Punneet Puneet extradition status

[Scott_C]

It has to be an offence in both countries, so the real issue is what is the equivalent offence in India, which probably doesn't have dangerous driving charges.

In the absence of a dangerous driving charge I would expect that the equivalent offence would be manslaughter which should carry a sufficient sentence.

[find_bruce]

It has to be an offence in both countries, so the real issue is what is the equivalent offence in India, which probably doesn't have dangerous driving charges.

In the absence of a dangerous driving charge I would expect that the equivalent offence would be manslaughter which should carry a sufficient sentence.

I could go into the Scots law background of culpable homicide & the fascinating question about how it made its way into the law of English colonies, but yes its essentially manslaughter. I would agree with you, but (1) I know little about the law of India & (2) I am not the one being paid to find some creative reason why he shouldn't be shipped back to Aus to face the consequences of his drunken killing

[ValleyForge]

It has to be an offence in both countries, so the real issue is what is the equivalent offence in India, which probably doesn't have dangerous driving charges.

In the absence of a dangerous driving charge I would expect that the equivalent offence would be manslaughter which should carry a sufficient sentence.

I could go into the Scots law background of culpable homicide & the fascinating question about how it made its way into the law of English colonies, but yes its essentially manslaughter. I would agree with you, but (1) I know little about the law of India & (2) I am not the one being paid to find some creative reason why he shouldn't be shipped back to Aus to face the consequences of his drunken killing

(3) And keep a straight face

[ColinOldnCranky]

The "one year minimum sentence" as posited by the lawyer may hold water. I have found a reference to this in the treaty but qualified as "proposed". Mandatory sentences of ANY length are a rare thing in Oz.

However I would find it hard to accept that it is that cut and dry. Otherwise they could have stopped proceedings six years ago.

Proposed extradition process
6.10 The Extradition Treaty will apply to Australian and Indian nationals who are wanted for prosecution, or for the imposition or enforcement of a sentence, in relation to sentences with a minimum punishment of at least one year in jail.10
Extradition Treaty between Australia and The Republic of India...

In terms of Victoria its a BS response - culpable driving causing death has a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison, dangerous driving causing death carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, dangerous driving causing serious injury a max of 5 years. Similarly improper use of a foreign travel document carries a maximum penalty of 10 years.

It has to be an offence in both countries, so the real issue is what is the equivalent offence in India, which probably doesn't have dangerous driving charges.

You've missed the salient limit. It is a MINIMUM of 1 year, the maximum term is not mentioned. Unless a judge is mandated to give a custodial sentence then almost all offences carry a minimum of zero.

[find_bruce]

You've missed the salient limit. It is a MINIMUM of 1 year, the maximum term is not mentioned. Unless a judge is mandated to give a custodial sentence then almost all offences carry a minimum of zero.

Come on Colin, I thought you were better than relying upon some bureaucrat's document. What the extradition treaty actually says is

1. For the purposes of this Treaty, extraditable offences are offences, however described, which are punishable under the laws of both Contracting States by imprisonment for a maximum period of at least one year or by a more severe penalty.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Come on Colin, I thought you were better than relying upon some bureaucrat's document. What the extradition treaty actually says is

1. For the purposes of this Treaty, extraditable offences are offences, however described, which are punishable under the laws of both Contracting States by imprisonment for a maximum period of at least one year or by a more severe penalty.

I am relieved as I'm sure that he has committed several offences that would meet the test in both countries.

I did make a couple of attempts to find the actual enforceable legislation but all I found was a preliminary document preceding it by a little at https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... +Indian%22
which stated under a heading "Proposed Extradition Process" the following:

6.10 The Extradition Treaty will apply to Australian and Indian nationals who are wanted for prosecution, or for the imposition or enforcement of a sentence, in relation to sentences with a minimum punishment of at least one year in jail.

Your's makes sense, mine never did. Good luck to Puneets lawyer having to make more vacuous arguments that hold no water.

[ColinOldnCranky]

I note some media in the last four days reporting that the Victorian State Attorney General and the Office of Public Prosecutions are taking some steps to bring this long drawn out process to a quick conclusion. Or at least that is my best guess as it is all behind a pay wall,

Does anyone know what is happening?

