

interesting thank you...it does miss out the point that if the speed limits were higher there would be better traffic flow and less congestion and of course less emissions ...I notice most of the rat runners in our local streets find that breaking the speed limit helps a lot and not slowing too much for stop (not giveway) lines improves throughput and eases their social conscience

Interesting that they speed through your local streets.

I actually don't think they speed through mine but the speed limit is 50 in QLD which is actually really fast in a suburban street. The council BCC have no concept of "local streets" - well they do but they don't take any action to make them so. The only think they do act on is speeding so they put speed awareness signs up. Even if your local street is shipping 1200 cars and hour it's all good so long as they aren't speeding.

Of course stop/giveway signs are considered advisory.

What Brisbane really needs is a concept of "Local Streets" but it's not something that is even being discussed.. or if it is it is being drowned out by our elected officials chanting "Clean green and sustainable" followed by "Getting you home sooner in your car".

Read this and consider Braess Paradox.

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-new ... abled-cars

[mikesbytes]

In my area of Sydney (inner West) since the Privatisation of Government buses through the corridors of Newtown, Transit Systems who now run it have included more peak services from Kingsgrove to City, Dulwich Hill to City, Canterbury to City to the point where there's just a line up of buses doing the same thing and it's pretty uncommon now to get anyone standing on a busy bus as there's just so many options, the people from Enmore Park to the City don't even need a timetable as there's buses turning up all the time and then you've also got the M30 which in a few days will be renumbered 430.
Due to increased traffic congestion during peak times, the time tables have also been lengthened to accommodate, I feel they went too far with this, especially during school holiday periods where the traffic is lower and it's easier to run very early but theres no difference with normal peak running and school holiday running as per timetabled services.

So given the initiative in trying to cater for the masses, it's not common to get any bus now that you're squeezed in like sardines, there might be one offs but it's now not that common.

The big test is going to be this light rail, already said to be a quarter of an hour slower than a bus from Randwick and I dare say that people will not want their X73/X74 & X77 to disappear, and if this light rail doesn't speed up, it will be the white elephant that it's already been accused of being. When I was at Randwick 3 years ago, it only took about 35 minutes to the City and that's with a crowded bus, but the light rail is taking about 10 minutes longer when it should've been a quicker mode as the Government wanted to reduce the number of buses but I really don't think they can....well not in the short term anyway and the light rail has proven to be less than reliable in it's early days.

The stacks of 691 buses to & from the Uni could still be needed if the students from UNSW shun the light rail.

The people in the East are spoilt with choice and will vote with their feet if a mode takes too long.

brumby33

As you know public transport gets a lower priority than motorists. My local bus is the 422 and its a short walk from home to the bus stop but when I go to the city I cycle down to Sydenham train station and catch the train. I'm not aware of any plan to make the buses more efficient with bus lanes, even after WestConnex is completed.

In regards to the trams they would be quite a bit quicker if they were given priority traffic lights, where the light is automatically turned green as they approach. It's not just the wait time at the lights but the time consumed slowing down and/or speeding up. Trams on that route in the 1950's were considerably faster. However to do this would give the motoring public the perception that they were being held up, even though they would end up with about the same amount of green time anyway

[brumby33]

I often read Melbourne people complain about their trams being awfully slow albeit fairly reliable....but in reality, public transport wasn't supposed to be superfast, it has to make stops along the way to pick-up and set-down people so it's definitely not quick.
The 422 you mentioned, know it well, that run had changed a fair bit over the years being extended to Kogarah then just over a year ago they decided to send it down Missenden road, one of the most tiresome corridors in Sydney, but it's really not that hard to get off just before Missenden road and hop on a 423/26/28 or M30 into the City, they go through very regular.

As a people Mover, I think the Light rail is a good concept but as you say, it's got to be given priority...without that, it could become a white elephant...but i'm sure it'll all work out...it will have to.....too many votes on the line for it to not work.

Cheers

brumby33

[fat and old]

I often read Melbourne people complain about their trams being awfully slow albeit fairly reliable....but in reality, public transport wasn't supposed to be superfast, it has to make stops along the way to pick-up and set-down people so it's definitely not quick.
The 422 you mentioned, know it well, that run had changed a fair bit over the years being extended to Kogarah then just over a year ago they decided to send it down Missenden road, one of the most tiresome corridors in Sydney, but it's really not that hard to get off just before Missenden road and hop on a 423/26/28 or M30 into the City, they go through very regular.

