Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

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Comedian
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Re: Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Comedian » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:54 pm

uart wrote:
Comedian wrote: This may be meandering off topic somewhat.. but further.. re aussies hating on cyclists. It's one of the few (only?) outgroups you can physically endanger or kill without fear of any meaningful reprisal.

Since the 1m law change in QLD (or at least since around the time it came in) I've seen the incidence of "shaving" and generally threatening driving go from occasional to the new normal. In general I believe this to be a deliberate behaviour. Yet, report these to the police and unless you happen to get a cycling cop they advocate for the driver and won't act. Further we've seen people with trucks hit and kill cyclists and say "I saw him but thought I missed him. Sorry". As far as our judicial system is concerned that seems to be adequate. I think if would be hard to explain to someone from outside. Oh well.
You know there's actually historical precedence for what you're saying there Comedian. There's pretty much a perfect analogy from last century in terms of the reluctance of police to pursue rape charges in cases where a prostitute was raped. While things have obviously changed in this regard due to pressure from the women's movement, I'm pretty sure it was something of a poorly kept secret at the time.

If you look at the thinking behind these two things you can see that it's pretty much the same in each case. In the case of the rape of a prostitute, the police thinking would have been that their virtue is so low that it's not really be worth protecting. In the case of cyclists it's probably along the lines that their regard for their own safety is so low (due to outgrouping and distorted perceived risk) that their safety is not really worth protecting.
In a couple of my discussions with police after making a report.. the subtext was very firmly.. "You knew the risks of cycling on this road - and you still chose to do it. Don't expect us to jump now that you've had a bad time."

So yes- I really do agree with your assertion. You chose to cycle - you were asking for it!

human909
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby human909 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:53 pm

Without a doubt. This attitude is literally repeated by many people and without a doubt many police share the same views. Anologies of riding a bicycle as like swimming with sharks are repeated often. Not only does it show victim blaming of cyclists but it also shows raw acceptance of dangerous and aggressive driving.

If sharks can be used as an analogy of a motor vehicle on our roads then we clearly have a problem.

fat and old
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:50 am

It’s not just the authorities that have a fatalistic outlook. Just now, I’m on a job in Camberwell and 3 schoolgirls ride past on the footpath. Joking about whether they’ll be hit by a car easier on the footpath or using the road. Lower secondary age, maybe 14-16.

tpcycle
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby tpcycle » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:02 pm

Isn't it illegal for them to ride on the footpath in Victoria? Bloody scofflaws are asking for it. :roll:

fat and old
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:27 pm

They're schoolgirls. Sheesh, who cares if they on the path?

human909
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby human909 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:15 am

Just a fun (or not so fun) fact...

By some estimates, as many as 18,000 people die every year as a result of medical error, while 50,000 people suffer a permanent injury.

Think about that one when you hear about doctors trying to tell cyclists they must wear helmets.

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Sun Sep 01, 2019 5:41 pm

https://www.lavelocita.cc/opinion-page/ ... elmet-laws
Perdant’s has some scientific backing in that claim. The Centre for Research and Australian Psychology (CRAP) have been researching the effects of MHL debate on the brains of cyclists. Head Researcher, Antoine Schianto has noticed a trend:

“We’ve been monitoring a sample of 100 Australian Cyclists and there’s a strong correlation between brain size and time spent arguing about MHL. Those who argue more, have an over-developed fluid layer around the brain. The first case was noted in 1996 and has since been named Homer Simpson Syndrome.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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MichaelB
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby MichaelB » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:18 am

fat and old wrote:https://www.lavelocita.cc/opinion-page/ ... elmet-laws
Perdant’s has some scientific backing in that claim. The Centre for Research and Australian Psychology (CRAP) have been researching the effects of MHL debate on the brains of cyclists. Head Researcher, Antoine Schianto has noticed a trend:

“We’ve been monitoring a sample of 100 Australian Cyclists and there’s a strong correlation between brain size and time spent arguing about MHL. Those who argue more, have an over-developed fluid layer around the brain. The first case was noted in 1996 and has since been named Homer Simpson Syndrome.”

:lol: :lol: :lol:
LMAO !!!!

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MichaelB
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:37 am

Gee, it's been quiet here lately, so thought I'd get some action

wearing a helmet is correlated with a reduction in injury severity.

Two studies, one from USA and another from UK, both showed helmets reduced time in hospital and injury.


Q.E.D.

Have a nice day

vitellan
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby vitellan » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:53 am

I am sure you would end up with the same result if you were wearing a helmet in a car.
A sumo suit would help as well.
Mandatory sumo suit for bike riders next?