(FYI the next SCHEDULED court appearance is 15th July. These scheduled dates tend to be extended however.)

[outnabike]

I read a section in the H Vic Herald Sun on the old "how about getting on with this" to India a week ago.

Just seemed to be the tired old grist for the mill comments that a journo printed to fill a column. But it keeps the issue in the thoughts of us all so I don't mind....Just seems ineffectual.

[ValleyForge]

Would be good if there was a Victorian election coming up....

[ColinOldnCranky]

Would be good if there was a Victorian election coming up....

Totally unfair.

It was the Victorian state government that galvanised the Indian authorities to action many years ago. And ever since appears to me to have continued to bring to bear whatever pressure they can. The fact that it has proven so far to be ineffectual is not of their doing, that is just the way it is. There is little that even a national government can do let alone a state government to affect the legal process in another country other than, sometimes, to keep the process going.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Breaking news

It's behind a pay wall but from what can be seen Puneet's lawyers are saying that Puneet is willing to go to Australia in exchange for a "lenient sentence" which, I gather.is two years.

It looks to me that they are rolling over. Fingers crossed but surely a good sign on their expectations of a final decision not favorable to their client.

These statements will have been to the media, not in court. Last I read, his next scheduled and most recent of many MANY final court appearances is the 15th of this month. Be mindful however that almost all scheduled court dates in the past have been delayed to a later date.

[ColinOldnCranky]

From Hit run driver seeks short sentence today.

Hit-run driver Puneet seeks short sentence

The lawyer for hit-run driver Puneet Puneet, who killed a student in Melbourne in 2008 before fleeing to India, says his client would return to face justice if Victorian authorities guaranteed a maximum two-year jail term. Speaking from Delhi, lawyer Kanhaiya Kumar Singhal told The Herald Sun that Puneet was "ready to face justice" "Let government of Australia give us an offer that he will be sentenced to a maximum of two years and surety of his safe life in jail. He will immediately surrender," Mr Singhal said. Puneet fled Australia on a friend's passport after pleading guilty to culpable driving causing the death of student Dean Hofstee in Melbourne in 2008 while driving drunk at 150km/h. He was arrested in India eight years later on his wedding day and has since attended dozens of extradition hearings to determine if he should be sent back to Australia. Mr Singhal said Puneet was concerned he would not be given due justice in Australia and had been told in 2008 he would be given a sentence of 20 to 30 years. "Even murderers don't get such a sentence," the lawyer said. In response to Mr Singhal's request, Victoria's Acting Attorney-General Gavin Jennings told the Herald Sun that Victoria's courts would decide on the appropriate punishment. "Puneet Puneet needs to return to Victoria to face the consequences of his actions, and we won't rest until justice is served," he said. Puneet is due to face court again in Delhi on July 15. Australian Associated Press

The lawyer for hit-run driver Puneet Puneet, who killed a student in Melbourne in 2008 before fleeing to India, says his client would return to face justice if Victorian authorities guaranteed a maximum two-year jail term.

Speaking from Delhi, lawyer Kanhaiya Kumar Singhal told The Herald Sun that Puneet was "ready to face justice"

"Let government of Australia give us an offer that he will be sentenced to a maximum of two years and surety of his safe life in jail. He will immediately surrender," Mr Singhal said.

Puneet fled Australia on a friend's passport after pleading guilty to culpable driving causing the death of student Dean Hofstee in Melbourne in 2008 while driving drunk at 150km/h.

He was arrested in India eight years later on his wedding day and has since attended dozens of extradition hearings to determine if he should be sent back to Australia.

Mr Singhal said Puneet was concerned he would not be given due justice in Australia and had been told in 2008 he would be given a sentence of 20 to 30 years.

"Even murderers don't get such a sentence," the lawyer said.

In response to Mr Singhal's request, Victoria's Acting Attorney-General Gavin Jennings told the Herald Sun that Victoria's courts would decide on the appropriate punishment.

"Puneet Puneet needs to return to Victoria to face the consequences of his actions, and we won't rest until justice is served," he said.