As a people Mover, I think the Light rail is a good concept but as you say, it's got to be given priority...without that, it could become a white elephant...but i'm sure it'll all work out...it will have to.....too many votes on the line for it to not work.

Cheers

brumby33

I'm not sure how the Sydney tram tracks interact with other traffic.....separated totally, separated through signs and goodwill or just share the road? In Melb many of the older inner city lines are sharing traffic lanes with other vehicles, and there's no real way of giving them priority. As you get further out (or have later modified roads in the inner areas) and the tram can be separated completely there's priority. They'll still be around forever tho regardless. Who wants to drive into the city every day?

[brumby33]

I often read Melbourne people complain about their trams being awfully slow albeit fairly reliable....but in reality, public transport wasn't supposed to be superfast, it has to make stops along the way to pick-up and set-down people so it's definitely not quick.
The 422 you mentioned, know it well, that run had changed a fair bit over the years being extended to Kogarah then just over a year ago they decided to send it down Missenden road, one of the most tiresome corridors in Sydney, but it's really not that hard to get off just before Missenden road and hop on a 423/26/28 or M30 into the City, they go through very regular.

As a people Mover, I think the Light rail is a good concept but as you say, it's got to be given priority...without that, it could become a white elephant...but i'm sure it'll all work out...it will have to.....too many votes on the line for it to not work.

Cheers

brumby33

I'm not sure how the Sydney tram tracks interact with other traffic.....separated totally, separated through signs and goodwill or just share the road? In Melb many of the older inner city lines are sharing traffic lanes with other vehicles, and there's no real way of giving them priority. As you get further out (or have later modified roads in the inner areas) and the tram can be separated completely there's priority. They'll still be around forever tho regardless. Who wants to drive into the city every day?

F&O,

Down George street they share the road and have traffic signals to stop the light rail for East/West Traffic, then when it gets down to Central station, whilst it has to cross an intersection, it seems to have it's own dedicated corridor including station stop, then it winds itself around the other side of Central and up Devonshire street which used to be a traffic street for cars but now a corridor for the light rail and was the less steep of all roads heading east and I used to use to ride to Randwick on my way to work....now I think no bike can use this road...not sure...I haven't travelled on the light rail to the East yet but it's a mixed bag of shared roads and corridors...I think going along Anzac pde to Kingsford will be mostly shared road all the way.
It's actually a light rail system with 8 carriage sections so I guess it'd be ridiculous actually calling it a tram where most Trams in Melbourne are either 1 or 2 car sets.....usually.

cheers

brumby33

Sydney should never have given up it's tram system back in the early 60's.....I think it was actually a much wider service than Melbourne at the time...Newcastle did the same thing.

[Comedian]

I often read Melbourne people complain about their trams being awfully slow albeit fairly reliable....but in reality, public transport wasn't supposed to be superfast, it has to make stops along the way to pick-up and set-down people so it's definitely not quick.
The 422 you mentioned, know it well, that run had changed a fair bit over the years being extended to Kogarah then just over a year ago they decided to send it down Missenden road, one of the most tiresome corridors in Sydney, but it's really not that hard to get off just before Missenden road and hop on a 423/26/28 or M30 into the City, they go through very regular.

As a people Mover, I think the Light rail is a good concept but as you say, it's got to be given priority...without that, it could become a white elephant...but i'm sure it'll all work out...it will have to.....too many votes on the line for it to not work.

Cheers

brumby33

I'm not sure how the Sydney tram tracks interact with other traffic.....separated totally, separated through signs and goodwill or just share the road? In Melb many of the older inner city lines are sharing traffic lanes with other vehicles, and there's no real way of giving them priority. As you get further out (or have later modified roads in the inner areas) and the tram can be separated completely there's priority. They'll still be around forever tho regardless. Who wants to drive into the city every day?

When Brisbane had trams there were some spots like MEL where there were two lanes in the middle devoted to trams. When we resumed them they were given back to the mighty tram.

I often wonder what would have happened if they had been kept as divided cycleways. Unlike our current bike network which has to exist on floodways these could have been direct, fast, and relatively flat. Which is what Brisbane cycling desperately needs.

Does that happen in MEL?

[Ross]

Didn't think this warranted a thread of it's own

Does owning a car hurt your health?