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby warthog1 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:33 am

MichaelB wrote:Gee, it's been quiet here lately, so thought I'd get some action

wearing a helmet is correlated with a reduction in injury severity.

Two studies, one from USA and another from UK, both showed helmets reduced time in hospital and injury.


Q.E.D.

Have a nice day
I couldn't be bothered reading it sorry.
Freedom of choice and compulsion is the issue.
Dogs are the best people :wink:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:14 pm

warthog1 wrote:Freedom of choice and compulsion is the issue.
Same here. But you know that isn't the way this goes :lol:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby tpcycle » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:14 pm

MichaelB wrote: Q.E.D.
Q.E.D. simply riding a bicycle in Australia is done by very few and is about the worst place in the world to do it? Or is there some other correlation since this is the MHL thread not the H thread.

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MichaelB
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:22 pm

fat and old wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Freedom of choice and compulsion is the issue.
Same here. But you know that isn't the way this goes :lol:
Nailed it !! :wink:

Oh, and tpcycle - huh :?:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby warthog1 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:28 pm

fat and old wrote:
warthog1 wrote:Freedom of choice and compulsion is the issue.
Same here. But you know that isn't the way this goes :lol:
:lol:
Dogs are the best people :wink:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:32 pm

QED indeed!!! :lol:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby bychosis » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:51 pm

The recent fatality after a magpie dive bomb wasn’t prevented by his helmet unfortunately. According to the canberra study if he hadn’t worn a helmet he may not have been swooped as well. Maybe we should all avoid helmets during swooping season?
bychosis (bahy-koh-sis): A mental disorder of delusions indicating impaired contact with a reality of no bicycles.

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MichaelB
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby MichaelB » Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:54 pm

bychosis wrote:...
According to the canberra study if he hadn’t worn a helmet he may not have been swooped as well. Maybe we should all avoid helmets during swooping season?
Don’t know the study that you are referring to, but I call it absolute BS and a low way to get an opinion across

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Thoglette
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Thoglette » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:16 pm

warthog1 wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Q.E.D.
I couldn't be bothered reading it sorry.
Neither did CyclingTips, apparently'

One doesn't need to get beyond the abstract to dismiss one and go "meh" about the other.

They both bundle all cyclists up into one pot and completely ignore known factors (e.g. type of riding, see Zeegers 2015)

They both look at post-admission data (i.e. once someone has had a hospital grade injury) : the UK study at least recognises this and limits its claims to: helmets do work. It's not a bad paper.

The US study looked at head and neck injury data for cyclists and tried to correlate it to helmet use,gender, age and race. And then declare findings that are apparently applicable to the general population. That this one got accepted for publishing boggles my mind.
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:49 pm

Thoglette wrote: helmets do work
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:lol:

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Thoglette
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Thoglette » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:53 pm

fat and old wrote:
Thoglette wrote: helmets do work
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:lol:
Well, if you'd started at the beginning of this thread you'd've gotten to Page 3 soon enough. And wouldn't have had to wait a decade for page 408 :mrgreen:
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Cheesewheel » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:28 pm

fat and old wrote:
Thoglette wrote: helmets do work
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:lol:
But they do work ... 100% in fact ... for what is an easily preventable unfortunate event .... nanely receiving a fine for not wearing a helmet. 8)
Go!Run!GAH!

fat and old
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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby fat and old » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:53 pm

Thoglette wrote:
fat and old wrote:
Thoglette wrote: helmets do work
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

:lol:
Well, if you'd started at the beginning of this thread you'd've gotten to Page 3 soon enough. And wouldn't have had to wait a decade for page 408 :mrgreen:
I only liven up every ten years or so. :lol:

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby tpcycle » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:20 pm

MichaelB wrote:Oh, and tpcycle - huh :?:
I thought your QED was shorthand for the standard specious leap of logic:-

Study says bicycle helmets reduce injury -> bicycle helmets are good -> everyone should wear one -> bicycle helmet laws are good.

So I just flipped it around a bit. Yeah I know MHLs don't discourage cycling and Australia is an absolute cyclist's paradise.

Oh and whether or not the Canberra "study" is BS here it is for your viewing pleasure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wHreVKgOT4

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Re: Mandatory Helmet Laws & stuff (MHL discussion)

Postby Philistine » Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:18 am

warthog1 wrote: Freedom of choice and compulsion is the issue.
408 pages of posts summed up in one eight word sentence.

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