Puneet is due to face court again in Delhi on July 15.
Australian Associated Press

[Cheesewheel]

From Hit run driver seeks short sentence today.

Hit-run driver Puneet seeks short sentence

The lawyer for hit-run driver Puneet Puneet, who killed a student in Melbourne in 2008 before fleeing to India, says his client would return to face justice if Victorian authorities guaranteed a maximum two-year jail term. Speaking from Delhi, lawyer Kanhaiya Kumar Singhal told The Herald Sun that Puneet was "ready to face justice" "Let government of Australia give us an offer that he will be sentenced to a maximum of two years and surety of his safe life in jail. He will immediately surrender," Mr Singhal said. Puneet fled Australia on a friend's passport after pleading guilty to culpable driving causing the death of student Dean Hofstee in Melbourne in 2008 while driving drunk at 150km/h. He was arrested in India eight years later on his wedding day and has since attended dozens of extradition hearings to determine if he should be sent back to Australia. Mr Singhal said Puneet was concerned he would not be given due justice in Australia and had been told in 2008 he would be given a sentence of 20 to 30 years. "Even murderers don't get such a sentence," the lawyer said. In response to Mr Singhal's request, Victoria's Acting Attorney-General Gavin Jennings told the Herald Sun that Victoria's courts would decide on the appropriate punishment. "Puneet Puneet needs to return to Victoria to face the consequences of his actions, and we won't rest until justice is served," he said. Puneet is due to face court again in Delhi on July 15. Australian Associated Press

The lawyer for hit-run driver Puneet Puneet, who killed a student in Melbourne in 2008 before fleeing to India, says his client would return to face justice if Victorian authorities guaranteed a maximum two-year jail term.

Speaking from Delhi, lawyer Kanhaiya Kumar Singhal told The Herald Sun that Puneet was "ready to face justice"

"Let government of Australia give us an offer that he will be sentenced to a maximum of two years and surety of his safe life in jail. He will immediately surrender," Mr Singhal said.

Puneet fled Australia on a friend's passport after pleading guilty to culpable driving causing the death of student Dean Hofstee in Melbourne in 2008 while driving drunk at 150km/h.

He was arrested in India eight years later on his wedding day and has since attended dozens of extradition hearings to determine if he should be sent back to Australia.

Mr Singhal said Puneet was concerned he would not be given due justice in Australia and had been told in 2008 he would be given a sentence of 20 to 30 years.

"Even murderers don't get such a sentence," the lawyer said.

In response to Mr Singhal's request, Victoria's Acting Attorney-General Gavin Jennings told the Herald Sun that Victoria's courts would decide on the appropriate punishment.

"Puneet Puneet needs to return to Victoria to face the consequences of his actions, and we won't rest until justice is served," he said.

Puneet is due to face court again in Delhi on July 15.
Australian Associated Press

Reads like an onion article.
The obvious thing here is that he is concerned about facing due justice rather than a lack of it.

[mikesbytes]

What crimes has he committed?
- Dangerous driving resulting in death and other motoring offences
- Acquiring a passport thru deception
- Breaking bail conditions ???
- Exiting the country using another passport

Are some of those federal crimes? If so the Vic Govt to set a max of 2 years then the Fed Govt does their bit

[outnabike]

They have put the value of the slain Australian at two years of Punnets time, let alone the injuries to the second victim.

I would have thought that there-in lies an admission of guilt. I reckon they have thrown in the towel and will now extend his stay in India to a bargaining campaign. Virtually a contempt of Australian courts.

All the rest is arrogant bargaining for a nice soft pillow, and top shelf food. Any prisoner that looks at him sideways will be considered to have broken the "surety" bit in the sentence.
I am surprise he doesn't include a full time doctor to aid with has minimum of a dozen psycho ailments.

[ColinOldnCranky]

They have put the value of the slain Australian at two years of Punnets time, let alone the injuries to the second victim.

I would have thought that there-in lies an admission of guilt. I reckon they have thrown in the towel and will now extend his stay in India to a bargaining campaign. Virtually a contempt of Australian courts.

All the rest is arrogant bargaining for a nice soft pillow, and top shelf food. Any prisoner that looks at him sideways will be considered to have broken the "surety" bit in the sentence.
I am surprise he doesn't include a full time doctor to aid with has minimum of a dozen psycho ailments.