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/he ... ur-health/

Because of mounting congestion, Beijing has limited the number of new car permits it issues to 240,000 a year since 2011. Those permits are issued in a monthly lottery with more than 50 losers for every winner – and that, as researchers from the University of California Berkeley, Renmin University in China and the Beijing Transport Institute recently reported in the British Medical Journal, provides an elegant natural experiment on the health effects of car ownership.

Led by Berkeley economist Michael Anderson, the researchers followed 180 permit winners and 757 losers for roughly five years, and looked for differences caused by the acquisition of a car.

“The randomization of the lottery is what gives us confidence,” Anderson explained in a statement. “We know that the winners should be comparable to the losers on all attributes other than car ownership.”

Not surprisingly, the winners took 2.9 fewer rides a week on Beijing’s dense public-transit network, representing a 45-per-cent drop in usage. They also spent 24.2 fewer minutes each day day walking or biking than the non-winners, a 54-per-cent drop.

You’d expect these behaviour changes to have health impacts. Over all, the winners gained an average of just more than two kilograms, a difference that was not statistically significant. But the effects were more obvious when looking only at winners aged 50 or older: They gained an average of 10.3 kilograms, a statistically significant and worrisome increase.

The results are consistent with a stack of previous studies that have found that car owners tend to weigh more than non-owners. The New Zealand census data, which were published in the International Journal of Epidemiology, make an even stronger case, since they link commuting mode to the most unambiguous health indicator possible: death.

But the randomized assignment of cars in Anderson’s Beijing cohort finally shows that it’s the car itself, not simply being the type of person who wants a car, that influences behaviour and ultimately health.

[Ross]

If only those pesky cycllists would stop going through red lights...
https://twitter.com/rorymeakin/status/1 ... 42785?s=20

[mikesbytes]

If only those pesky cycllists would stop going through red lights...
https://twitter.com/rorymeakin/status/1 ... 42785?s=20

Lemmings!!!!

I'm betting the first motorist had brain fade and the rest followed not realising that hadn't changed to red

[fat and old]

When Brisbane had trams there were some spots like MEL where there were two lanes in the middle devoted to trams. When we resumed them they were given back to the mighty tram.

I often wonder what would have happened if they had been kept as divided cycleways. Unlike our current bike network which has to exist on floodways these could have been direct, fast, and relatively flat. Which is what Brisbane cycling desperately needs.

Does that happen in MEL?

I'm not sure what you mean tbh. Abandoned tram corridors being given over to cycles/shard paths? The only ones I know of are in Docklands (given to peds, dedicated cycle path adjacent and always was) and a section around Domain Rd due to Metro tunnel works (still in ground, apparently to be reused post construction). I'm sure there's lots more esp. from the cable days but I have no idea where.

We have an excellent "ring path" around the inner north that was a rail line (Inner Rail trail), and another path that follows the abandoned Kew/Ashburton rail line mostly (Anniversary Trail) with some on road bits in the middle. Of course the Lilydale to Warburton line is now an excellent rail trail. The old St. Kilda rail line bridge over the Yarra is now a shared path. If you count new rail, there's an adjacent shared path built whenever the lines have been extended such as the Mernda line or modified like the Ringwood line; much the same as when a new Fwy or Tollway is built. Most of the new rail crossing removal works that involve O/H rail have a shared path built beneath as well.

[antigee]

I often read Melbourne people complain about their trams being awfully slow albeit fairly reliable....but in reality, public transport wasn't supposed to be superfast, it has to make stops along the way to pick-up and set-down people so it's definitely not quick.
The 422 you mentioned, know it well, that run had changed a fair bit over the years being extended to Kogarah then just over a year ago they decided to send it down Missenden road, one of the most tiresome corridors in Sydney, but it's really not that hard to get off just before Missenden road and hop on a 423/26/28 or M30 into the City, they go through very regular.

As a people Mover, I think the Light rail is a good concept but as you say, it's got to be given priority...without that, it could become a white elephant...but i'm sure it'll all work out...it will have to.....too many votes on the line for it to not work.

Cheers

brumby33

I'm not sure how the Sydney tram tracks interact with other traffic.....separated totally, separated through signs and goodwill or just share the road? In Melb many of the older inner city lines are sharing traffic lanes with other vehicles, and there's no real way of giving them priority. As you get further out (or have later modified roads in the inner areas) and the tram can be separated completely there's priority. They'll still be around forever tho regardless. Who wants to drive into the city every day?

"In Melb many of the older inner city lines are sharing traffic lanes with other vehicles, and there's no real way of giving them priority

one politically difficult solution is removing or further restricting on street parking - one service near me I'll use when the morning into/ morning out of city 2hour long clearways are in force as service runs much better at these times despite high volumes of cars and right turning rat runners

Same issue which is still preventing quality cycle lanes on Sydney Rd and St Kilda Rd

incidentally at one time a centre cycle lane was proposed for St Kilda rd by VicRoads but (rightly) was considered an unsafe proposal by many:
https://www.theage.com.au/national/vict ... vkn50.html


pretty sure there must be others but only true centre median shared path I know of in Melbourne is on North Rd, Clayton and consensus over in the commuting section is that it is best avoided....has multiple vehicle crossing points with slip lanes that allow vehicles to maintain near the 70kmhr speed limit when leaving North rd to turning across the median and the multiple lanes and high speeds encourage hard acceleration by drivers to cross in front of oncoming traffic to reach the cross overs and be surprised to have a cyclist square on in front of them

[fat and old]

one politically difficult solution is removing or further restricting on street parking - one service near me I'll use when the morning into/ morning out of city 2hour long clearways are in force as service runs much better at these times despite high volumes of cars and right turning rat runners

Even removing parking won't work in streets like Sydney Rd. Sure, you can ban right turns along side streets, but you still have to provide right turning facilities at some major intersections...say Moreland Rd for instance. With only one lane next to the tram it's not practicable at all. That's the sort of scenario I was getting at. The only way to have tram priority and a decent cycle lane in Sydney Rd is to remove cars completely. Even then, given the width of the street it would take less than 5 years for the cyclists to be "the problem" for peds, much the same as Swanston St, CBD. I think doing what the inner councils are....utilising local streets as collectors and making them unpalatable for cars (think Canning St, or the proposed Napier St project, or even Southbank Blvd now) is a better bet than trying to take over major strip areas if transport is the intent.

pretty sure there must be others but only true centre median shared path I know of in Melbourne is on North Rd, Clayton

Never seen the St Georges Rd path?

https://www.bicyclenetwork.com.au/newsr ... ew-future/

5th busiest path in Australia Major, very very busy cycle (really a shared) path from Keon Park (off road) to the bridge over the Merri Creek. Median path much like North Rd, follows the pipe track in from Yan Yean. 4 crossings, but these are low speed and speed humped. Tram tracks each side. Same median set up north of Reservoir Station. That whole section is a strava segment "Death in four places"

St Kilda Rd will eventually be a cycle path in the centre lanes. Just a matter of time.

[Thoglette]

Sydney should never have given up it's tram system back in the early 60's.....I think it was actually a much wider service than Melbourne at the time...Newcastle did the same thing.

Not kidding. At peak it had 1600 odd cars (vs 500 in MEL today) and moved 405 million passenger journeys in 1945, more than twice what Mel does today and with about 1/3 of the population.

[opik_bidin]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelOReil ... 5371121664
Australia's federal government did not endorse the declaration, preferring to consider the proposals when they are put to the United Nations for discussion this year before what could be a binding vote, reports @juliepower

-------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to the replies to this

https://twitter.com/australian/status/1 ... 7461709824
Nationals leader Michael McCormack says “lower travel speeds can ­result in lower emissions from ­vehicles”, and the Morrison government supports slowing down cars in areas with “high volumes” of pedestrians, ­cyclists and aged or frail people. #auspol

-------------------------------------
Its democracy after all, the government says what the population says, although they are wrong

[brumby33]

Sydney should never have given up it's tram system back in the early 60's.....I think it was actually a much wider service than Melbourne at the time...Newcastle did the same thing.

Not kidding. At peak it had 1600 odd cars (vs 500 in MEL today) and moved 405 million passenger journeys in 1945, more than twice what Mel does today and with about 1/3 of the population.

Wow Thoglette, I didn't know it was that much bigger, quite a difference isn't it, triple the amount of cars, I know some of the bus depots I've worked out of were once working tram depots, even the site where the Opera House now sits was actually a tram depot.
What irks me about this is Sydney had such a massive transit system, the pollies ripped it all up to replace them with buses and now they want rail in the city once again....and it's costing Billions....there's just no accountability at all from previous Governments......and to rub salt right into the wound, the light rail vehicles are now all made overseas, not in Australia.
Remember the Banana republic that Paul Keating spoke about....we are getting to that status very quickly.

brumby33