The trial has already been and gone in which he admitted guilt.

So no admission of guilt is required anyway. He now has to answer to a magistrate (hardly going to inject any bias or racism in his sentencing open to appeal) and not a jury despite his pleas over a lengthy period that he will not get a fair trial in racist Australia.

Until MikesBytes post above I had not thought about further charges or issues under Federal jurisdiction but I guess that there is no choice on some of those Mike listed but to charge him with further offences. Sob sob.

[ColinOldnCranky]

An intriguing comment I came across this afternoon taken from AAP new agency...

Judge Kaur retorted by calling for a special hearing today to hear the full detail of the defence's claims over Puneet's mental health, and potentially offer a decision in the case.

What? Did they in fact have a hearing today/yesterday?

A hearing with the possibility of FINALLY handing down a decision on whether to extradite or not? I haven't seen any other references to it and the next court appearance is still being reported as the 15th.

Curious.

[antigee]

An intriguing comment I came across this afternoon taken from AAP new agency...

Judge Kaur retorted by calling for a special hearing today to hear the full detail of the defence's claims over Puneet's mental health, and potentially offer a decision in the case.

What? Did they in fact have a hearing today/yesterday?

A hearing with the possibility of FINALLY handing down a decision on whether to extradite or not? I haven't seen any other references to it and the next court appearance is still being reported as the 15th.

Curious.

just read something similar at end of a current update story starting with the recent demand for max 2yrs......reckon its a cut and paste to bulk out the story as the lengthy para that ends with "Judge Kaur retorted"....starts...."During a court hearing last year, his lawyers argued Puneet was not mentally competent to be the subject of an extradition decision when the defendant began making high-pitched noises and calling for his uncle......

[madmacca]

An intriguing comment I came across this afternoon taken from AAP new agency...

Judge Kaur retorted by calling for a special hearing today to hear the full detail of the defence's claims over Puneet's mental health, and potentially offer a decision in the case.

What? Did they in fact have a hearing today/yesterday?

A hearing with the possibility of FINALLY handing down a decision on whether to extradite or not? I haven't seen any other references to it and the next court appearance is still being reported as the 15th.

Curious.

just read something similar at end of a current update story starting with the recent demand for max 2yrs......reckon its a cut and paste to bulk out the story as the lengthy para that ends with "Judge Kaur retorted"....starts...."During a court hearing last year, his lawyers argued Puneet was not mentally competent to be the subject of an extradition decision when the defendant began making high-pitched noises and calling for his uncle......

The defendant in this case has forgotten the recommended action of putting his underpants on his head and pencils up his nostrils BEFORE saying "wibble".

[Ross]

https://amp.news.com.au/news/national/d ... 3cf33d689b

[mikesbytes]

https://amp.news.com.au/news/national/d ... 3cf33d689b

driving 150km/h and had a blood alcohol reading of 0.165

Is that classified as an accident?

[Cheesewheel]

https://amp.news.com.au/news/national/d ... 3cf33d689b

The subtext to the article seems to be "Sorry, the australian legal system doesn't work like that"

[mikesbytes]

Perhaps this was the strategy all along, tie it up for an extended amount of time and then bargain for a deal based on the ability to keep it tied up forever

What's the penalty for jumping bail?

[Cheesewheel]

It will be interesting to see how the courts deal with this one. The only drawn out overseas extradition cases I can think of is the christopher "chase the" skase saga, which turned out to be a fizzer for the australian powers that be ... no doubt puneets lawyer has taken a few pages from that text book case, but puneet doesn't appear to have comparable resources nor the nous to have fled to a country that doesn't have an extradition treaty with australia.

[ColinOldnCranky]

Perhaps this was the strategy all along, tie it up for an extended amount of time and then bargain for a deal based on the ability to keep it tied up forever

From past observations it seldom works though. Extradition requests are usually drawn out if the party resists so no-one makes a request of another country unless they are prepared for a long haul.

However it does seem as though Puneet has been able to draw it out with little legal argument presented. It has been five years which is not an unheard of length of time.